XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

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fineshot1
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XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

Anyone have any of these power supplies go south on you?

Just seems like a el-cheapo(design wise) switching power supply and moto wants approx $500
each to replace them if they burn up.

Anyone come up with a better replacement that will fit into the consolette case?
fineshot1
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techtonics
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by techtonics »

you can get the same power supply from a computer repair place. They used to have the exact "Sparkle Power" part number on them and I used to be able to get them for $30 shipped I just had to un-solder the computer motherboard cables and solder in the consolette leads. I have also found a "crowbar" circuit that sometimes trips on these guys. Unplug and let sit for at least 5 min and plug it back in.
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K8TEK
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by K8TEK »

List on that part is $625.80
K8TEK::Tim
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

Thanks guys,

techtonics - the supply in my consolette burnt up so nothing tripped and i am not happy with the
way these are poorly designed supplies. We took the burnt up one apart and the electrolytic caps
are only rated at 10V and not the normal 16V or 24V. This is really an adapted pc power supply.

I think I may order one of these or similar below from tessco and it will fit inside the case and
can be wired up with little problem.

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayP ... ventPage=1

K8TEK - thanks for looking that up but I new that already. The $500 is what our moto contact
quoted us with our discount(some discount!).
fineshot1
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chartofmaryland
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by chartofmaryland »

http://www.duracomm.com/siteresources/a ... roduct=297

This is available directly from DuraComm or through your Tessco sales rep that can likely get you a Tessco PN for ordering.

It is sized to takeup just about the same footprint of the existing power supply and will keep up with XTL no matter the demand.

I would go with the SM-25 and you should have no issues. It appears the SM-1228 will do fine, but with 10A max continuous, if your XTL is a 40 watt V or U or is a 35 watt 800, then with those setups normally drawing 9.3-9.5 amps on TX it could be alittle hot in the ole cream box.

CoM
If the lights are out when you leave the station and then come on the second you key up, you know you have enough power.
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

chartofmaryland wrote:http://www.duracomm.com/siteresources/a ... roduct=297

This is available directly from DuraComm or through your Tessco sales rep that can likely get you a Tessco PN for ordering.

It is sized to takeup just about the same footprint of the existing power supply and will keep up with XTL no matter the demand.

I would go with the SM-25 and you should have no issues. It appears the SM-1228 will do fine, but with 10A max continuous, if your XTL is a 40 watt V or U or is a 35 watt 800, then with those setups normally drawing 9.3-9.5 amps on TX it could be a little hot in the ole cream box.

CoM
The SM-1228 specs have it listed at 25-28V - so no go on that one, and the SM-25 does look like a good choice however
in the spirit of all the cut backs going on I must do more with less and the SM-25 is about $100 more than the one
I pointed out so I'm gonna stick to that one but thanks for pointing those choices out anyway.
fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by RFguy »

Does the HPN4005 only have 12 volt output to the consolette? or is there other voltages/signals to the radio?
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

RFguy wrote:Does the HPN4005 only have 12 volt output to the consolette? or is there other voltages/signals to the radio?
There are two 12V leads from the supply, one for the radio and one for the tone remote control board.

They are both terminated with the proper connectors for the radio and control board and on the
supply end are soldered to the board.

Since the one I had burnt up I was not able to check it for other voltages but they are marked
on the Sparkle label as being present but there are no wires for them coming off the board
and I have no doc on the innards of this switching supply.
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

OK - i am bringing this thread back to life. The power supply below is a perfect replacement. It is
as if it were made to be installed inside the consolette case. I simply removed the metal tab that
was sticking up from the original power supply mount and also removed the power leads coming
out of the original power supply and attached them to the appropriate connections on the new
power supply. I also adjusted the power supply regulated output for +13.6VDC and monitored the
voltage level during transmit and it never budged. The UHF XTL5000 was putting out 42 watts
and also never wavered. The radio got a little warm but the supply stayed pretty cool. The new
supply is secured down on the flat metal mount with super velcro and does not budge. I have pics,
if anyone is interested please pm me with your email address and I will send them.

EDIT: Oh and I also had to trim the internal AC power supply plug off the AC wiring and attach
it to the appropriate power supply connections.

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayP ... ventPage=1
fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fujihiJB317 »

While there are many power supplies that will probably power-up the unit, the key point is that they are not specified, approved, or qualified by Motorola.

Using anything but the Motorola OEM powersupply will void the base station's FCC, UL, and P25 approvals.

Not worth it to me to save a few 100 $, and put in an unapproved unit and risk our $5MM P25 network going down.

OEM replacement
http://spi300.com/

John
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by Jim202 »

fujihiJB317 wrote:While there are many power supplies that will probably power-up the unit, the key point is that they are not specified, approved, or qualified by Motorola.

Using anything but the Motorola OEM powersupply will void the base station's FCC, UL, and P25 approvals.

Not worth it to me to save a few 100 $, and put in an unapproved unit and risk our $5MM P25 network going down.

OEM replacement
http://spi300.com/

John


Sounds like someone from Motorola has been bending your ear. Changing out a DC power supply is not going to change the FCC and P25 ratings of the radio. Are you forgetting that this is a mobile radio put into a plastic case. It's the radio that has been certified for operation not the DC power feeding the radio. If this was the case, you would have to have every auto made, run through a certification process before you could use a mobile radio in an automobile. Just how far do you intend to carry this? It's your money and Motorola's poor design.

It's like I had a Motorola radio shop told me one time that connecting up a non Motorola tone remote controller to a tone circuit would void the warranty on the Motorola radio on the far end of the tone circuit.

Jim
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by RFguy »

fujihiJB317 wrote:Using anything but the Motorola OEM powersupply will void the base station's FCC, UL, and P25 approvals.

John
John,

I see you pretty much quoted the vendors website word-for-word. Are you selling this product, or connected with the vendor?

Not a bad thing, but I prefer it to be in the open.
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by WB6DGN »

I won't even comment on the post by fujihi... because my comment wouldn't be very nice; but there are a couple of issues in using a "generic" supply that must (should) be considered. One of those is the radiated and conducted noise generated by the replacement supply which can have a profound effect on the performance of the radio, particularly in receive. The second issue is the amount of ripple on the supply's DC output. Switching supplies, in general, are not known for their low ripple output, particularly when compared to a linear supply, but this spec. varies widely between switching supplies as well. If it were me, I would look very closely at these two parameters before selecting a replacement. That replacement could come back to bite you somewhere down the road. These are a couple of VALID reasons to research your replacement very carefully.
Tom
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fujihiJB317 »

Jim:

You make excellent points, and are correct regarding the radio. However, this is a case of “apples and oranges”. The base station-consolette has its own independent FCC class “B” approval. (As well as its own UL approval). My post was in response to others who recommended replacement AC/DC power supplies seemingly without regard for the technical or legal considerations. Replacing a significant component such as the power supply does impact the approvals of the base station; however, to your point, the radio inside I believe will still maintain its approvals. You bring up an excellent point though…. I wonder what DC source Motorola uses when testing the radio for FCC approval??

Nemko has an excellent summary on the subject.
http://www.cclab.com/fcc-part-15.htm

As an FYI, when Motorola uses different radios in the base station, they re-submit the consolete unit for FCC certification.

As I stated, there are probably many AC/DC power sources which will meet or exceed the technical specifications. However, only the manufacturer has the authority to make substitutions or to re-qualify with alternative sources.

John
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fujihiJB317 »

WB6DGN wrote:I won't even comment on the post by fujihi... because my comment wouldn't be very nice; but there are a couple of issues in using a "generic" supply that must (should) be considered. One of those is the radiated and conducted noise generated by the replacement supply which can have a profound effect on the performance of the radio, particularly in receive. The second issue is the amount of ripple on the supply's DC output. Switching supplies, in general, are not known for their low ripple output, particularly when compared to a linear supply, but this spec. varies widely between switching supplies as well. If it were me, I would look very closely at these two parameters before selecting a replacement. That replacement could come back to bite you somewhere down the road. These are a couple of VALID reasons to research your replacement very carefully.
Tom
Tom

I do not understand why your comments would not be very nice , since it seems that you are agreeing with me.

There are two major issues: Technical and Legal.

You have done a very nice job in summarizing the technical.

However, even if one is to research other power supplies for replacement, those individuals do not have the authority to make a substitution.

Nemko has an excellent summary on the subject.
http://www.cclab.com/fcc-part-15.htm
The purpose of my post was to mainly address the legal implications. I am not going to my supervisor and tell him I can save $1000, but expose the county (in an extreme circumstance) to a multi-million $ wrongful death claim because our P25 system crashed.

I am “ok” in a HAM environment with mixing /matching and substitution of parts from Radio Shack.

But in a P25, mission critical environment….no way!!
These manufacturers have a hard enough time getting their own stuff to interoperate. Now with the P25 interoperability specification, different manufacturers equipment is to all be compatible (HA!, Like thats going to work).
Last thing we need is a $30 /hr technician changing a major component like a power supply without any regard for the technical or legal ramifications.

Nuff said.
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

Not sure what all the fuss is John but as far as i am concerned i
have all the authority i need to do what is necessary to keep any
part of my infrastructure to work and if motorola had any technical
minimal specs they sure missed the boat with the original power
supply and i properly bench tested with both analog and P25 and the
proof is its working well as needed without any anomalies....dan

Oh and your a bit out of bounds with the radio shack parts crack
as i would never allow anything in the infrastructure after repair
to be put back in service if it were not working properly and properly
tested!
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

Bump!
Had another HPN4005B in a XTL 5000 consolette burn up the same way the first one did
and was repaired the same way as before.
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d119
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by d119 »

Wait until you have one that the fan fails in. Then it overheats, and melts the consolette plastic housing...

These things run REALLY hot, regardless of whether it's just sitting there idle or not. Kinda scary. We had one with a fan failure in it, and it burned the "Caution - Hot Surface" tag right off the side, discolored the interior of the consolette housing, etc. For sure a fire hazard. And these were XTL 5000 W7 consolettes.
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by Jim202 »

Bottom line here is the high school grad engineers that Motorola is using these days don't have a clue. If they knew what they were doing, we all would enjoy a much more reliable power supply in the consolette package at a reasonable price. Not something that you can fry an egg on.

Kind of surprised that it hasn't been flagged by the UL boys as a personal safety issue and a fire hazard.

Jim
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by vhacmowilmob »

Jim202 wrote: Kind of surprised that it hasn't been flagged by the UL boys as a personal safety issue and a fire hazard.
My guess would be the UL has the same dim bulb engineers on their staff...
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by Will »

We had a Power Worx SS-30DV 30 amp 'rated' power supply fill up with dust and the fan failed. Power supply got realy hot, almost igniting the dust..

The OSHPOD and fire inspector would have loved this one. So NO More power supplies with fans in remote radio installations. It will get a new Duracom PS next week.

The radio, Kenwood D-710 only draws 10 amps on transmit, .8 amps RX. ARES Hospital radio.
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by Bigred »

I too have had those power supplies go crispy on me. From the earlier post regarding nothing but an OEM replacement for mission critical applications, why would I install an expensive incendiary device into my customers critical equipment and feel good about it?
Lots and lots of watts...
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

I'm bumping this one back to top, don't want it to get lost in the clutter.

FYI: This should be a MUG (Motorola Users Group) issue. Any of your MUG agency Reps please bring this up at the next MUG
as Motorola tends to not listen to issues unless they get hammered by multiple accounts with the same issue.
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by RFguy »

The XTL consollete is pending cancellation so it's kind of a moot cause now.
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fineshot1
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

RFguy wrote:The XTL consollete is pending cancellation so it's kind of a moot cause now.
Well regarding that lets hope that this or similar issue does not follow to the APX Consolette. :)
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Will
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by Will »

Looks like a Chinese computer power supply. I would NOT want one of those in my consolete.
http://spi300.com/

We had a Power Werx SS-30 burn up on us. The fan got clogged and quit. Something like this is NOT a good choice either.
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by motorola_otaku »

I see this form factor of power supply pop up a lot at hamfests now. From what I understand they're commonly used in LED billboards.

For a repeater project recently I took 3 of them that were rated for 5V @ 42A, trimmed them down to 4.4V, and wired them in series for 13.2V. They run perfectly stable in that configuration, and the internal fans are load-sensitive - more load, higher RPM. I would have no qualms at all about using one in a mission-critical application.
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by fineshot1 »

...and "Another One Bites The Dust"

That's 4 out of 10 in the field in approx less than two years since i started this thread = 40% failure rate
and almost always with smoke. The dang things are dangerous and a fire hazard. If the APX consolettes
use the same power supply we are in deep dark troubled waters.
fineshot1
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Jim202
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Re: XTL Consolette Pwr Supply HPN4005B

Post by Jim202 »

Will wrote:Looks like a Chinese computer power supply. I would NOT want one of those in my consolete.
http://spi300.com/

We had a Power Werx SS-30 burn up on us. The fan got clogged and quit. Something like this is NOT a good choice either.


I love the crap these companies try to peddle on us. If you believe half of what that add says, I have a piece of shore line for sale in New Mexico.

Jim
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