construct a smartnet system

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kj4bnd
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:10 am

construct a smartnet system

Post by kj4bnd »

Hello,

I have seen a few smart net controllers out on ebay. How hard is it to put a site together and to maintain it?

Is it all terminal interface or is it RSS/CPS for the controller to?

Does anyone have any technical / maintenance manuals in pdf?

Thanks
John
kj4bnd
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d119
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by d119 »

The issues with these older SmartNET controllers is that they use UV EPROM's to store the channel information and aren't programmable in the sense that a radio is.

Only Motorola can burn the UV EPROM's, or in the case of the MTC3600, create the codeplug file that is required to make the thing work. It contains frequency assignments, callsigns, connect tones, etc.

I'm not even sure if the 6809 controllers support OBT trunking or if that requires an MTC3600. I know the supported UHF-low trunking, but I'm not sure about VHF or UHF-high.

Once the controller is programmed by Motorola for the desired frequencies and whatnot, all interface to it is done from a terminal.

Other things such as controlling subscriber access and whatnot can be done through programs like Site Lens and Radio Control Manager, but these require an RF interface to the controller along with a RIM/RIM-II as well as a dedicated PC running Windows NT to make the programs work. If you can find them.

Big PITA is what it is.
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escomm
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by escomm »

Correct me if I am wrong but my recollection is that Motorola is not selling the codeplug chips any more, they must be bought from Genesis. Not sure where pricing falls but they were about $2500 apiece from Motorola.

You'll also have a lot of fun with firmware and PAL chips on the boards. If there are mismatches you'll get bootloops.
kj4bnd
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by kj4bnd »

Thanks guys..

The answer i got here is stick with my original idea of several Icom repeaters connected to the NXDN Controllers.. Make VHF Trunking...

And would really be great for a moderator to set me out to general pop .. PLEASE
desperado
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What radios do you own?: Motorola

Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by desperado »

After working on one of those PITA 6809 systems today,,,, all day. I can say this. Be ready for a headache.
The system I was on today was installed in 97 and is now OLD. the CSC failed today, it's the second one we have put in the system this month.

If you are determined to try this, take ALL the boards in the system and replace ALL the electrolytic caps first.
Replace the power supply caps.
And be SURE with everything unhooked from the supply that it's putting out 5 volts. Not 5.5, 5.3 or even 5.2 it HAS to be between 4.95 and 5.05 per the engineers at Motorola.

In truth, it you can find one, get a 3600 controller. It's going to work better. But if you have a working 6809 and PLENTY of spares, which we used the last CSC today in the central Ohio area, then go for it.
Keith
CET USMSS
Field Tech
What more can I say
desperado
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What radios do you own?: Motorola

Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by desperado »

as far as programming, it's possible if you have an ePROM burner and the correct software to create the plug for it.
The one plus to running a smartnet system as opposed to NXDN is Spectra's are cheap and plentiful. NXDN radios are new and expensive.
Keith
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Field Tech
What more can I say
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escomm
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by escomm »

desperado wrote:as far as programming, it's possible if you have an ePROM burner and the correct software to create the plug for it.
The one plus to running a smartnet system as opposed to NXDN is Spectra's are cheap and plentiful. NXDN radios are new and expensive.
Yes but who has R34???
desperado
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What radios do you own?: Motorola

Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by desperado »

We just did a 6809, there is a software that will create the proper file to be loaded by an programmer.

As far as the SPECIFIC programmer, i have one of those too.
Keith
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What more can I say
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d119
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by d119 »

desperado wrote:We just did a 6809, there is a software that will create the proper file to be loaded by an programmer.

As far as the SPECIFIC programmer, i have one of those too.

Uh, details?????
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escomm
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by escomm »

d119 wrote:
desperado wrote:We just did a 6809, there is a software that will create the proper file to be loaded by an programmer.

As far as the SPECIFIC programmer, i have one of those too.

Uh, details?????
R34 good buddy

Or R3400

Release 34.00 or some %*&$
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escomm
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by escomm »

And you don't need a SPECIFIC programmer the codeplug programming is done via serial connection

If you are talking Prom burners, some say a DATA I/O is required

I can promise you this isn't the case. ChipMax2 from Fry's works like a freakin champ
markado
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by markado »

Constructing a Smartnet system based on 6809 controller is easy if you have all the cables and equipment but maintaining such old guy is another story.

We are maintaining 9 Single site Smartnet system here in the Philippines for police use. 8 of which had MTC3600 and a 15-year old, 28-channel 6809 controller to cater the biggest region here. It is hook-up to Quantars and MSF 5000s. True that it is a real headache as replacement boards are hard to find today and expensive but we have to keep him running. Believe me or not, this guy gives us zero downtime for 15 years. Hopefully, we will be able to convert some Quantars to P25 early next year.
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d119
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by d119 »

markado wrote:Constructing a Smartnet system based on 6809 controller is easy if you have all the cables and equipment but maintaining such old guy is another story.

We are maintaining 9 Single site Smartnet system here in the Philippines for police use. 8 of which had MTC3600 and a 15-year old, 28-channel 6809 controller to cater the biggest region here. It is hook-up to Quantars and MSF 5000s. True that it is a real headache as replacement boards are hard to find today and expensive but we have to keep him running. Believe me or not, this guy gives us zero downtime for 15 years. Hopefully, we will be able to convert some Quantars to P25 early next year.
I completely believe you. The 6809 is from a time when things were purpose-built to perform one task, and over-engineered to be completely reliable and bulletproof from day one. It's from a time when Motorola truly cared what the industry thought of their systems, and when proof of reliability was still something Motorola took pride in. That's no longer the case with Motorola. The MTC 3600 is actually a CPX2404 industrial computer chassis with a common, multi-purpose CPU card in it and a few custom, purpose-built cards. While the MTC 3600 is a brick s_hithouse, I've seen my share of failures on them and I've done my share of reloading CPU cards. My point is that it is the jumping-off from purpose built to reuse of something that already exists and making it do something else.

Don't even get me started on the Astro25 stuff. Very little of the master site is even Motorola equipment.

Back to the topic at hand - I desire more knowledge and details about this R34 thing.
kj4bnd
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by kj4bnd »

Alright,

We are about to acquire either a 6809 or a startsite.. Both are for the most turn-key with few exceptions. (Heliax and antenna)

Both suppliers state that they can get the codeplug done with our frequencies once they've been assigned.

Is there any words of wisdom some could pass my way? I have an IP Connectivity thru the internet and an IP to RS-232 converter that i can connect up and have terminal access to the controller -- eliminating my need to drive to the site for routine admin work.. (I HOPE)
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d119
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by d119 »

You're probably going to want to buy complete spares for whatever you do end up with... This equipment is getting VERY long in the teeth...
kj4bnd
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:10 am

Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by kj4bnd »

Oh yeah we're ensuring we get spare controllers for the system.
kj4bnd
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:10 am

Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by kj4bnd »

So.. Acquired a 5809 controller..

The previous owner gave me the logon info they "thought was correct".. it wasnt..

Any ideas? Is there a way to drop it to default? What is the default?

Thanks
John
KJ4BND
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d119
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by d119 »

kj4bnd wrote:So.. Acquired a 5809 controller..

The previous owner gave me the logon info they "thought was correct".. it wasnt..

Any ideas? Is there a way to drop it to default? What is the default?

Thanks
John
KJ4BND
6809.

You need to talk with Bernie here on the board. He is all things trunking from that era.

Defaults for an MTC 3600 on PAM-C are

Login: MASTER
Password: $MASTER$

You might also try

Login: CONTROL
Password: TRUNKING

Couldn't tell you if that will work on an 6809.
kj4bnd
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:10 am

Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by kj4bnd »

Sweet-- -I will try it and post the results to the board..

Now to get a moment to go back to storage and plug it in..
MasterMarine
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Re: construct a smartnet system

Post by MasterMarine »

It has been 10 years since this topic was touched last.

We have an old (installed in 1995) 10 channel Trunked simulcast SmartNet system. We have seen some weird behavior of the system recently. I need to check and adjust the output levels from the power supplies at the Prime Site Controller and the Site Controllers. About the time someone last posted on this thread, I was involved in doing the PS adjustment at our Prime Site. I was on the phone with Moto Tech Support and was just doing what they told me to do. They dropped our support years ago so no one to call now. I remember there were some solder points on the backside of the backplane where I made the measurements and some screws we turned in the power supply down below to get the appropriate levels.

Does someone have the actual procedure with specs and pictures? I have been digging thru manuals but haven't found the right one yet.
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