IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

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Dorf411
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IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Dorf411 »

I have a project where I believe we will want to use some sort of IP Radio Gateway. I am considering the following:

Telex IP224
IDA 21-28
Zetron 6302
JPS NXU-2A

In the application that I intend to use them, I would want to connect the radio gateway to a console on the local end using 4 wire half duplex to a radio control station on the far end. I can control the radio either using a tone remote on the output of the IP gateway or do a direct connect if it supports it along with channel steering. The system would be a simple gateway to gateway we have no need for multi-site or special RIOP remotes to be interfaced. Because of this we should be able to avoid the need for any multicast support.

Does anyone have any feedback on the above units good or bad or recommend anything better. The objective is not to find the cheapest solution. I want a reliable, well supported, straight forward system that doesn't come with numerous gotcha's.

Thanks,
John
Jim202
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Jim202 »

Dorf411 wrote:I have a project where I believe we will want to use some sort of IP Radio Gateway. I am considering the following:

Telex IP224
IDA 21-28
Zetron 6302
JPS NXU-2A

In the application that I intend to use them, I would want to connect the radio gateway to a console on the local end using 4 wire half duplex to a radio control station on the far end. I can control the radio either using a tone remote on the output of the IP gateway or do a direct connect if it supports it along with channel steering. The system would be a simple gateway to gateway we have no need for multi-site or special RIOP remotes to be interfaced. Because of this we should be able to avoid the need for any multicast support.

Does anyone have any feedback on the above units good or bad or recommend anything better. The objective is not to find the cheapest solution. I want a reliable, well supported, straight forward system that doesn't come with numerous gotcha's.

Thanks,
John



Depending on the real use and cost, you might want to check out what Sytech Corp from Alexandria, VA. has that will fit your application and budget. Check out their web site at http://www.sytechcorp.com for information on the "RIOS" gateway.

Sytech has about some 160 gateways just in the state of Virginia, all up and running on a common network there at county and state dispatch centers. They also have a good number of gateways installed in many of the 3 letter agencies of the federal government all around the country.

Jim
jmfirefighter20
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by jmfirefighter20 »

We were using a set of the JPS NXU2A for a while with four wire full duplex tone remote on an analog simplex channel. They worked great, however they do have a hardware/software delay inherent in them which caused some issues with our voting system until we were able to get everything adjusted correctly.

I was happy with them, the only reason we took them out was an upgrade to MLC8000 units for simulcast (which is a whole crappy on it's own).
Joshua
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Bill_G
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Bill_G »

Simplest and cheapest - two NXU-2A's. They will support 4W tone control across your enterprise, or through the internet. Be aware that any framing errors will cause the LLGT to stutter or warble, and drop the xmit of the station. The NXU simply samples the input, encodes it, and sends it across the network to the far end where it is decoded. Generally the human ear cannot detect a difference (or the human hearing can at least deal with some distortions), but precision tones can be distorted enough to cause a failed function decode by the base station. You'll need at least 160Kbps to support full duplex. A pair of NXU's supports one base station. Level setting is strictly done with pots on each end.

Most reliable - two Telex IP223's. The near end IP223 is connected to the 4W console. It interprets the tone controls, and sends the functions to the far end where they are regenerated. Voice is sampled, encoded, and shipped out on the same line. So, any errors in transit may cause the voice to warble, but the function is not. Only about 80Kbps needed for full duplex. A pair of IP223's supports two base stations. Level setting is done by both mechanical pots and soft pots via web interface.

I'm not familiar with the Ida or Zetron products.
Dorf411
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Dorf411 »

I think I am leaning towards the IP-224 which is the replacement for the IP-223. I think I should be able to setup the near end for 4w tone control and hopefully the far end with local control with TX, RX Audio, PTT and COR. After a brief look through of the manual it appears I can choose not to use multicast since it will be essentially point to point.

I have two control stations that need to be setup so a unit with dual radio control would be the better option in opinion.

Thanks for the feedback so far, still interested in hearing any additional thoughts and feedback.
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Bill_G
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Bill_G »

The IP224 has a better front panel display, you can do more with it, and you can monitor line levels via the web interface. But, I hate the connector on the back. The IP223 uses a DB25 for each radio. The IP224 uses a single oddball DB32 for both radios. A bit of a pain to set up.

Looking at the Ida site, the 21-28 might not be their best fit for you, but their Easy Link might be. Reads similar in concept and operation as the NXU-2A.

Looking at the Zetron 6300 series, it seems the same way - a simple ip appliance that samples input and ships it to the other end. And knowing Zetron, it will be a hardy box that lasts forever with straight forward features, and complete instructions.

If it were my first time setting an ip link up, I'd go with either the NXU or the Zetron. The Telex has a learning curve.
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wavetar
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by wavetar »

Bill_G wrote:The IP224 has a better front panel display, you can do more with it, and you can monitor line levels via the web interface. But, I hate the connector on the back. The IP223 uses a DB25 for each radio. The IP224 uses a single oddball DB32 for both radios.
It's a DB37, and you're right, it's a weird looking connector. The IP224's I've seen came with the connectors & housings for building interface cables, at least.

I must say it's nice not to have to crack the 224's open like you needed to in the 223's to set jumpers and solder pads, all software settings now.
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

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Bill_G
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Bill_G »

wavetar wrote:
Bill_G wrote:The IP224 has a better front panel display, you can do more with it, and you can monitor line levels via the web interface. But, I hate the connector on the back. The IP223 uses a DB25 for each radio. The IP224 uses a single oddball DB32 for both radios.
It's a DB37, and you're right, it's a weird looking connector. The IP224's I've seen came with the connectors & housings for building interface cables, at least.

I must say it's nice not to have to crack the 224's open like you needed to in the 223's to set jumpers and solder pads, all software settings now.
Thanks for the correction. Yea - on the plus side, they provide one - a solder pot version with a metal hood.
Dorf411
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Dorf411 »

Bill_G wrote: If it were my first time setting an ip link up, I'd go with either the NXU or the Zetron. The Telex has a learning curve.
To me looking at the manuals of all 3 the Telex appeared to be the most straight forward and obvious, what kind of learning curve are you talking about? A call to Telex and they said I could configure them with multicast disabled, that would be the part that would give me the most concern is if I had to get multicast working.

When looking at the manual for the NXU it seems to be more directed to an application using a single channel solution without any channel steering using COR and PTT on both ends. On at least one of the channels I will need to configure, I will need channel steering so I will have to go with 4 wire TX/RX. Reviewing the NXU manual and pinout I don't see how to use balanced TX/RX connections. What am I missing?
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Bill_G
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Bill_G »

Dorf411 wrote:
Bill_G wrote: If it were my first time setting an ip link up, I'd go with either the NXU or the Zetron. The Telex has a learning curve.
To me looking at the manuals of all 3 the Telex appeared to be the most straight forward and obvious, what kind of learning curve are you talking about? A call to Telex and they said I could configure them with multicast disabled, that would be the part that would give me the most concern is if I had to get multicast working.

When looking at the manual for the NXU it seems to be more directed to an application using a single channel solution without any channel steering using COR and PTT on both ends. On at least one of the channels I will need to configure, I will need channel steering so I will have to go with 4 wire TX/RX. Reviewing the NXU manual and pinout I don't see how to use balanced TX/RX connections. What am I missing?
Alright! Someone not intimidated by the Telex docs. Excellent. Most guys have serious butt clench when trying to get an IP223 or 224 going for the first time. MCast or unicast is simply a matter of addressing. The tough part of getting Mcast to work is the network in between - will it or won't it pass mcast packets? Consult your network admin about passing mcast packets through the routers.

Again, the NXU is the simplest, but it can do 4W just fine. Yes - it depends upon the COR line to send packets across, but you can lock the COR line down with a jumper, or use VOX. It has a balanced audio input, and a single ended low impedance output, but you won't have any trouble interfacing with a console or a tone termination panel. It can be set for full duplex so that if you are connecting to a repeater, dispatch can still hear inbound calls while they are transmitting. Since you are using tone control, and channel steering is a function of tone control, the NXU will be transparent and have no effect.

As stated earlier, the Ida and Zetron products look very similar in concept to the NXU. I imagine they all will have similar caveats and limitations.
Dorf411
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by Dorf411 »

I figured I would update this post, we did the project and I decided to go Zetron 6302. I would have to say they couldn't have made them any easier to setup and configure. We had the network guy setup the network path through various cisco devices and it works great with extremely easy connections.

I was leaning toward the Telex product but since they didn't seem to eager to waste time setting up additional accounts to sell the products I decided to go with a vendor that we already do business with and have always had great luck with.

Thanks for all of the feedback.
VA3HF
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Re: IP Radio Gateway suggestions requested

Post by VA3HF »

One box to consider for multiple radios is the Vocality Basics Radio Relay line. I used them to link three MTR2000 radios over 2 dialup analog modems using MLPPP because there were no digital services available and they worked! Mind you, you need to take some training to set them up properly and the cost isn't as cheap as the NXU-2A devices if you only need one 4 wire circuit. If you have lots of bandwidth, there is a setup that is just as simple as the NXUs. One nice thing about the NXUs is that they have a serial link and a couple extra I/O each way for other things.
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