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failsoft problems

This forum is for discussions regarding System Infrastructure and Related Equipment. This includes but is not limited to repeaters, base stations, consoles, voters, Voice over IP, system design and implementation, and other related topics.

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itjisfo
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failsoft problems

Postby itjisfo » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:49 pm

ok here is my dilema i maintain a rather large 4.1 smartzone system.. when i say large i mean the number of users we have only 2 simulcast sites .. my problem is when we go into failsoft the console operators have no idea until some one calls them on the phone and lets them know.. I had an idea for an early wrming sytem and it works but i was looking for input from a diffrent perspective... this is what i have done

I created a dummy talk group on the system named failsoft. I than programmed that into a mcs2000 model 1 and took the internal speaker + pin off the bottom connector and hooked it to a relay. to trigger a small red led mirror mount light.. it seems to work perfectly when i talk on that talkgroup i got the tx audio over an external speaker and the light blinks ..

I believe the light will light when the system goes into failsoft because it works with just plain ptt and no audio ..
my thinking is the radio will sit there monitoring a talkgroup no uses until something bad happens and we enter failsoft then the open carrier of the quantars being keyed and the failsoft beep will keep the light blinking until trunking returns..

Does any one have a better /easier idea ????

thanks in advance

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Bruce1807
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Postby Bruce1807 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:09 pm

Do you have Moscad?
Also why does your system go into failsoft that much.
I have 4.1 SZ (5 site) and whilst we have the odd site trunking we have never had failsoft.
Is your site link in channel 1 or channel 2?

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itjisfo
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Postby itjisfo » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:18 pm

no moscad we use fullvision and nmo for problems ... it does not go into failsoft very much but the first time it went into failsoft on the smartzone system the dispatchers did not get the red x's they were used too from the smartnet system .. we are smartzone but only 2 sites the are full simulcast so basically we have 1 site as far as the users are concerned...

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Bruce1807
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Postby Bruce1807 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:40 pm

Do you have paging on the full vision?

RocketNJ
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Postby RocketNJ » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:28 pm

On our SZ4.1 system in north "Joisey" I mounted two Astro Spectra mobiles in the consoles. One is programmed for SmartNet operation on simulcast sub-system 1 and the second is SmartNet on simulcast sub-system 2. Both are programmed to alert and display on site trunking. They are left on a backup talkgroup.

If either sub-system goes into site trunking or failsoft the dispatchers hear the tone from the corresponding mobile.

The mobiles also serve as backup in case the consoles go down or the link from the CEBs to the AEB.

By programming them SmartNet and entering only the control channels of one sub-system the mobiles will not "roam" to another sub-system if one goes into site trunking or failsoft. It seems to work for our needs.

Another thing that could be done but would require more effort is to grab the alarm signal out of each prime site controller and wire it into an aux in on the consoles. Then if the controllers generate an alarms (not side area for example) the console would show an alarm. Make sure to use replays if necessary so that a normally closed input to the console is used. That way if the link from the controller alarm output to console opens it will show an alarm.

I personally like the mobiles. Simple and easy. (if your dispatch can receive signal from different sub-systems).

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Bruce1807
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Postby Bruce1807 » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:03 pm

Moscad makes it soooooooooooo easy

RocketNJ
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Postby RocketNJ » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:18 pm

We've got Moscad on the system also have NMO monitoring. Problem I see with Moscad is we cannot set up a client to just audible alarm on certain alarms and ignore others. The audible alarm is all or nothing.

Unless you know a better way..... :-)

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Bruce1807
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Postby Bruce1807 » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:20 pm

you can have up to 4 servers
Program 1 server for for just what you want the dispatchers to see

RocketNJ
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Postby RocketNJ » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:44 pm

We've got 1 server at the master site and 1 client at my desk. The server is not going to be relocated.

Motorola quoted us $15k to neuter the client so only certain alarms would be audible. They stated the changes would affect both the server and client. I want all alarms at my desk to be audible while radio system related alarms in dispatch to be silent (that's what Full Vision and NMO monitoring are for).

Motorola's Moscad field programming support is ridiculous. Seems the Moscad team that was in place 4 years ago is long since scattered in the wind. They are depending on the field STs to support all reprogramming/upgrades. Since no one in the field has the experience they are quoting an arm and a leg.

I've inquired about a Moscad programming class for end users and I am looking at attending one. I've got quite a bit of automated control system programming experience so picking up on the programming should be a snap.

One other option I am looking at is the license cost for trap forwarding. That would let Moscad send events to the CAD system, have CAD filters set up to notify the dispatchers on events they should be monitoring.

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Bruce1807
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Postby Bruce1807 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:59 am

Moscad is actually pretty simple unless you are doing intelligent controls where you need to ladder program which is very easy.

Anyway back to the problem.
You can install a second derver on Moscad, my WonderWare license is unlimited so I can have up to four servers.
On the second server program it so that only displays the alarms for the dispatch center.

Put a client in the center and thats what they get.
As they get more familiar you can later add other bits like temperature and so forth.


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