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Quantar second receiver questions

This forum is for discussions regarding System Infrastructure and Related Equipment. This includes but is not limited to repeaters, base stations, consoles, voters, Voice over IP, system design and implementation, and other related topics.

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Mraudio
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Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:48 am
What radios do you own?: Quantar/AS/A-spec./VertexP25

Quantar second receiver questions

Postby Mraudio » Wed May 28, 2008 4:58 am

I have a UHF station, and a 900 Mhz both CAI capable. Id like to add a second non voted reciever to the UHF repeater by adding a UHF receiever to the 900 station and running a different NAC for that site, back haul the remote site on 900Mhz and then add the 900 receiver to the main transmitter location. Questions are how dose the second receiever option work? Is it a Astrotac receiever that hangs below the main station or can I simply put the 900 mhz receiver out of the other Quantar and install it next to the UHF in the blank slot in the station? I assume that the repeater end also wont monitor both receivers at the same time and Ill have to use scan and F1 UHF, F2 900 ?

Thanks
MrA

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Twisted_Pear
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Re: Quantar second receiver questions

Postby Twisted_Pear » Thu May 29, 2008 1:57 am

The second receiver slot is only for expanding the receivable range of the unit. Basically you are combining the ranges of the two modules to make a larger range (ie, 136-174 versus 150-174). You cannot do anything custom with it like you want to. It doesn't work that way.

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xmo
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Re: Quantar second receiver questions

Postby xmo » Thu May 29, 2008 7:16 am

"... I assume that the repeater end also won't monitor both receivers at the same time and I'll have to use scan and F1 UHF, F2 900 ? "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is pretty much the way it works.

The second receiver in a Quantar is not like a second receiver in other station models [like MSF or Micor]. Those could be independent and function simultaneously. You could equip the station with multiple wirelines and have each receiver come down a separate line to the console.

In a Quantar the internal second receiver does not work that way. If you need those sorts of capabilities you put a second independent receiver at the same site, not in the Quantar's internal option slot. Although there are things it can't do - the Quantar second receiver implementation does some other things very well.

As Twisted_Pear says, the option can extend your available coverage - for example a range one VHF and a range two VHF receiver in the same cabinet. However, the two receivers do not have to be in the same band - you can put in whatever you want - for example your proposed UHF and 900 combination.

Which receiver is active is determined in the station's channel information programming. The RSS help file explains the configuration. When you have two receivers in the station you specify which one is inactive for each channel by entering a frequency of 0.000.

That's pretty much it. What you can do with the receivers is really the same as what you can do with channels. You can select channels with tone remote, with wildcard, with SAM, or you can use scan.

Mraudio
Posts: 100
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What radios do you own?: Quantar/AS/A-spec./VertexP25

Re: Quantar second receiver questions

Postby Mraudio » Fri May 30, 2008 4:48 am

Excellent , thanks fellas. I'm hoping that that scan doesn't introduce to much delay time switching between users on the two sites. I also wonder if the person using RX 2 through the 900 side will hear that last part of their transmission when they unkey due to the digital delay (conditioning) in digital mode. Thanks again.
MrA

Dan562
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Re: Quantar second receiver questions

Postby Dan562 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:40 pm

I have a few questions about your system configuration.

Are both of your UHF and 900 MHz Quantar CAI Base Stations Repeaters, or is the UHF a repeater and the 900 MHz a Simplex station?

How do you plan to convert the Astro (Digital) signaling back to the required Analog audio for Tx and Rx at your remote console? Unless you are going to use a Consolette (900 MHz CAI Mobile with a separate Power Supply) Package.

Remember this is a very important issue when using the Receiver Scan Feature with any Public Safety System. There can be the developed Delay using Scan either in the Analog and/or Digital modes, therefore in a dangerous hostage crisis, sylables or words can be blanked out by the Scanning Delay and something so simplely stated as, "Don't Shoot" could end up as "Shoot" thus creating a bigger problem for Public Safety Officiers and the Radio Maintenance Personnel. Who's at fault for the speech Delay problem?

As far as installing a Second Receiver VHF / UHF / 900 MHZ into the internal Quantar Base Station / Repeaters is possible by ordering a standard FRU Receiver for the Frequency Band required. The separate receiver comes with it's own RF cable and mounting hardware. The Scan feature can be set up for Non-Priority or Priority Scan (refer to the Public Safety issue). Non-Priority means the first signal to capture either receiver frequency will prioritize the Base Station / Repeater function till that signal ends. When using Priority Scan in a two frequency station configuration F1 UHF set up as normal Channel and F2 900 MHz would be set up as the Priority Scan Channel to use as the Priority Remote Tx Link access.

You can also set up the UHF repeater using a separate T5589A Astro-Tac CAI Receiver mounted below the Quantar Base Station / Repeater, using Enhanced Wildcard, the System Connector on the rear of the station's Backplane for Analog and COR from the Astro-Tac receiver and a separate Null-Modem cable between the Astro-Tac Digital Port connector and the normal Remote (Console) Input (RJ45) Connector on the Front Panel of the station. You'll need to configure Scripting in the Enhanced WildCard to enable the Analog audio and COR Input to correctly interface through the signal paths. All the rest of the software programming is performmed in the standard RSS / CSS / CPS or whatever Motorola denotes Infrastructure software today.

Both of these options functionally work because this was my first Quantar Infrastructure "SP" Base Station / Repeater configurations that I developed in 2000 for the National Park Service in New Mexico using these combination of options / features on six (6) stations for the Motorola Schaumburg X461ABSP Bid & Quote.

Dan

Mraudio
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What radios do you own?: Quantar/AS/A-spec./VertexP25

Re: Quantar second receiver questions

Postby Mraudio » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:36 am

I have both uhf and 900 stations mixed capable. I was going to use the 900 repeater station to merely listen to the same input as the other uhf station but use a different NAC and PL tone on the input for the "second uhf receiver"

I had planned on a FRU UHF RX to put in the 900 station then use the old 900 RX in the other UHF repeater, program F1 UHF RX and UHF TX and F2 900RX and UHF TX both with the correct NAC and PL tone decode for that "site"

I figured the delay when digital would be significant due to the encode by user, decode and condition in 900 station, decode in UHF station and condition, TX on UHF station decode by other users. I would think that when using the remote site that you may even hear yourself when you unkey for a breif moment.

Dont have the money for the second UHF RX at the moment, gas is more important than playing on HAM radio. Id never even consider this setup for a public safety user. If they wanted something like this it would involve using the right stuff to add a second receiver IE astrotac and voter, lease lines, microwave etc. Not being in the industry anymore but still wanting to play with some things, I look here for the people that do and have the answers. Thanks for your reply.
-MrA

Dan562
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:30 pm
What radios do you own?: Kenwood, Yaesu, ICOM, Motorola

Re: Quantar second receiver questions

Postby Dan562 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:55 am

What do you mean that G-A-S is expensive? Gasoline is Outrageously expense, we all need stock in the Oil companies just to stay even financially with our fill-ups!

There is one item I should make you aware of and this is the SAM Decoder module, this decoder only functions with Analog audio becasue it detects the audible DTMF or Single Tones Off-Of-The-Air at the receiver's Discriminator therefore the SAM cannot decode any Digital signaling. As far as I know, as recent as 2004, the Astro Signaling Format still did not have any Digital signal software written to Encode or Decode the equivalent DTMF Touch Tones, which I thought was rather rediculous by todays standards. You could do this function on a iDEN / Nexte Systeml but not on a Astro Digital System. :roll:

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xmo
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Re: Quantar second receiver questions

Postby xmo » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:55 pm

Dan is certainly correct that the SAM module only responds to analog signaling, not Astro signaling.

To recover keypad dialing from an Astro channel, you need a DIU. The keypad dialing is sent as data from the initialing subscriber radio across the Astro channel. The DIU recovers that keypad data and generates touchtones which can be routed out the MRTI port to whatever decoder device you want.


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