Good Tower engineering company?

[Wowbagger]

I need to get a quote on some tower work, and am looking for suggestions.

What I need is somebody who can give me a good quote + engineering diagrams for running 2 runs of hardline up a 1400 foot tower, with proper mounting hardware etc. (while I know how to test that the line is good, I will freely admit I don't know how to make it stay on the tower for a decade in Kansas weather.)

I'm hoping to get a rough price quote, so that if my radio club can actually get their 501c3 and shake loose some money we can get our flagship repaired.

(and BTW: If anybody knows of an amateur radio club that has recently gotten a 501c3, I'd appreciate a contact there as well - we are having trouble coming up with exactly how to phrase things so that the IRS will accept it.)

[tvsjr]

Can't help you on the engineering company.

As far as the site - are there platforms on the tower? We have a site that's about 1500' AGL... with a 25' cable run. The repeaters are in a building on the tower. This is by far the preferred method assuming you have good access, preferably an elevator, etc. You're looking at some pretty serious cable (probably 1-5/8") which is expensive and difficult to put up.

On the 501c3, have you looked for a friendly CPA that might help out? I went through the process a few years back, and we were fortunate to find a local CPA who was willing to help us out for essentially nothing. There was quite a bit of finagling that he was able to help with which made the application fly through a bit easier.

Just some thoughts...

[Bill_G]

Search locally. There must be someone in the region.

[Wowbagger]

Can't help you on the engineering company.

As far as the site - are there platforms on the tower? We have a site that's about 1500' AGL... with a 25' cable run. The repeaters are in a building on the tower. This is by far the preferred method assuming you have good access, preferably an elevator, etc. You're looking at some pretty serious cable (probably 1-5/8") which is expensive and difficult to put up.

Not any more. The site is the KWCH tower just outside Hutchinson, KS, and while in the Good Old Days they would let us take the elevator up, now the elevator is off-limits (not OSHA approved, somebody got themselves killed poking their head out of it - "Hey, I can see my house from <SPLORT>"), and so we are at the base.

We *used* to have 2 runs of CATV hardline to our antennas, but it came loose from the tower and has broken and beaten itself to death.

On the 501c3, have you looked for a friendly CPA that might help out?

We've checked. The big issue is how to present ourselves to the IRS - to answer the question "and why SHOULD we allow you to be a charitable organization?" There are various accepted reasons, but trying to find one that fits us, and then present that convincingly, is a trick. We are trying to go for our role providing communications during emergencies and bad weather, but stating that, and making it stick, are tricky.

[Bill_G]

That's why you hold drills - to prove your members are ready. There has to be a fine small community in your service area that needs the assistance of a group of volunteers to man radios and offer aid during emergencies.

[tvsjr]

Not any more. The site is the KWCH tower just outside Hutchinson, KS, and while in the Good Old Days they would let us take the elevator up, now the elevator is off-limits (not OSHA approved, somebody got themselves killed poking their head out of it - "Hey, I can see my house from <SPLORT>"), and so we are at the base.

We *used* to have 2 runs of CATV hardline to our antennas, but it came loose from the tower and has broken and beaten itself to death.

Nice mental image

Yeah, as usual, some idiot has to screw it up for the rest of us.

We've checked. The big issue is how to present ourselves to the IRS - to answer the question "and why SHOULD we allow you to be a charitable organization?" There are various accepted reasons, but trying to find one that fits us, and then present that convincingly, is a trick. We are trying to go for our role providing communications during emergencies and bad weather, but stating that, and making it stick, are tricky.

Yeah, that's where the CPA came in for us. I found lots of results googling "amateur 501(c)3" - maybe contact one of the larger clubs listed and see if they would be willing to share a copy of their application with you?

The other issue we had is that a lot of the 501(c)3 stuff is dependent on the state incorporation - how you incorporate and how you set your bylaws can affect how easy the 501c is to get. We looked at doing it ourselves and discovered that, while we might be able to fight fires and save lives, accountants/attorneys we were NOT.

[Bill_G]

The other issue we had is that a lot of the 501(c)3 stuff is dependent on the state incorporation - how you incorporate and how you set your bylaws can affect how easy the 501c is to get. We looked at doing it ourselves and discovered that, while we might be able to fight fires and save lives, accountants/attorneys we were NOT.

Exactly. Every service organization runs into that. Our strategy was to deposit donations with our "foundation", a separate charitable organization whose sole purpose was to hold and distribute monies given to us to serve the community based on the decisions of the board. So, dues and donations minus operating expenses were given to the foundation. Projects are written up and presented to the board who in turn allocate funds. It seemed unnecessarily convoluted, but it met the letter of the law as far as record keeping and audits, and monies distributed did not constitute taxable income.

[Tom in D.C.]

Don't overlook the use of the word "educational" in your 501-C-3 considerations. The word goes right along with "charitable" in the lexicon of the non-profit institutions. If your club runs FCC license upgrade training sessions the activity is on its face fulfilling the chartered purposes of the club.

[xmo]

If you are still looking, contact James at: http://www.jnfs.net/

He is located in Seward, Nebraska. He has done good work for us at reasonable prices.

[Jim202]

By any chance have you sat down with the tower owner and see just what specs they have on tower work? The
owners are generally very tight on who can work on their tower and just what material can be used. It would be
a big surprise if the owner didn't tell you exactly what king of hangers or cable hardware you will use on their tower.
They may even tell you what kind of coax you will use. They probably have a list of approved tower crews that they
will allow to work on their tower.

Don't fight progress, go ask the owner of the tower before you spend another minute on the project. It wouldn't
surprise me to see the cost of the installation to be at least $4000 to $6000 plus materials. It gets expensive real
fast once you go over 200 feet up a tower. Your also looking at least a couple of days work going that high.

Jim

[Wowbagger]

By any chance have you sat down with the tower owner and see just what specs they have on tower work?

I've emailed him once, and he didn't get back to me. I can ping him again, but we are guests on the tower - we get space free of charge - so I don't want to take up too much of his time.

[MSS-Dave]

http://www.natehome.com/


I can't recommend anyone in particular but there are quite a few tower dogs in the midwest. If no joy with your contact, perhaps NATE could point you in another direction...

Dave

[mruwave]

I'd ask the Chief Engineer at KWCH who they use and try to work through that rigger. That way the station doesn't have someone unfamiliar with their tower on it.

Most riggers can readily give you a list of parts/pieces you'll need to attach the line to the tower properly. Do a little research in the Andrew catalog 37 or 38. You'll need:
1. line
2. connectors for both ends
3. softline jumper for the antenna end (if desired)
4. hangars appropriate to the line
5. attachments appropriate to attach the hangars to the tower
6. grounding kits for the top and bottom and about every 500' of vertical run
7. a dehydrator setup appropriate to the line.

Riggers are not cheap. Most riggers charge a day (or more) mobilization, a day to rig/unrig the tower (depending on the tower), and $2 - $5K per day for labor. You're probably looking at a minimum of 2 days labor to properly complete the job + mobilization and truck/equipment fees. You'll have to have at least 2 guys on the tower and a winch operator. Find out the minimum requirements for liability insurance KWCH requires ($1 - $10 million) and make sure your rigger supplies them with a certificate of liability insurance prior to arrival.

I work with several tower companies here in the southeast but its getting more difficult to find qualified/experienced ones.

If I can help you any further, feel free to contact me here or through my email (mruwave@nc.rr.com).

- Jim

[mruwave]

Add hoisting grips every 200 feet or so of line, plus one at the top for securing to the tower with a quick-link or the like.

- Jim

[kd5wyu]

I may be able to help with the 501.c3 app as my club renewed ours fairly recently, if no one else has volunteered.

I've dropped a note to our secretary/treasurer to see if he has a soft copy of the paperwork I can share.

By "flagship", I would gather you mean 146.820- that is out east of Hutchinson?
I really hope that system doesn't go away, the coverage is excellent.

-Brent

[Wowbagger]

I may be able to help with the 501.c3 app as my club renewed ours fairly recently, if no one else has volunteered.

I've dropped a note to our secretary/treasurer to see if he has a soft copy of the paperwork I can share.

Great! I'd appreciate that.

By "flagship", I would gather you mean 146.820- that is out east of Hutchinson?
I really hope that system doesn't go away, the coverage is excellent.

-Brent

That is correct. And yes, I'd hate to see the machine go off the air permanently, but without some serious money there's no way we can replace the feedlines.

[xmo]

Hunt around the office for an old 2975, Com120 or the like and get your boss to donate it to the ham club. Then auction it off to raise the money.

The company gets a tax write-off & the hams get their problem solved.

[kd5wyu]

Here is our purpose statement from the IRS letter as written by our sec/treasurer.

"The DCARA is a volunteer organization composed of more than 130 amateur radio operators. We provide emergency back up communications to Denton County and the City of Denton in times of emergency. We also work closely with the National Weather Service during severe weather season as part of the Skywarn program."

You'll need a statement from your club's treasurer stating that the club has gross receipts less than 25k a year for as far back as you can, and the following IRS forms, which I assume can be downloaded as PDFs from the IRS site.

1. Form 990EZ, signed and dated by your treasurer.
2. Schedule A to Form 990EZ.
3. Notice from the IRS regarding Form 990 for the Tax Year ending December 30, 1997, stating that the organization’s gross receipts were normally less than $25,000 and therefore that the organization was not required to file Form 990.

This was for a renewal of an existing 501.c3 that was suspended since USPS lost some mail from the IRS.

I'd probably also see if you have a CPA or similar in the club that can review and assist with getting the financial ducks in a row, its likely you do in that club.

If you'd like to see the whole letter I'll be happy to shoot it to you. Can PM me with an email address if you don't want to post it on the thread.

I see from warc1.org that .82 is pretty much DOA now. That has to put a huge hurt on Skywarn at ICT.

Serious money is not going to be an understatement, the quote one of the repeater owners here got for a similar situation was $100K+, so needless to say
that 2m/440 system that was well used by the community and by the NWS to get directly into one of the northern counties is no longer in service.

-Brent

[Wowbagger]

Hunt around the office for an old 2975, Com120 or the like and get your boss to donate it to the ham club. Then auction it off to raise the money.

The company gets a tax write-off & the hams get their problem solved.

Unfortunately, that would only work were WARC a 501c3, which it is not. I checked.