This is been talked about in previous posts that I have seen but none gave any concrete info on what to do. I have a Director II SV pager on UHF and I would like to make it behave like a minitor II pager. In the previous posts I read on the board on this subject it looks like you had to add the parts for the squelch circuit or the decoder board had to have the "auto reset" option parts on it which was supposedly according to what I read the same thing as the squelch circuit - this pager has those parts on the board as far as I can see. And looking at the service manual I have it does seem to look like a squelch circuit.
One post made many years ago said to get rid of a resistor R321 which I cannot find on the schematic in the manual and to open up the selector/mode switch to its third position by bending up a tab which I did do. Is there anything else that has to be done? Jumper settings on the board need to change, additional parts, etc? The pager does alert and vibrate with the tone filters it has and if you hold the carrier after you tone the pager out the message comes through the speaker. If you drop the carrier then transmit the message after a short time then the audio does not come through the speaker. I know one way would be to get a decoder board from a minitor II and swap the RF board but I'd like to find a way to work with what I already have.
Yes this is old stuff but any info would be great.
Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Moderator: Queue Moderator
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
A DII SV with decoder board NRN6702A can be made to act like a MII SV by removing resistor R321. That is all that needs to be done. You don't even have to hassle with desoldering it, just pop it off with a pair of small needlenose pliers, it couldn't be any quicker or simpler. See attached photos for exact location and before/after removal (inside of decoder board, under the volume pot).
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/ ... before.jpg
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/ ... /after.jpg
As you noted, the selector switch tab needs to be bent to enable the Position 3, which becomes the monitor position. As long as jumper 3A4 is open (which is most likely already is), the pager will also alert/record in monitor mode. If for some reason you don't want the pager to alert/record while in monitor mode, go ahead and close 3A4 to disable Position 3 paging. Just note that 3A4 is usually not marked on the decoder board, see attached photo for location.
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/res6cue/3A4.jpg
If the pager keeps the squelch wide open when you turn it on until you manually reset it, you can close jumper 3D5 to stop that behavior.
To stop the pager from auto-resetting after an alert is received, open jumper 3C6.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/ ... before.jpg
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/ ... /after.jpg
As you noted, the selector switch tab needs to be bent to enable the Position 3, which becomes the monitor position. As long as jumper 3A4 is open (which is most likely already is), the pager will also alert/record in monitor mode. If for some reason you don't want the pager to alert/record while in monitor mode, go ahead and close 3A4 to disable Position 3 paging. Just note that 3A4 is usually not marked on the decoder board, see attached photo for location.
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/res6cue/3A4.jpg
If the pager keeps the squelch wide open when you turn it on until you manually reset it, you can close jumper 3D5 to stop that behavior.
To stop the pager from auto-resetting after an alert is received, open jumper 3C6.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Wow - thank you very much for the info with pictures. I'll give this a try and see how it goes.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
My pleasure, let us know how it turns out.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Well removing that resistor did allow monitoring of the frequency at position 3 - very good. The service manual I have is for the non SV Director II models which is why I did not see R321. The decoder board is indeed NRN6702A.
There is an issue I think with the auto reset feature. The pager alerts when you send the correct tones (I used an HT1250 to test this setting up QCII calling) but when you drop the carrier and then transmit again on the frequency nothing comes through the pager speaker which sounds like auto reset is still in effect even though it was disabled by getting rid of the solder on jumper 3C6. If you hold the carrier after sending the tones then the voice comes through the speaker (no carrier/signal drop). Can the pager be set with the right jumpers to allow the receiver to open and allow the carrier drop so you can hear the call and say do a manual reset somehow? Maybe I'm not getting how auto reset works.
There is an issue I think with the auto reset feature. The pager alerts when you send the correct tones (I used an HT1250 to test this setting up QCII calling) but when you drop the carrier and then transmit again on the frequency nothing comes through the pager speaker which sounds like auto reset is still in effect even though it was disabled by getting rid of the solder on jumper 3C6. If you hold the carrier after sending the tones then the voice comes through the speaker (no carrier/signal drop). Can the pager be set with the right jumpers to allow the receiver to open and allow the carrier drop so you can hear the call and say do a manual reset somehow? Maybe I'm not getting how auto reset works.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Hmm, I was sure that opening 3C6 would stop the pager from auto-resetting. What you've described is the normal auto-reset behavior, it's supposed to go silent when the carrier drops. What position on the function switch are you noticing this behavior, all three? Also, is the voice module continuing to record for the correct length of time regardless of the pager auto-resetting? It's been a while since I've played around with one of these modified DII SV's, so my memory is a little fuzzy.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Turn pot R503 to maximum counterclockwise position or remove jumper 3D5.
Bob
Bob
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Turning pot R503 max counterclockwise would result in the squelch being wide open, which would be counterproductive when the pager is in "monitor" mode. Opening jumper 3D5 makes more sense, as it would not allow the squelch to auto-reset. The drawback to opening 3D5 is that the pager will hold the squelch open on power-up until manually reset, and it will also remain open after an alert while the pager is in record mode until it times out or is reset.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Thanks Bob - rotating R503 to fully open (no squelch) did work - you get the test page with the dropped carrier and the message. It even stores the message/plays back no problem. Does removing 3D5 give you the advantage of keeping the squelch up and still allowing a dropped carrier page? Or is this the best you can get with this? If you rotate R503 then the monitor setting you set up on position 3 is not squelched just like res6cue said.
The drawbacks of removing 3D5 are not the end of the world but of course the downside I guess is if you leave the pager on unattended and you get an alert then the pager will sit there unsquelched untile you reset it which could be annoying and could drain the battery down. Or maybe I did not get that right - the squelch is open until the SV recorder times out after an alert (16 secs or so per message)?
I see where 3D5 is on the model specifc info for the Minitor II SV on the main batlabs page so I'll check it out. Thank you (all of you) for the info on this.
The drawbacks of removing 3D5 are not the end of the world but of course the downside I guess is if you leave the pager on unattended and you get an alert then the pager will sit there unsquelched untile you reset it which could be annoying and could drain the battery down. Or maybe I did not get that right - the squelch is open until the SV recorder times out after an alert (16 secs or so per message)?
I see where 3D5 is on the model specifc info for the Minitor II SV on the main batlabs page so I'll check it out. Thank you (all of you) for the info on this.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
I have to test this out further, or perhaps Bob will help us out some more before I get a chance to test all the jumper settings fully.
With a Minitor II SV, having 3D5 closed does not adversely affect the alerting function. The pager alerts and records normally, and reverts to carrier squelch until manually reset, no blaring white noise. I would've expected the Director II SV to behave similarly once the R321 is removed. The open squelch is certainly no big deal on power-up, a quick pop of the reset/monitor button and you're all set. However if the squelch remains wide open after an alert, that is definitely an issue. In that regard, the pager would behave no differently than a standard Director II which remains open after an alert until manual reset. Ideally the best solution would be to have the pager revert to carrier squelch once the alert/recording is complete.
486, I would suggest opening both 3D5 and 3C6 with the squelch pot adjusted to normal, and give it a test in all three function switch positions. I'm curious what the results are, and whether the pager will revert to carrier squelch once the recording times out. Unfortunately I don't have one of these pagers handy at the moment to test it myself, otherwise I would.
With a Minitor II SV, having 3D5 closed does not adversely affect the alerting function. The pager alerts and records normally, and reverts to carrier squelch until manually reset, no blaring white noise. I would've expected the Director II SV to behave similarly once the R321 is removed. The open squelch is certainly no big deal on power-up, a quick pop of the reset/monitor button and you're all set. However if the squelch remains wide open after an alert, that is definitely an issue. In that regard, the pager would behave no differently than a standard Director II which remains open after an alert until manual reset. Ideally the best solution would be to have the pager revert to carrier squelch once the alert/recording is complete.
486, I would suggest opening both 3D5 and 3C6 with the squelch pot adjusted to normal, and give it a test in all three function switch positions. I'm curious what the results are, and whether the pager will revert to carrier squelch once the recording times out. Unfortunately I don't have one of these pagers handy at the moment to test it myself, otherwise I would.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
The reason I suggested opening R503 or removing 3D5 was to facilitate the desire to defeat the auto-reset and to simply hear and record the
full message, allowing the user to reset the audio at the desired time.
The NRN6702A system-decoder board is a bit of a weird bird. It was never designed for true squelch use.
The standard Director II SV used the NRN6764A. For customers wanting auto-reset, Motorola designed the NRN6702A.
What looks like the squelch circuit (it really is) was designed specifically to produce auto-reset when the received signal ceases.
The board layout of the NRN6702A is different from the NRN7795A that is used with the Minitor II SV.
People are more familiar with the auto-reset feature on the NSV Director II. For the NSV Director II, Motorola used the standard
NRN6190A Minitor II Decoder Board, when auto-reset was desired. That made it very easy to convert a auto-reset Director II to
a standard Minitor II.
You can get the NRN6702A that you have to provide a traditional squelch for monitoring, but you will need to slice and dice the board a little.
You are O.K. with R321 and 3C6 removed.
Remove 3D5
On the back side of the board, cut the trace from Stored Voice Module U601 Pin 3
Install a jumper from U601 Pin 4 to Pin 8
Install jumper 3D2
Set R503 as you normally would.
That should do it.
Bob
full message, allowing the user to reset the audio at the desired time.
The NRN6702A system-decoder board is a bit of a weird bird. It was never designed for true squelch use.
The standard Director II SV used the NRN6764A. For customers wanting auto-reset, Motorola designed the NRN6702A.
What looks like the squelch circuit (it really is) was designed specifically to produce auto-reset when the received signal ceases.
The board layout of the NRN6702A is different from the NRN7795A that is used with the Minitor II SV.
People are more familiar with the auto-reset feature on the NSV Director II. For the NSV Director II, Motorola used the standard
NRN6190A Minitor II Decoder Board, when auto-reset was desired. That made it very easy to convert a auto-reset Director II to
a standard Minitor II.
You can get the NRN6702A that you have to provide a traditional squelch for monitoring, but you will need to slice and dice the board a little.
You are O.K. with R321 and 3C6 removed.
Remove 3D5
On the back side of the board, cut the trace from Stored Voice Module U601 Pin 3
Install a jumper from U601 Pin 4 to Pin 8
Install jumper 3D2
Set R503 as you normally would.
That should do it.
Bob
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Great info as always, Bob, your wealth of knowledge is much appreciated!
What would be the effect of leaving 3D5 closed after making those modifications? With the NRN7795A board, 3D5 closed (3C6 open) only seems to affect the open squelch during power up, and between drops in the carrier after alerting while the SV module is recording. With it open the squelch will be open upon power-up until reset, and post-alert for the duration of the recording time, after which the pager will return to normal carrier squelch operation. Do I have that correct? If so, would the modified NRN6702A behave the same way with 3D5 closed and 3C6 open?
What would be the effect of leaving 3D5 closed after making those modifications? With the NRN7795A board, 3D5 closed (3C6 open) only seems to affect the open squelch during power up, and between drops in the carrier after alerting while the SV module is recording. With it open the squelch will be open upon power-up until reset, and post-alert for the duration of the recording time, after which the pager will return to normal carrier squelch operation. Do I have that correct? If so, would the modified NRN6702A behave the same way with 3D5 closed and 3C6 open?
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Good info -
When I ran my tests with 3D5 removed the squelch stayed open until you reset it manually. In reality with the alerts I would get on this the carrier does not drop like what I am doing with my testing. For my testing that was set up on the HT1250 the QCII call alerted the pager and then you need to go to another radio or get out of the radio call function on the radio to transmit your voice - so the carrier drops. In a real alert I usually get the whole thing without the carrier dropping so perhaps closing up 3D5 again and not worrying about anything else will be fine for me.
I do not have a schematic for the Director II SV so playing around with the SV module to do the slice and dice may not be a good idea for me to attempt since I would not probably be able to figure out the pins.
A bit off topic with this but related to the Minitor/Director RF boards - where can you get a "diddle stick" or tuning tool to adjust the various trimmer caps to do an alignment on the board? The coils you can tune with a slotted stick but the caps require something else to allow tuning from what I can see.
When I ran my tests with 3D5 removed the squelch stayed open until you reset it manually. In reality with the alerts I would get on this the carrier does not drop like what I am doing with my testing. For my testing that was set up on the HT1250 the QCII call alerted the pager and then you need to go to another radio or get out of the radio call function on the radio to transmit your voice - so the carrier drops. In a real alert I usually get the whole thing without the carrier dropping so perhaps closing up 3D5 again and not worrying about anything else will be fine for me.
I do not have a schematic for the Director II SV so playing around with the SV module to do the slice and dice may not be a good idea for me to attempt since I would not probably be able to figure out the pins.
A bit off topic with this but related to the Minitor/Director RF boards - where can you get a "diddle stick" or tuning tool to adjust the various trimmer caps to do an alignment on the board? The coils you can tune with a slotted stick but the caps require something else to allow tuning from what I can see.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
If the carrier dropping between tones and message is not a real-world issue for you, then you're probably better off closing 3D5 and enjoying your pseudo-MII SV without butchering the board.
That being said, you don't need the schematics to perform the minor surgery Bob detailed. Everything is actually labeled on the back of the decoder board. He's talking about the pins for the SV module, which are all individually numbered, and jumper 3D2 is also labeled on that board.
That being said, you don't need the schematics to perform the minor surgery Bob detailed. Everything is actually labeled on the back of the decoder board. He's talking about the pins for the SV module, which are all individually numbered, and jumper 3D2 is also labeled on that board.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
I tried out the "surgery" and sure enough on the alert mode in position 1 you can drop the carrier and the squelch opens up for the duration of the message length set on the SV module (16 secs default I guess). If there is no carrier you hear the white noise like the squelch is wide open. After the 16 seconds you stop hearing anything from the speaker and the message is stored. On Vibrate mode now things are like monitor mode as seen in position 3 but when you send the tones the pager does vibrate and store the message.
Monitor mode in position 3 works as before. With these changes can you get vibrate mode to open like the position 1 alert mode? It is not the biggest deal if that's the best that can be done with this since Minitor II's do not vibrate as far as I know and these changes are making the pager work like one. Maybe they (Minitor II's) did have a vibrate option but I don't know.
Thanks again for all the info -
Monitor mode in position 3 works as before. With these changes can you get vibrate mode to open like the position 1 alert mode? It is not the biggest deal if that's the best that can be done with this since Minitor II's do not vibrate as far as I know and these changes are making the pager work like one. Maybe they (Minitor II's) did have a vibrate option but I don't know.
Thanks again for all the info -
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
Bob,MOTO_LR wrote:
You can get the NRN6702A that you have to provide a traditional squelch for monitoring, but you will need to slice and dice the board a little.
You are O.K. with R321 and 3C6 removed.
Remove 3D5
On the back side of the board, cut the trace from Stored Voice Module U601 Pin 3
Install a jumper from U601 Pin 4 to Pin 8
Install jumper 3D2
Set R503 as you normally would.
That should do it.
Bob
I just compared the schematics for the DII SV and MII SV, and something doesn't seem right. Shouldn't it be the trace from U601 Pin 8 that is cut, not Pin 3?
If I'm reading this correctly, what ultimately needs to be accomplished is U601 Pin 4 and Pin 8 need to be connected to each other, same as they are on the MII SV. U601 Pin 3 needs to go to both U302 Pin 11 (which it already does), as well as U301 (the latter accomplished by closing 3D2). It looks like the connection between U601 Pin 8 to U301 needs to be broken to match the MII SV.
Can you please confirm that it's Pin 8's trace to be cut, and not Pin 3? Thanks.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
res6cue wrote:Bob,MOTO_LR wrote:
You can get the NRN6702A that you have to provide a traditional squelch for monitoring, but you will need to slice and dice the board a little.
You are O.K. with R321 and 3C6 removed.
Remove 3D5
On the back side of the board, cut the trace from Stored Voice Module U601 Pin 3
Install a jumper from U601 Pin 4 to Pin 8
Install jumper 3D2
Set R503 as you normally would.
That should do it.
Bob
I just compared the schematics for the DII SV and MII SV, and something doesn't seem right. Shouldn't it be the trace from U601 Pin 8 that is cut, not Pin 3?
If I'm reading this correctly, what ultimately needs to be accomplished is U601 Pin 4 and Pin 8 need to be connected to each other, same as they are on the MII SV. U601 Pin 3 needs to go to both U302 Pin 11 (which it already does), as well as U301 (the latter accomplished by closing 3D2). It looks like the connection between U601 Pin 8 to U301 needs to be broken to match the MII SV.
Can you please confirm that it's Pin 8's trace to be cut, and not Pin 3? Thanks.
You are absolutely correct, the trace from Pin 8 is the one to cut.
When I wrote those instructions I was looking at an actual board that I had converted.
My jumper was covering the board area where I cut the trace from Pin 8. I followed
what I thought was the cut trace to the wrong pin of U601. After your message, I found the
schematic and it is obvious that it is Pin 8.
Thanks for catching the mistake!
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
I tried making the changes on this to the board with reconnecting the trace on pin 3 and cutting pin 8 and I did not notice any difference. Now it could be that the jumpers I made to reconnect the trace, etc are not correct somehow. I did look at the traces with a 10x loupe to verify what to cut/restore but I could be wrong. What does this change give you (cutting 
over what was before (cutting 3)? As I said before I do not have schematics/manuals for the SV models so I cannot look this up.
Anyhow, the pager alerts with the tones and goes open squelch for the time interval set by the SV module jumpers (16 seconds), the monitor function does work with the squelch, and you can play back the stored messages after the SV module times out after the 16 seconds. I do not know how the Minitor II SV behaves differently than this.
Very good info though from everyone on this - thanks again.
over what was before (cutting 3)? As I said before I do not have schematics/manuals for the SV models so I cannot look this up.Anyhow, the pager alerts with the tones and goes open squelch for the time interval set by the SV module jumpers (16 seconds), the monitor function does work with the squelch, and you can play back the stored messages after the SV module times out after the 16 seconds. I do not know how the Minitor II SV behaves differently than this.
Very good info though from everyone on this - thanks again.
Re: Director II SV Pager to Minitor II
No problem, Bob...thanks for posting the information in the first place! After comparing the schematics your modification made perfect sense.
486, if you're looking for a service manual with schematics for the DII SV, you can find one here.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0085003979
486, if you're looking for a service manual with schematics for the DII SV, you can find one here.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0085003979