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Dual Boot Setup Assistance

This forum is dedicated to the general computer related issues we all come across on a daily basis, such as e-mail/Internet/Operating System/virus/spyware, etc questions & problems.

As we are primarily a radio discussion group, your mileage may vary on the responses.

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train_radio_guy
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Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby train_radio_guy » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:25 pm

I'm setting up a laptop for a friend. He's requested that it be configured to boot, from one of two different operating systems: DOS 6.22 & Windows 95/98SE. I've never attempted this before, and was open to suggestions from the board members, that are more savy than myself, when it comes to PC's.

There are a few boot managers out there, however I don't know which ones still support DOS or the early Windows 9X OS's. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

- trg, 8)
"Trust me, I know what I'm doing!" - Sledge Hammer

Jim202
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby Jim202 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:27 pm

train_radio_guy wrote:I'm setting up a laptop for a friend. He's requested that it be configured to boot, from one of two different operating systems: DOS 6.22 & Windows 95/98SE. I've never attempted this before, and was open to suggestions from the board members, that are more savy than myself, when it comes to PC's.

There are a few boot managers out there, however I don't know which ones still support DOS or the early Windows 9X OS's. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

- trg, 8)



The simple way is to set up 2 partitions on the hard drive. The drive needs to be formatted in a FAT16 or a FAT32 format if you have any size of a hard drive. Reason for the FAT16 or FAT32 is that DOS will not work on the NTFS format. Set up one partition for DOS and the other one you install the Windows into.

When the computer boots up, then you will have the option of picking which one you want.

Jim

KB2ZTX
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby KB2ZTX » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:05 am

I dont recall the spot but sure if you google it you can find it. I setup my PC to not boot Windows. Basically boots up in DOS. If I want windows I type WIN and then it starts. It was a simple change in regedit if i recall.
KB2ZTX

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train_radio_guy
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby train_radio_guy » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:26 am

When in one partition, files are not accessible from the other, are they? Basically DOS applications reside in the DOS partition, and Windows applications reside in the Windows partition.

The other thing to consider is the processor speed. If the computer is fast enough to run Windows 95/98SE 'comfortably', it might be too fast for certain DOS applications. Essentially, DOS applications that rely upon slower software loops, might not ‘like’ a 75 MHz clock.

Just a few thoughts......

- trg, 8)
"Trust me, I know what I'm doing!" - Sledge Hammer

Jim202
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby Jim202 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:21 am

train_radio_guy wrote:When in one partition, files are not accessible from the other, are they? Basically DOS applications reside in the DOS partition, and Windows applications reside in the Windows partition.

The other thing to consider is the processor speed. If the computer is fast enough to run Windows 95/98SE 'comfortably', it might be too fast for certain DOS applications. Essentially, DOS applications that rely upon slower software loops, might not ‘like’ a 75 MHz clock.

Just a few thoughts......

- trg, 8)



I haven't seen any issues until you get into the 600 to 800 MHz clock speeds. Not all computers function the same though, so your mileage might vary from computer to computer. I regularly use a 400 MHz clock to program Syntor X9000 radios. Your results will also vary with which software package your trying to use. This even happens while trying to program Spectra radios.

Jim

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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby train_radio_guy » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:13 pm

So I guess the next question is what partitioning software is recommended, for the older computers? I've heard of Boot Magic, as well as Partition Magic, but do they work with DOS & Windows 95/98SE? From what I can tell, most of them cater towards W2K, WXP, Vista, 7, & 8. Perhaps an older version of the partitioning software, if it's archived somewhere on the net.
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wavetar
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby wavetar » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:40 am

You really don't need to dual boot DOS and Win 98. By far the easiest thing to do is simply install Win 98 and then use the 'MS-DOS Mode for Games with EMS and XMS Support' icon, located in the C:\Windows directory. Double clicking that will reboot your computer into DOS, without loading any aspect of Windows. You can even reboot your computer and it'll still come up in DOS. You'll need to type 'exit' in order to get back out of DOS and reboot back into Windows. It works every bit as well as DOS 6.22, and in some cases, for the newer more memory intense RSS, even better. If you do a search here on the board for "MS-DOS Mode for Games" you'll find many different threads and see it's been used by many different members here with no issues I can recall. It even worked for some people who couldn't get a particular RSS package to work properly with a DOS 6.22 boot disk.
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby train_radio_guy » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:00 pm

Fair enough. I thought there were some early DOS-Based RSS packages, which preferred running under the older DOS (pre-Windows) environment.

Once I take care of my friend's laptop with W98SE, I thought about trying to sell, some of the older laptops in my 'warehouse', before their only home is the recycling bin. Some of them are so old, they probably won't support much more than DOS 6.22 & Windows 3.11 (386/486 vintage). Yet another winter project.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

- trg, 8)
"Trust me, I know what I'm doing!" - Sledge Hammer

Jim202
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby Jim202 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:20 am

train_radio_guy wrote:Fair enough. I thought there were some early DOS-Based RSS packages, which preferred running under the older DOS (pre-Windows) environment.

Once I take care of my friend's laptop with W98SE, I thought about trying to sell, some of the older laptops in my 'warehouse', before their only home is the recycling bin. Some of them are so old, they probably won't support much more than DOS 6.22 & Windows 3.11 (386/486 vintage). Yet another winter project.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

- trg, 8)



Just remember that if you want to save any of the older codeplugs onto the hard drive, that the hard drive must be in the FAT16 or FAT32 format. the old DOS software will not see a hard drive that has the NTFS format.

Some of the older radio software will run under a DOS window and some will not. It partly depends on the software and computer combination. You may have to run a small program called "CACHEOFF.COM" to get both the radio software and computer to play together. The programs will generally start up, but when you go to the second window it bombs out with different errors.

I have a couple of computers running as high as an 800 MHz clock and still works stable on Spectra and Syntor X9000 radios. But I say it again, not all computers will do this.

Jim

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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby train_radio_guy » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:41 am

From the sound of things, it's just a whole lot easier, if DOS applications stay on the DOS 'box', and Windows applications stay on the Windows 'Box'. Seems like a pain, but alleviates the guessing game of which app runs on which computer.

Are there early Windows-based RSS apps; say that ran under W95/98SE, but won't run under WXP or W7? Just trying to get an idea of how many discreet computers one would need, to maintain backward compatibility, across all RSS apps. I suspect anything that ran under W2K works on WXP, but not sure when the 32 to 64 bit crossover takes place, if there's another 'road block' in terms of running a particular RSS.

- trg, 8)
"Trust me, I know what I'm doing!" - Sledge Hammer

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wavetar
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby wavetar » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:26 am

train_radio_guy wrote:From the sound of things, it's just a whole lot easier, if DOS applications stay on the DOS 'box', and Windows applications stay on the Windows 'Box'. Seems like a pain, but alleviates the guessing game of which app runs on which computer.

Are there early Windows-based RSS apps; say that ran under W95/98SE, but won't run under WXP or W7? Just trying to get an idea of how many discreet computers one would need, to maintain backward compatibility, across all RSS apps. I suspect anything that ran under W2K works on WXP, but not sure when the 32 to 64 bit crossover takes place, if there's another 'road block' in terms of running a particular RSS.

- trg, 8)


FYI, the method I outlined is not a "DOS Window", it's a real DOS mode that'll work with any RSS package, processor speed issues aside.

There are some early versions of Windows based RSS, such as for the 1225 series radios, which will not work with 2000/XP. Up to version 3.2 will work under 95/98...beyond that you require version 4.0. There were corresponding "LS" versions of the software for LTR based 1225 radios with the same caveats, but don't recall the versions. MTR2000 seems to work well in any Windows OS I've tried it in.

Pretty much any other Windows based packages are referred to as "CPS" (customer programming software) and the latest versions of which will run under XP/Vista/Win7 32-bit without much issue. There can be USB driver issues with 64-bit OS's. Although many of these older CPS versions ran on 95/98/ME, the newer versions do not support those earlier OS's.

If you're trying to support older HT600/MT1000/Syntor/Saber/Etc radios, you'll need two computers. Otherwise, you can very likely get away with one.
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train_radio_guy
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby train_radio_guy » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:12 am

Thanks for the clarification. Since most of my apps are for earlier model radios, such as GP300, HT1000/JT1000, MT1000, HT600, Radius/Maxtrac, 1225, & Railroad Spectra, the DOS/Window 95/98SE Configuration will probably be the route I go.

BTW, when I mentioned DOS 'box' or Windows 'box', I wasn't actually referring to the desktop; rather I was referring to the computer itself. Sorry about the confusion - computer slang I've inherited, thanks to working with IT all day long.

As far as the older laptops (i.e. 386/486 variety), would it be better to load just DOS, or DOS & Windows 3.11?


Thanks,

- trg, 8)
"Trust me, I know what I'm doing!" - Sledge Hammer

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wavetar
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Re: Dual Boot Setup Assistance

Postby wavetar » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:01 am

train_radio_guy wrote:
As far as the older laptops (i.e. 386/486 variety), would it be better to load just DOS, or DOS & Windows 3.11?

Thanks,

- trg, 8)


Since you do work with 1225 stuff, there's no harm in loading Win 3.11 as well. Although, to keep it simple, if you are going to have a newer computer with Win98SE you could do the 1225 stuff on that and keep the older computer DOS only...up to you really.

I ran laptops with dual boot Win98SE & XP for many years and never had to break out the old 386 other than for HT600 (flakey on newer PC's), MXC1000 and i20r programming. Win98 Games Mode did everything else DOS based.
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