Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

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jts203
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Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by jts203 »

Checking to see if anyone else has found any problems with CPS version 10.00.00 for the XTS5000. I loaded my new copy of version 10 downloaded from the Motorola website and read my VHF XTS5000 to change a channel. When I went to load the codeplug back in, I got a warning box that came up and states - "This archive cannot be written to this radio. The firmware version in this radio requires 15 zones, 16 channels per zone, and 240 conventional personalities. Each channel must sequentially point to a unique personailty. Please modity Etc Etc." My UHF twin to this radio does the same. Both radios work fine and both program and read with no problems in CPS 09.01.02. They are loaded with numerous channels. Both have a Flash of 5A9008-101E87-8 and the firmware is 08.00.10 in the VHF and 09.00.00 in the UHF. Like I say, just reading a working codeplug from a working radio will not program back into the radio.

Thanks

John
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escomm
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by escomm »

Because you have Federal-subscriber FPP you will need version 10 firmware in the radio for the CPS to work. The CPS knows the radio is capable of new operations but the radio doesn't.

Good luck getting a firmware up on that whore :lol:
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alex
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by alex »

I don't believe that to be the case.

IF I had to guess, I would tend to think the following:

Origionally, I remember seeing FPP radios which were required to have 240 personalities, and the corresponding channel/zone compliment, so that there was a 1 Pers:1 channel relationship. The reasoning for this relationship becomes painfully clear when later radios with different options (and to be honest, I can't remember quick Q is which with respect to what I'm saying), that then, it was setup so that you could make your zones and personalities however you wanted. So you could have 6 personalities covering 850 conventional channels if you damn well choose.

What is the problem with this? It's because if you go in and FPP a channel, you have the option to choose either analog/digital/mixed modulations for tx/rx. Remembering that you now have a 1 personality to many channels, Modulation is a PERSONALITY option. Changing this option, will effect the other channels, potentially inadvertently. So, a channel you then change to thinking it was still modulation type X, is now really set as Y.

Make sense?

It has to do with relationships. What Motorola needs to do is move the modulation type from the personality setting to the actual zone/channel assignment. Each personality must then have both analog and digitial signaling options changeable based upon whatever mode the user slides in into. Currently, for example, if your analog only, it'll gray out astro options, and vice versa. They should just move the analog digital choice to the personality, or simply, remove the ability to change modulation on the fly (something for most people isn't an issue, but seems to be a cool feature).

It's a pretty big design change, I don't know if I see them fixing it. Depends on how loudly people stomp their feet in the right meetings at APCO.

I do see the other side of the coin:

You FPP a channel. You swap zones and go to another one a couple hours later. You get in to a snafoo, and call for help, but no one hears you because you forgot about the modulation type changes. The average field user doesn't know and understand how radios are programmed, thus, making this a nesecary evil.

Don't say you weren't warned - from what it looks like in other posts... it's in the readme.

-Alex
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jts203
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by jts203 »

I see what Alex is saying. But the readme says they enhanced the FPP making it capable of more channels, not less, so why it works fine in 09.01.02 and not in 10.00.00 seems like a step backward from the geniuses at M.
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alex
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by alex »

jts203 wrote:I see what Alex is saying. But the readme says they enhanced the FPP making it capable of more channels, not less, so why it works fine in 09.01.02 and not in 10.00.00 seems like a step backward from the geniuses at M.
Maybe Jeff is right then, I don't know. I just was making a guess as to what it could be.

From what I hear, Firmware 10.x is not out yet, and why on earth a company would release a software package without releasing the firmware - is kinda beyond me....
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escomm
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by escomm »

Well it does say in the readme that v. 10 firmware is necessary for the new features to work.

I doubt there's a way to tell the new CPS you're working with an old radio, and have it go back to the old feature set when allowing programming and writing to the radio... but that kind of foresight?

Well... it looks like you're gonna have to wait for the firmware upgrades to come out to play with the new CPS, otherwise you're stuck using using the "older" software.
akardam
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by akardam »

jts203 wrote:Both have a Flash of 5A9008-101E87-8 ...
Ahh, you have special flash, grasshoppa...

This is what I surmise: Prior to CPS/Host R10, if you had FPP, you were supposed to have Q53 (and maybe Q52 as well), and your radio's codeplug was locked at 240 Pers/Channels in a 1:1 arrangement.

Now, certian radios out there have only Q52, and unlocked codeplugs, thus it would seem that CPS prior to R10 wouldn't check for the 240/1:1, or didn't care.

Now that CPS R10 is out, codeplug checking for proper arrangement on FPP radios would seem to be in place. In this particular case, CPS R10 says, this codeplug is FPP, layed out outside of the normal 240/1:1 arrangement, but doesn't have Host R10 (which as far as the CPS knows is necessary to support this arrangement), thus, something is wrong, and it doesn't let you write the codeplug back into the radio.

So, as others have said, your only solution for the time being is to continue to use a previous version of CPS.

I've theorized that Mother M releases the new CPS prior to shipping the new firmware to make sure that people have it before the new firmware starts hitting radios. If you have new CPS with older firmware, generally not a problem (except in cases like this where you can at least revert to a previous CPS), but if you have older CPS and new firmware, often times you're SOL.
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MotoRadioMan
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by MotoRadioMan »

Something else worth checking after you've written a Q52 flashed radio with CPS 10 is if you still have access to FPP. I've heard from a few guys with pretty well loaded XTS5Ks, who wrote them with CPS 10. The FPP option still shows valid under the radio information tab, but no longer exists in the radio menu or in conventional menu assignment. I wonder if /\/\ is trying to even the score on the large number of Q52 radios on the street.

A. D.
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compuman81
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by compuman81 »

If you write the radio with version 10 CPS, you will need to set it up like the dialog box tells you to. This will work with earlier firmware, however it will update your codeplug structure, so don't expect to go back to just making as many personalities you wanted like you could with 9, you're stuck with that static structure thereafter.

The people with FPP missing in their menus need to configure the zones/personalities exactly like the CPS describes, otherwise the radio firmware ( any ) won't display FPP with the new codeplug version ( 0x15 )
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MotoRadioMan
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by MotoRadioMan »

This was done on a Firmware Rev. 9.xx radio. And even getting it setup "correctly" was a REAL pain in the hind quarters. Even after proper assignments have been made, FPP isn't even an option in the conventional menu configuration, least of all on the radio. And it WAS there when it was read. Even if it's just a glitch we are finding, it's a pain. I understand why they are doing it the way they are. But in my mind, it's reason enough to pass on upgrading to 10.0.

A.D.
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The Pager Geek
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by The Pager Geek »

Q52 Only w/ 9.x firmware: You will lose FPP with Version 10 CPS
Q52 and Q53 w/ 9.x firmware: You are forced to do the 240pers: 15zone: 16ch set-up, and you will keep FPP

Unknown what version 10 FIRMWARE corrects in regards to FPP, if anything.

tpg
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astrousa
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by astrousa »

Anyone know when will Host/DSP 10 be released?
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MotoRadioMan
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by MotoRadioMan »

Don't know if Host 10 is in circulation yet, but it IS ready to be. And from what we've tried, it does not have any effect on the FPP issues noted.

A. D.
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mancow
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by mancow »

So, if I go in and change a channel from Analog to Digital or vice versa what personality is it choosing to reference the modulation mode? I may have several personalities that are analog and several that are digital with slight differences that are already assigned to zones.

I guess I could read it after FPP editing it and see what the changes are but I left my cable at work.

:x
CTAMontrose
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by CTAMontrose »

got in a VHF XTS2500i with FPP, required CPS10 to program.. you guessed it.. host/dsp 10.00.00
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MotoRadioMan
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by MotoRadioMan »

Which flash option?? Q52 or Q53??
CTAMontrose
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by CTAMontrose »

both...

havent had much time to play with it, was busy with other stuff today
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Monitor142
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by Monitor142 »

I received my XTS2500 S split UHF yesterday and it has Ver. 10 firmware so it's in distribution mode now.

Brian
astrousa
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by astrousa »

A fix will be out by the end of the month. Until then is it possible to download cps 9 on MOL until 10.01 is released??????
Purchased the portable version a few days ago, need it & it is on quality control hold until a fix comes out!
mike m
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Re: Astro 25 CPS 10 Possible Problem

Post by mike m »

I just ran into the same problem with a XTS5k with Q52/Q53 and firmware rev 4.

What happened was that you must have added a zone above zone number 15 and even if you deleted this zone after the error message you now have personality #241 showing up in the conventional personalties fields.

Unfortunately you cannot delete personality 241 once the cps creates it for you.

The fix is to read the radio again and do not add any new zones above zone 15 nor any new personalities above 240 then you can CPS anything else that you need to.

I can read and write all day to FPP radios with firmware 1, 4 or 9 just as long as I don't add any personalities above 240.

Now if I could only get my Q52, Q53 P25 trunking FPP firmware rev 10 radio to take trunking personalities in zones 16 to 50 I'd be happy but that's going to be fixed in firmware 10.01 or above.


Mike
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