Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

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efc
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Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by efc »

Hi,


Anybody heard of a "wolfsberg" avionics radio that use CPS software to prog?

Thank you
John
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by RadioSouth »

Unless they.ve changed they were fully FPP and there was no software. Commonly used by rescue choppers that could dial up what was needed to communicate with other agencies on the ground. But that's when everybody was on VHF and UHF.
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efc
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by efc »

Thanks, the cust. says that the radio is capable of 29.0mhz to 900 something, never heard
of this radio, Bendix King, but this is a new one. Apparently this one heck of a multiband radio.

Thank you
John
jts203
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by jts203 »

They can be programmed with Motorola CPS for Portable Radios [XTS5000]. They have their own programming cable but use standard Motorola Software. If it's a VHF/UHF combination radio, you actually read and write the VHF and UHF separately like they were two separate radios.
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by N4DES »

They are also do 800MHz to include trunking with the right featureset.
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FatBoy
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by FatBoy »

Technisonic is what is comonly used here. My customer has a bunch and they are all XTS3000 radio slices in the Technisonic housing. The ones I see are VHF, UHF, and 800 in one radio. Neat box, but a little expensive ( $20,000 ea). FatBoy
......I understand what the package says sir, but you cannot talk 28 miles with 3 AA batteries.......
mike m
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mike m »

The RT5000 has numerous analog AM/FM and digital P25 modules in it.

The main RT section is an analog FM/DES/AM ultra wide band transceiver with narrow band, standard band, wide band and and extra wide band transceiver capabilities.

This beast, weighing in close to 20 lbs, covers from 29.7 to 960 MHz.

Power output is 15 watts carrier, 60 watts PEP, AM from 29.7 to 400 MHz and 10 watts FM from 29.7 to 960 MHz with some lockout transmit frequencies, mainly NAV frequencies on transmit.

There are numerous sub band transceiver modules that can be swapped with the regular analog guard receiver module and it these guard transceivers which are P25 capable.

These sub band modules use an assortment of modified modules which are based on the Motorola XTS5000 or XTS3000 modules in them to cover the standard VHF hi, UHF ranges 1 and 2 and 700/800 MHz ranges in FM and or P25 conventional and trunking modes.

Hence the P25 guard transceiver modules use regular Motorola astro or astro 25 CPS, without the need for using a rib box or a motorola serial cable, we use an embedded Xlinx processor that MMICS everything required to eliminate either the Motorola RIB for the XST3000 or the standard serial cable for the XTS5000 versions.

The main RT module uses our own windoz programming software called RPWIN to download to the control head/main RT unit with all required information.

There are numerous configurations of the RT5000 that have up to 3 separate transceivers or 2 separate transceivers and 6 separate receivers in them, covering everything from regular Comm channels to specific search and rescue frequencies, there are way too many combos of this radio for me to remember without my cheat sheet handy.

Also at this time Wulfsberg radio is now just a radio line/name, our parent Co. is now Cobham Avionics out of England but the main Comm product lines are still located here in Prescott Arizona along with some of the NAT, Northern Airborne technology FM/P25 radio lines which are slowly being integrated with the legacy Wulfsberg radios.

Also the main 29.7 to 960 transceiver is not really a new radio, in fact when I designed the original transmitter/ power amplifier for this beast this was back in 1990 so it's going on close to 20 years for me and for this radio.

The p25 transceiver additions started just prior to the salt lake city Olympics, mainly the first designs were for US customs service but from there on they expanded to just about every other market/ agency that uses helicopters.

Mike
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efc
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by efc »

Thanks for all your great help. I realized later that it is spelled "wulfberg" duh never tried that for a search. Also went to see the cust. Quite interesting. It is for the Army, in OH 58 birds. I could not believe that the Rt5000 had 2 xts guts in it AND you get the codeplug info through a serial connection ,on the back of the transceiver! How cool is that. I was just fascinated with the whole thing. Yea you do use cps software to talk to and write to the radio, cool.......

Thanks again
John
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efc
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by efc »

Oh...... and the Avionics Sgt. tells me that this is the only radios like this in In, and he is going to Kentucky to get further traing from fellow soldiers on the unit. Wulfburg says " yea we will train you for 1800.0 a day, which apparently would take several days. Go figure. And the TR unit was 56,000.0 bucks. An dwe wonder about Gov. spending lol.
John
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by Tom in D.C. »

If you were to add the total cost, using separate radios, of a Wulfsburg multimode unit it would probably be more than $56K. For those of you to whom this subject is new, almost all medevac helicopters in the US use this radio, owing to the requirement that they be able to communicate with nearly every public service agency in their served area.
Tom in D.C.
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mike m »

Most if not all of the excessive cost of avionics is due to FAA regs.

Every screw, every flake of paint used anywhere in a radio, every bit of anodizing, every drop of post coat used on the circuit boards and every individual part including the type of solder used no matter what it was, has to have a paper trail back to the FAA.

This paper trail amounts to documentation that uses more trees than are in the Amazon forest.

As an engineer I probably spend more than 60% of my time doing paper work of some type just for the FAA.

If a part changes manufacturers hands it has to go thru re-certification and the paper mill all over again, even if it's the exact same part that was originally made 20 years ago but just a different manufacturer now.

Yes and Tom is correct on the requirements to be able to talk to anyone and everyone now, especially after 9-11.

As a result of constantly changing specifications, our engineering team Is constantly adding and options to this radio to meet new requirements on almost a yearly basis and that's why there are so many versions of the base model radio.

Oh the good old Ky NG, I worked with several Kiowa and Apache Pilots out of Tucson, who are now with they Ky ARNG group, back around 2000 when I was certifying the Oh-58's FLIR and RT5000 systems.

A Great bunch of pilots they are, they would fly up to Northern AZ for 1 or 2 weeks at a time during the certification process, boy they had some great war stories to tell.

And these pilots really loved to make the rounds at some of our original 1870's bars downtown, especially since these were some of the same locations of the bars that the Earp Brothers used to frequent prior to their Tombstone days.


Mike
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efc
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by efc »

Thanks for the info. I guess I have been a civilian too long to remember all the specs. that had to be met. My job in the Army was a 93D which is ATC comm. equip. repair,TVOR,IFF,RADAR,ILS FAN markers in additio to the tower comm. Yea, there are a lot of req. that the Feds. need. At that time,1986-1990 I am sure the regs were not as bad as they are now in lite of 911.Still fascinates me that the guts of the Motorolas are in the "transceiver" unit......... Plus the NG also uses Moto. for other forms of comm.

Thanks!
John
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mike m »

Actually they were just as bad back then as they are now, 9-11 didn't hinder or help us out one bit.

Another engineer who does or DME equipment mentions that we don't really design radios, we design new methods to use more paper work that designs the radios.

Mike
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efc
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by efc »

Yea, I could see that about the paperwork!
John
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mustanglane »

I can completely echo Mike's comments - having just retired from 23 years flying for US Customs, we have over 150 aircraft (and more every day) outfitted with this system. I am the national trainer for teaching enforcement personnel how to program (both Moto Astro/Saber CPS and Astro-25 CPS) and utilize this radio. I have personally used it as an ad-hoc airborne relay/simulcast system, joining two diverse agencies, and as an ad-hoc repeater, acting as the emergency replacement when a critical tower was out of service. We once had an individual in downtown New Orleans after Katrina using a Moto XTS3000 on a simplex VHF channel RELAY thru an overhead P-3 aircraft (yes, former Navy Sub-Hunter) and link to a US Customs repeater in Shreveport LA! I have also RELAYED a GARMIN Rhino radio on FRS channels thru an aircraft into the DOJ Integrated Wireless P-25 VHF Trunk sytstem. Yes, it will do trunking also! Can't think of a radio that is more "COOL"! While each of our aircraft have two of these multiband radios, each with one embedded Moto P-25 XTS3000 or XTS5000 in VHF-FM band, the USCG is now buying mixed systems on their birds such that one multiband has one VHF module (portable radio) and one 800 Mhz Moto Trunk Module, while the second multiband has one Moto UHF-FM module and one wulfsberg specific Search And Rescue receiver with direction finding capability. About the only bad thing is that when another agency says they have a Wulfsberg (now Cobham) it could mean anything, even though the control head looks the same. Its kind of like Chevys of days gone by - you have LOTS of options, like power door locks, P/S etc, and you can't tell from outside till you open the hood! At least I have been able to keep all the ones in my agency identical!
Oh, and by the way - look for a completely frequency agile, P-25 compliant multiband replacement sometime soon - and still FAA accepted!
For the CPS programmers, be aware that there are some unique settings in these embedded portables to make them interface with the Wulfsberg equipment - a standard radio codeplug will not work directly but can be massaged to function as necessary. This is not a problem once you know the few tricks involved, and the wulfsberg software is easier to use than filling in a M/S spreadsheet.
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mike m »

Hey D D how you doing,

I was going to say similar things about the new toys in the future, now if I can get off of Customer problems and back to designing I'd sure be happy.

Been snowing here for almost every weekend since December.

7 inches of snow yesterday morning and 60 F today, more snow just in feb than I've seen in 20 years up here.

The roof of the hockey Rink in Flagstaff collapsed last month so my skates are hung up for the time being, without ice I'm miserable.

How's the WX in upstate ?


Mike
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mustanglane
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mustanglane »

Hi Mike,
Going very well - just got back from Grand Forks and doing some programming in the Predator birds - they still have not quite realized the potential of a flying repeater / relay station that they have in that equipment!
Off to Miami next week to do another programming instruction class. Tomorrow I expect to get two evaluation RT5000s / 0611 models that have SWID 22 - will do some experimentation with moving all CPS channels into one zone. Had issue with DIR/RPT last time, but engineers say they have it fixed. Kind of hoping it works as it will solve some programming peculiar issues.
Wx has been VERY mild - got snow, but not nearly the normal - only rode sleds 2x this whole winter - they actually got more down in Philly and DC!!!
Hope to get back to the factory sometime in 3rd qtr or so whenever the new full P25 model is ready for testing or refinement etc.
Take care - good to hear from you!
D
mike m
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mike m »

The single zone will work fine for you.

Stan W., our Software Engineer, and I came up with the single zone mod a few years ago for the P2000 and I suggested doing it to the Rt5000.

I was working for about day and a half on the DIR/RPT problem until I was pulled off to do some synthesizer redesign on another line.

The fix works fine and things have quieted down a bit, for the time being that is until another big fire comes along.


Finally nice wx here for the last week, low 60's which is short sleeve wx for me.
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mustanglane
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Re: Wolfsberg avionics radio CPS software?

Post by mustanglane »

well, the good news is that the DIR/RPT seemed to work fine - however, I discovered another issue - can't access encryption keys 10-16, either with the 6-KEY button OR by making one of them the default/preset key on any given channel. Got lots of random results when transmitting, but in all cases, the radio defaulted to one of the single digit key numbers 1-9. Sent detailed email to Heath Flor along with copies of the codeplugs that I further modified to assign keys 10-15 to our 6 AIR channels. Very strange, but seems very similar to that old issue we discovered years ago once we went above 10 zones in cps (where we could no longer reliably access zone 1)
Radios are on the shelf awaiting further - I'm guessing they'll be enroute back to you guys next week
Sorry about that - otherwise everything else seemed to work great!
Off to Miami next week to teach a RpWin and CPS programming class - always interesting as I get at least one officer who has not even touched a portable yet let alone a Wulfsberg!!!
Later,
DDG
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