ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

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RFguy
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ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by RFguy »

I have a customer that is looking at the MOTOTRBO as well as Kenwood/ICOM.

From my research, both Kenwood and ICOM use NXDN. An "open proprietary protocol" as per this site:
http://www.nexedge.pl/index.php?option= ... Itemid=119

The Kenwood sales rep has told my customer that Motorola uses a proprietary digital format where Kenwood is open standard. We’re talking a conventional system, so I have pointed out that just the opposite is true, with Motorola using the DMR open standard, where Kenwood's own information link has the word "proprietary" to describe the format.

My question at this time is, are the Kenwood and ICOM digital radio interoperable?
RFguy
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by RFguy »

I just found this ICOM "Information Paper" which indicates that ICOM uses an open standard 6.25kHz FDMA protocol. Specifically ETSI technical standard TS102 490

http://www.info4u.us/FDMA-TDMA-Comparisons.pdf
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escomm
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by escomm »

My understanding is that IDAS and NXDN are not interoperable. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I think it's similar to how TRBO is built off the DMR standard but has its own proprietary functionality, like IPSC, trunking, etc.
Pump3
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by Pump3 »

Icom IDAS and Nexedge radios are interoperable in 6.25 Khz, however the IDAS repeaters will only do 6.25 KHz digital whereas the Nexegde units can work in either 6.25 "Very Narrow" or 12.5 KHz "Narrow" Bandwidth, so IDAS and Nexedge equipment should be fully interoperable in 6.25 KHz conventional mode ....

NXDN Trunking is a whole different ballgame, Icom and Kenwood wen't completely different directions with their trunking offerings and are in no way interoperable...
KitN1MCC
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by KitN1MCC »

i looked at Both i think TRBO/DMR is Robust in what you can do with it

the AAR was looking at nextedge as the RR standard but they back off from what i heard
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Josh
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by Josh »

KitN1MCC wrote:i looked at Both i think TRBO/DMR is Robust in what you can do with it

the AAR was looking at nextedge as the RR standard but they back off from what i heard
???? Who did you hear this from?

The railroads backed out of P25 as the standard, but right now where I work, in the past year in preparation for Narrowband, GM300 and HT1000 radios have been changed out for Kenwood NX700 and iCom F3161D iDas/NXDN/Nexedge capable radios (right now analog only, narrowband).

I've personally invested in said technology, but have found that the local SMR providers (formerly UHF LTR stuff) have begun to transition to TRBO technology.

I suppose the real question is what your customer wants to do. Trbo is good because on a 12.5 khz channel, it allows 2 channel paths via TDMA.

iDas/NXDN/NexEdge is good because it allows for 6.25Khz ultra-narrowband, which the FCC may mandate in the future, and TRBO isn't capable of since it occupies a 12.5khz space. Also, NXND would require two frequency license for any additional frequencies used in the 6.25Khz mode since it's FDMA based, not TDMA.
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escomm
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by escomm »

Josh wrote:iDas/NXDN/NexEdge is good because it allows for 6.25Khz ultra-narrowband, which the FCC may mandate in the future, and TRBO isn't capable of since it occupies a 12.5khz space. Also, NXND would require two frequency license for any additional frequencies used in the 6.25Khz mode since it's FDMA based, not TDMA.
No, TRBO will meet the 6.25 requirements because it's 6.25 equivalent. So no worries there. Though I doubt the FCC will ever mandate 6.25kc. We are about to find out just how little spectrum will be created from narrowbanding. Those with the big licenses will get more spectrum. The little guy will still be sharing spectrum with the guy next door. And don't forget you have to buy 2x the infrastructure for NXDN. 2 repeaters, two duplexers, two antennas, for every one TRBO repeater you have to buy
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Astro Spectra
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by Astro Spectra »

For background:

http://tait-utilities.taitradio.com/__d ... er_eng.pdf

Specifically "NXDN is based on the dPMR standard, but is intentionally non-compliant, in order to bypass intellectual property issues relating to the dPMR standard. The initial driver has been to meet the requirement of 6.25 kHz channel efficiency. Both companies have released products (IDAS from Icom and Nexedge from Kenwood) based on these protocols. Each has both conventional and trunked options. The trunked options are not currently compatible with each other."
RFguy
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by RFguy »

escomm wrote:No, TRBO will meet the 6.25 requirements because it's 6.25 equivalent. So no worries there.
Not in simplex. Only when operating on a repeater.
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escomm
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by escomm »

RFguy wrote:
escomm wrote:No, TRBO will meet the 6.25 requirements because it's 6.25 equivalent. So no worries there.
Not in simplex. Only when operating on a repeater.
Don't argue with me, argue with the FCC. They're the ones that gave it their 6.25e blessing.
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Tom in D.C.
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by Tom in D.C. »

RFguy wrote this about when a TRBO system operates on a 6.25 kHz bandwidth:

"Not in simplex. Only when operating on a repeater."

Good point, and one I don't see mentioned very often. When you run TRBO in simplex mode you're
using a 12.5 kHz channel, not 6.25. The 6.25 only works in repeater mode.
Tom in D.C.
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com501
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by com501 »

In simplex, there is no time slot sync, therefore only one timeslot is usable.

But what, exactly, is the occupied bandwidth of the signal, since it only is running roughly half the time?

I can't really tell when looking at my R8000, and frankly, don't have the time to waste.
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wavetar
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Re: ICOM IDAS and Kenwood NEXEDGE

Post by wavetar »

com501 wrote:In simplex, there is no time slot sync, therefore only one timeslot is usable.
But what, exactly, is the occupied bandwidth of the signal, since it only is running roughly half the time?
Only one slot is usable in simplex, but the entire 12.5KHz bandwidth is used. Think about it...even with a repeater, the field radios can only use a single slot at a time, so there's really no difference with simplex mode. The repeater allowing 2 slots of simultaneous use within the 12.5KHz bandwidth is the only reason it's considered 6.25e. Every transmission with TRBO occupies 12.5KHz, every time.
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