Question about monitoring a cloned Trbo

[Max]

I have a question I hope someone can answer.
I was told that if someone cloned your Trbo and put the C/P in another Trbo they could monitor your radio,including any private calls you make.
Could there be any truth to this ?

Max

[escomm]

To an extent it's true, if the radio ID is also cloned

[Max]

Even if i initiate a private call with another user ?


Max

[wavetar]

Hmmm...a duplicated TRBO ID won't unmute for it's own ID on a regular talkgroup call, that much I've found out through experience. Would it hear a private call sent to it's ID, and answered by the 'other' radio? Maybe...how about a private call initiated by it's ID? I'll have to test this when I find the time...

[Max]

Hi wavetar,long time since we last talked.
That's what i thought,if the radio has the same ID,it will not unmute.
I friend of mine said he was shown that this person who has copyies of our codeplugs,was able to monitor us using 2 Trbo's ,one for each person talking,and he also said he seen use go to a private call and was able to hear us.I'm trying to figure out how he could do this.
We are on a repeater using encryption which this person knows the key for the encryption.


Max

[Max]

Let me clarify something,the other user is part of our group and has the key (encryption) code,he also has a splitter hooked up to a scanner ,through his computer and can see all the radio ID's etc...he can also see when someone go on a private call and claims he can now monitor the private call.
This is what I'm trying to find out if it's possible.

Max

[Bill_G]

My experience with cloned ID's is you will hear the party the other ID is talking to but you won't hear the duplicate ID conversation. The radio will not decode traffic from it's own ID.

[Max]

Well,here is some more information on the question I posted.
First,we are on a UHF Capacity Plus System,using Enhanced "Privacy Type" with both "Key ID" and "Key Value" for encryption.
There are only 12 of use using this system.
If I didn't see it with my own eyes,I still would not have believed what my friend told me he saw.
Now,we are all friend and your typical scanner and radio junkies.
My friend that is able to monitor a private call between 2 Trbo's is also using a program called "DMR Decode" which I'm sure you all know what it is.
But I did see him use 2 Trbo's to monitor a private call between 2 people,one radio for each person on the call.
He will not tell me how he did it,I guess it's not been long since he figured out a way to do this and wants to hang on to the bragging rights and not let the
Jeannie out of the Bottle.
I have asked a couple of Moto-techs about it,and all they can say is"impossible",but I did see it with my own 2 eyes.
I guess I'm making a big deal out of it because all the research I've done on Trbo's and DMR tells me he shouldn't be able to monitor a private call.
So....who can tell me how he's doing it ????

PS....not sure if this matters,but he can change the serial number on the radio using ***.Not sure if that changes anything when using identical radio ID's to unmute the sound.


Max

[escomm]

Real simple. He has both radio IDs programmed in each of his radios, and they are decoding the opposite ID on the private call. He is monitoring the private call with the radio, because his radio thinks it should decode the private call. Of course, he must know the encryption key and have it programmed in, or else the radio can't decode the encrypted signal.

Now if he's using his PC software to decode an encrypted call, without the key, now I'll call shens on that one.

[Max]

Yes,he does the have the encryption info.
Just trying to understand your explanation of how he's using 2 radio ID's that are the same and getting the radio to unmute the call.

Max

[escomm]

Radio 1-ID 1
Radio 2-ID 1

Radio 3-ID 2
Radio 4-ID 2

Radio 4 sends a private call to ID 1. Radios 1 & 2 decode it because well they both have ID 1, and have received a private call addressed to ID 1. Radio 3 doesn't decode it because its ID is 2. Radio 1 replies with to radio 4, and sends that call to ID 2, because well radio 4 is programmed with ID 2. Radios 3 & 4 will now decode this private call, because well they are both programmed with the ID that the private call was addressed to.

Clear now?

[Max]

Much clearer now.
Thank you for taking the time and interest in posting and helping me understand what and how it works.
Also thank you to the others that posted.
If my friend only has 2 UHF Trbo's ,I'm guessing he would have program different radio ID"s as fast as possible if he wanted to eavesdrop on users using private call.
I know he only has 2 4550's and if I see his ID show up on my radio,then at least I know he's not using that radio at that time to eavesdrop.

Thanks Again
Max

[Forts]

It seems like the quick and easy way to put a stop to this would be to re-key the radios. DMRDecode will show you technical details of TRBO transmissions such as colour code, slot, group code and radio ID's but does not decode audio of any sort.

[com501]

Reprogram your radios, add a new enhanced key. Don't tell him what it is. When you go to private call, use that key instead of the standard key you are using for repeater access, or use no key at all for repeater access, he won't be able to tell without looking at his display. Once you go private call, use your new key and talk private with your new code.

You can assign a button to turn encryption on or off. If it was my group and my repeater, I'd throw him off and reprogram the whole thing, besides adding RAS to the repeater itself to keep him off. Not playing nice in that small a group is unacceptable.