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Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

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256QAM
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Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby 256QAM » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:59 am

Looking at going the MotoTRBO route for a utility here covering about 4500 square miles from two mountain tops (RF plots look good) using VHF. We've considered iDAS but the additional work to connect the two sites kinda negates the price advantage, as does the lack of off the shelf software and the additional subscriber hardware required for GPS.

So...

The Vertex DMR repeater appears to be a clone of the XPR8400 right down to the ethernet port on the back. Pricing is a bit less (about $1500 for the Vertex, $1800ish for the Motorola) but the units do not appear to have GPS or IP connectivity.

Does anyone have any insight as to whether the Vertex product is going to carry the same or similar functions as the Motorolas or are they essentially TRBOLite units to increase market share?

Second question:
What seems to be the best telephone interconnection system for MotoTRBO? It looks like TRBONet does off an IP based (SIP) interconnect, however, we'd prefer to have just POTS in with an off the shelf "box" solution.

Last question:
Any particular preference to dispatch software? Seems to be a couple out there for TRBO, all of them in the $2000-4000 range for us (2 IP site connect repeaters, about 75 mobiles and 3-5 dispatch locations).

Thanks!

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escomm
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby escomm » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:35 am

Vertex will not have IPSC although some of the third party applications (I think C-Bridge will work) may be of some use to accomplish the same feat.

256QAM
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby 256QAM » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:38 am

That's what I was afraid of...

With that being said, do the Vertex DMR mobiles operate correctly on a Motorola IPSC repeater, i.e. linking works regardless of whether it's a Vertex to Motorola to Hytera conversation?

Also - the PP slide show I looked at mentioned 2011 Q2 the availability of a digital phone patch - is that something openly available now?

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escomm
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby escomm » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:28 am

I have been told the Vertex and Hytera radios work fine on IPSC with Motorola infrastructure but I can't confirm that firsthand. Others should be able to chime in

RFguy
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby RFguy » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:47 am

I have been told that the Vertex radios will not operate with any of the advanced features sush as IP Site Connect, Capacity Plus, Coverage Plus and Telephone interconnect.

They will be conventional products.

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wavetar
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby wavetar » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:49 am

IPSC isn't defined in the "Tier II" DMR ETSI specs, and is proprietary to Motorola, as I understand it, so the other DMR manufacturers will not work beyond basic conventional simplex & repeater modes. Same with capacity plus and connect plus trunking...there is a spec for trunking in "Tier III", but Motorola does not follow it.

Todd
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Pump3
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby Pump3 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:19 pm

After playing with my Vertex DMR demo kit all afternoon I thought i'd post a little info for people wanting to know

Pro's
Mobiles have Mini-U antenna connecters, was scared they were going to come with BNC or something
Batteries and chargers are interchangable between Vertex and Moto, so you should be able to use your Moto IMPRES batteries and chargers
Mobiles use the same accessory connector and pinouts as the Mototrbo
Repeater seems to be an exact clone of the XPR8400 as far as hardware is concerned, the fan is definitely just as loud
Full MDC and QCII capability
portables ship with the standard motorola wideband "penetrator" antenna

Con's
Portables have their own new & different accessory connector, Mototrbo portable programming cable won't work
Using CPS 1.0 Build 10 and Radio FW 1.07.04 I cannot get the portables to generate DTMF in Analog or Digital
Mobile Mic's seem cheap and light, uses a RG45 plug not the rounded plug like Motorola
No IPSC, trunking, or Interconnect like mentioned above, hoping Motorola will reconsider on the IPSC

Thats all i can think of so far unless someone has some questions

Looks like they were rushed getting this stuff out, half of the items have vertex part number sticker just stuck on top of the Motorola PN's

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mr.syntrx
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby mr.syntrx » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:20 pm

What are the prices like compared to Motorola's gear?

256QAM
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby 256QAM » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:26 pm

Just off the top quotes I've received in the last week:

Motorola XPR4550 45W VHF $521.00
Vertex VXD-7200 45W VHF $470.00

Motorola XPR8400 50W VHF $1820.00
Vertex VXD-R70 50W VHF $1489.95

Unrelated - we're taking a hard look at Icom iDAS...

Pump3
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby Pump3 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:27 pm

Im not sure what the going rate is on the trbo's but a 25 watt mobile costs me about $480 and the portable about $610 and the repeater about $1550 (Dealer price & in Canadian Dollars)

KitN1MCC
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby KitN1MCC » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:05 pm

what kind of Utility. most utility are willing to pay more for an all in one package. especially if they could use it for Scada in the future

256QAM
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby 256QAM » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:19 am

Cable television/telephone/broadband provider. All of our telemetry is DOCSIS based on our plant... Scada usage would probably be limited to status reporting and site security alarms.

All in one quote from one of the local MSS dealers is north of $80k for 50 radios and 1 repeater...

RADIOMAN2002
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby RADIOMAN2002 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:03 am

The only comment I have is to not use the XPR 8400 repeater if you have any possibility of heavy traffic usage (ala GPS or data). Know of multiple repeaters that fried their PA's. Apparently the station is not rated for heavy usage. So now you are looking at 8K for a MTR 3000.
Our agency is now trying out the Icom IDAS, have had 3 repeaters/ base station operating for almost a year with no problems. GPS and other data may be better served by using another means of delivery, as it can result in some heavy transmit cycles for the repeater, especially if you do anything less than 30 min polls.

RFguy
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby RFguy » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:14 am

Pump3 wrote:Im not sure what the going rate is on the trbo's but a 25 watt mobile costs me about $480 and the portable about $610 and the repeater about $1550 (Dealer price & in Canadian Dollars)


VHF or UHF?

What power output is the repeater(25 or 45 Watt)

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alex
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby alex » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:21 am

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:The only comment I have is to not use the XPR 8400 repeater if you have any possibility of heavy traffic usage (ala GPS or data). Know of multiple repeaters that fried their PA's.


Don't you mean the XPR8300? The earlier versions had this issue and it is reported that the new 8400 series have better cooling etc to combat this potential problem from becoming a problem. Also, it is reported if you are using them in full duty cycle setting the fan to always on can't hurt.

Alex
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Pump3
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby Pump3 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:34 am

RFguy wrote:
Pump3 wrote:Im not sure what the going rate is on the trbo's but a 25 watt mobile costs me about $480 and the portable about $610 and the repeater about $1550 (Dealer price & in Canadian Dollars)


VHF or UHF?

What power output is the repeater(25 or 45 Watt)


Its a VHF repeater, puts out 54 watts on the high setting

Pump3
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby Pump3 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:39 pm

FYI I was very pleasantly surprised to find out today that even though the Vertex radios dont have any IMPRES battery display properties in the radio info menu, and the batteries/chargers don't say IMPRES like the Motorolas that the Vertex radios I have did come with IMPRES batteries and chargers, putting my Vertex battery on a Mototrbo portable or display gang charger it displays as a IMPRES battery and displays all the relevant info...

The single unit chargers that come with the Vertex radios are almost identical to the Mototrbo single unit IMPRES charger except there is no RG11 connector on the rear of the charger

JRayfield
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Re: Vertex & IP Site Connect; Telephone Interconnect

Postby JRayfield » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:58 pm

There were problems with early XPR8300 repeaters, with final amp failures. These problems have been corrected in newer 8300's and in the XPR8400. I have numerous 8300 repeaters, that have not exhibited this problem and some have run almost 8 hours a day with almost 100% continous transmit.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:The only comment I have is to not use the XPR 8400 repeater if you have any possibility of heavy traffic usage (ala GPS or data). Know of multiple repeaters that fried their PA's. Apparently the station is not rated for heavy usage. So now you are looking at 8K for a MTR 3000.
Our agency is now trying out the Icom IDAS, have had 3 repeaters/ base station operating for almost a year with no problems. GPS and other data may be better served by using another means of delivery, as it can result in some heavy transmit cycles for the repeater, especially if you do anything less than 30 min polls.
Rayfield Communications
Springfield, MO
www.rayfield.net


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