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EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

This forum is dedicated to discussions pertaining specifically to the Motorola ASTRO line of radios (those that use VSELP/IMBE/AMBE), including using digital modulation, digital programming, FlashPort upgrades, etc. If you have general questions please use the General or Programming forums.

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PhoneMan
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EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby PhoneMan » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:18 am

I dont know if anyone has seen these or tried playing with them at all. We have one at work (UHF) that uses xts battries, speaker mics, even has a motorola antenna on it. Unit has a nice display and is about half the weight of the XTS. Since it has P25 and has capabilities of t2/t2I I "Assume" its built or at the very least licensed by Motorola considering it uses the same batteries and accessories. Anyone have info on these at all?
PM

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alex
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Postby alex » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:20 am

I doubt there's a licensing issue. As far as anyone knows (well, I know) they probably do not have any patents on the connectors, or how you draw power from a battery.

Now, if they included IMPRESS in their radios, that may be an issue. But I don't think there's anything out there that says you can't use the accessory connector, etc.

Lots of people use motorola antenna's on other portables and such - depending on which one your talking about, they probably are just about as well made as the other guys.

Look at it this way: Does Apple chase after every company who makes a product that uses the AMP connector on the bottom of an iPOD? Nah, it's pointless. Same can/could be applied here.

Motorola should be happy they are getting the business from another manufacturer - while they may not sell the radio - they will still make out on accessories, batteries, and antenna's.

-Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

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mr.syntrx
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Postby mr.syntrx » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:25 am

They used to make good money out of the radios, too, selling XTS3000 RF boards.

(EFJ have since developed their own.)

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n9upc
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Postby n9upc » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:34 am

The 5100 started out using Motorola boards along with a lot of the Motorola accys.

Since that time as Mr. Syntrx has said they have come up with there own board.

However, the batteries mics and antennas are all interchangable. even as we speak I have an EFJ battery on my XTS5K whihc is charged by my impress charger. No problems and it works very good.
" ah the fatman made a funny!" - Stewie from the family guy.

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mr.syntrx
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Postby mr.syntrx » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:37 am

I should have added, the EFJ is pretty useful to Motorola, so they get along nicely.

When the question of vendor lock in is raised when Moto bids on a big radio system contract, Motorola says "look, these guys also make radios that will work on this system we wanna sell ya."

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Dale Earnhardt
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Postby Dale Earnhardt » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:47 am

Ohhhh that is nic,e to know they use the same battery only thing I know about them is that they will do Smartzone, and MDC also I think? your basic stuff as an XTS and HECK you don't even have to buy their Keyloader at all just use your existing cable and DX key loader.

Anybody know what the pricing on these are? aren't the basic running around $1500? or was it more

nickburns186
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Postby nickburns186 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:51 am

Cant speak for a basic model but a 51SL Model II with SmartZone and no encryption runs around $1940. A Model III with the same options runs around $2100. Both of those are without a charger. Tack on $120 for that.
And yes, that includes the full MDC feature set.

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Dale Earnhardt
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Postby Dale Earnhardt » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:22 am

Is the smartzone extra ? or is that already a standard feature on the radios already? those aren't to bad of a price......

nickburns186
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Postby nickburns186 » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:59 am

No, its not standard, its extra.

carbineone
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Postby carbineone » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:35 am

It also has a proprietary system key Moto system key does not work.

marsguy
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby marsguy » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:26 pm

Any EFJ Dealers here? Is the programming software and cable available to end users? I have a 5100 series handheld coming. Don't care about encryption. Pls reply via email

db

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alex
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby alex » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:31 pm

List is $495 for software, which includes cabling.

$385 for Public Safety/Gov't, which includes cabling as well.

-Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

Hartley
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby Hartley » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Hi Guys,

A couple comments.. the EFJ 5100 series will, indeed, take XTS batteries and all the XTS/Jedi non-PS audio accessories, and the Motorola keyloader & cable for XTS/Jedi works fine, too. The only battery that WON'T work is the XTS AA-cell pack - it won't fit over the larger EFJ case (but EFJ does make one for it).

The radio "thinks" differently from Motorola in many ways, however. For example, instead of Personalities and Zones, the EFJ fills in everything about the channel only once - simpler if you have each freq/tone combo only once, but tiresome if you want to repeat the freq/tone data many times. The EFJ is also limited to 16-channel zones - no using the menu to have more than 16 per zone (yes, I know that few folks do it, but it is handy sometimes). The EFJ programming software "PC-CONFIG" is VERY different from Motorola..not necessarily better or worse, just different! The available options for buttons and switches are, IMHO, more limited than Motorola. You can't cut & paste between codeplugs, but you CAN take a 5300 mobile and tell the software to change it into a 5100 (and vis-versa), so you can clone the channel/zone/scan info that way between mobile & portable.
Oh - and the programming software does NOT include the "tuner"..:-(

73 DE Hartley

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N4DES
was KS4VT
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What radios do you own?: APX,XTS2500,XTL2500,XTL1500

Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby N4DES » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:29 am

We recently did a side by side comparison of the 5100 vs xts2500 vs xts5000.
The only items we found is that the Motorola radios have much better sensitivity on the coverage edges and better selectivity in areas of know NEXTEL interference. Otherwise it is a suitable replacement when in the overlap areas
of the simulcast system.

Yes the programming is different, but we have been using their 7800's and 9800 mobiles for quite a while and
my techs are familiar with the differences.

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zulu
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What radios do you own?: Alot but, I always want more!

Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby zulu » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:44 pm

I love the fact that the 5100 is field programmable with the right firmware version.
It makes things so much easier.
I wish motorola figured that out and made there radios fp too.
"Say what you mean, Mean what you say."

akardam
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby akardam » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:06 pm

Both the XTS2500 and XTS5000 are FPP capable, with the right flashcode option enabled (either Q53 for FCC subscribers or Q52 for Government subscribers).

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escomm
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby escomm » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:05 pm

zulu wrote:I love the fact that the 5100 is field programmable with the right firmware version.
It makes things so much easier.
I wish motorola figured that out and made there radios fp too.

Your beef is with the FCC, not Motorola. They are the ones who do not want the end user programming their own radio. I agree with them, too. Joe Schmo being able to program any freqs he wants at any time he wants opens the door to too many problems. It's bad enough as it is right now.

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Do-Anything
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby Do-Anything » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:26 pm

escomm wrote:
zulu wrote:I love the fact that the 5100 is field programmable with the right firmware version.
It makes things so much easier.
I wish motorola figured that out and made there radios fp too.

Your beef is with the FCC, not Motorola. They are the ones who do not want the end user programming their own radio. I agree with them, too. Joe Schmo being able to program any freqs he wants at any time he wants opens the door to too many problems. It's bad enough as it is right now.


If that is so, then why is the 5100 field programmable and sold in the USA? Shouldn't EF Johnson also have to comply with the FCC? Or is it that they aren't in bed with the goverment? And don't think for one second that Motorola or EF Johnson believes that no field programmable radio is every going to get into the hands of Joe Schmo. I know plenty of Joe Schmos' that love radio monitoring and they aren't out to commit crimes with a darn radio. It would take me two seconds to buy a copy of any programming software Motorol has offerd. There are far more shop lifters, reckless drivers, and drunks on the road then radio system jammers. In my day, we just found the dump@$$ and took the radio and broke his fingers :lol:
Good Day Gentlemen,
- Darrell

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escomm
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby escomm » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:28 am

Do-Anything wrote:
escomm wrote:
zulu wrote:I love the fact that the 5100 is field programmable with the right firmware version.
It makes things so much easier.
I wish motorola figured that out and made there radios fp too.

Your beef is with the FCC, not Motorola. They are the ones who do not want the end user programming their own radio. I agree with them, too. Joe Schmo being able to program any freqs he wants at any time he wants opens the door to too many problems. It's bad enough as it is right now.


If that is so, then why is the 5100 field programmable and sold in the USA? Shouldn't EF Johnson also have to comply with the FCC? Or is it that they aren't in bed with the goverment? And don't think for one second that Motorola or EF Johnson believes that no field programmable radio is every going to get into the hands of Joe Schmo. I know plenty of Joe Schmos' that love radio monitoring and they aren't out to commit crimes with a darn radio. It would take me two seconds to buy a copy of any programming software Motorol has offerd. There are far more shop lifters, reckless drivers, and drunks on the road then radio system jammers. In my day, we just found the dump@$$ and took the radio and broke his fingers :lol:
Good Day Gentlemen,
- Darrell

EF Johnson does have to comply with the FCC. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the EFJ5100, but after looking at their catalog and spec sheet there is no solid mention of FPP capability on these radios. So maybe they are Federal-user-only models, ala XTS5000 w/Q52. Maybe someone with more EFJ familiarity can comment.

I can assure you that no manufacturer will knowingly violate FCC type acceptance rules, at least no manufacturer that wants to stay in business. FCC NAL's and citations for this kind of violation can run into the thousands of dollars, per radio sold.

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firemedic
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Re: EF Johnson 5100 Digital and XTS?

Postby firemedic » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:24 pm

FPP option on the 5300's and 5100's is available to federal agencies, and a few select state agencies with federal permission only from what I understand (homeland security, wildland firefighter teams, and FEMA related activites). It's an option that can be turned in on in the firmware enabling the menus. Citizen X that purchases the radios from what I understand cannot order the radio with the FPP option hence no mention of it anywhere unless you talk to federal sales. Also from what I understand when it's turned on the radio dosen't meet FCC complaince anymore but remains NTIA compliant until it is removed (Agreement with the FCC and a disclamier is included with any radio ordered by the feds as such). We have a small fleet (40 mobiles and portables) of the units. None with the FPP but I've seen it and played with it when the last tech support specialist was in checking on our radios. It was very straight foward and nice. I've not used the motorola one so I can't really compare. There were some inital problems with the early run portables and mobiles but most problems have been fixed with the newer runs of the radios. Tech support is really good to deal with and knowledgable of the products. I still think my motorola picks up a little better but the EFJ is acceptable. They had lots of problems with their batteries but this has been fixed as well. So if you have an older battery pick up a motorola and pitch the older EFJ battery. The initial runs did use an XTS3000 RF board and was confirmed with my own eyes. The new ones have and EFJ board now that the factory and production is up and running.
Keith Dobbins N8KLD
IT Mainframe Network Engineer
W8TAP Repeater Group
Repeater Technician
Parkersburg, WV


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