Guide to Astro Portable Radios

Radio99 · Post by **Radio99** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:43 am

What happened to the link that described everything anyone would like to know about the Astro series portables?

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:19 pm

I was wondering the same thing about the Newbies guide to astro radios.

DES-AJ · Post by **DES-AJ** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:17 am

Looks like a whole bunch of stuff has been deleted...

Post by **Grog** » Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 am

I had quite a bit saved. I also know the info posted by "someone" was crossposted to a few other places. I'll do a search for some terms and post the links instead of re-posting it all here.

Early morning edit.....

Google cache is your friend. Get it while you can....

If anyone feel the need to remove this link, that's up to them. All I can say is that no one asked/told me to not post any info and/or links. (really trying to stay out of whatever is really going on around here)

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:CD ... cd=1&gl=us

Post by **Grog** » Sat May 05, 2007 2:39 am

Remember kids, save as, web archive, looks just like the former "live" page

Radio99 · Post by **Radio99** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:06 am

Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for. I have now "saved" a copy for future reference.

Post by **alex** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:05 am

The user account for him was deleted, effectivly removing the system references to his posts.

All the information that he had posted is from information that can be easily found upon searching for the stuff on the forum. None of his work or information was original anyway, and frequently hacks were stolen from other users given to him in confidence and labeled as his own anyway...

If you'd like to write a new FAQ or provide something similar, feel free. It's your opportunity to be better, and to get some recognition.

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:53 am

alex wrote:The user account for him was deleted, effectivly removing the system references to his posts.

All the information that he had posted is from information that can be easily found upon searching for the stuff on the forum. None of his work or information was original anyway, and frequently hacks were stolen from other users given to him in confidence and labeled as his own anyway...

If you'd like to write a new FAQ or provide something similar, feel free. It's your opportunity to be better, and to get some recognition.

Wasn't his user account deleted/disabled years ago? Why would you make someone search for info when this post was a sticky? A lot of folks used it, including me. What is this board coming to when if someone gets pissed, they just delete info because they want to. The info was not hurting anyone. I think you jabbed a knife into the community by deleting good info. It really has nothing to do with who wrote it.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:12 am

That info was a good start... but was old and in serious need of updating. If I read Alex right... the user associated with the post was deleted, when that happens it also removes references to that user in the database.

You want to see it back? Stop whining... re-write it and modernize it.

Post by **Grog** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:22 am

alex wrote:
If you'd like to write a new FAQ or provide something similar, feel free.

JAYMZ wrote:That info was a good start...

You want to see it back? Stop whining... re-write it and modernize it.

Like Jaymz said, it was a starting point. That has been a big help to a lot here, I assume that's why it was stickied in the first place.

If someone could rewrite it to be better, they would not be the ones looking for it anyway

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:32 am

You guys crack me up. So let's re-invent the wheel instead of improving on the old one.

Why wasn't a replacement primer put up before the old one was deleted? Admin gets their panties in a wad and then deletes useful information (out-dated or not).

I guess if I wrote another primer, I'd better walk the line or all that hard work would go down the tubes as well. No thanks.

Post by **Grog** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:48 am

(note to self, start saving RESCUE161 useful posts)

sglass · Post by **sglass** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:50 am

for the record-

I know Shaun requested (demanded) that his posts be removed long ago.

He asked me to do that same, but I'd wager he asked me quite a bit nicer than he asked (demanded) Alex.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:03 pm

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

tpg

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:29 pm

A smart man would save the info from the cached page, re-wrote it, improved it... and then submitted it to the knowledge base. But hey... I'm nobody... Who ever listens to me.

RESCUE161 wrote:I guess if I wrote another primer, I'd better walk the line or all that hard work would go down the tubes as well. No thanks.

"Lead, follow, or get out of the way"

"If you are not a part of the solution you are part of the problem"

"Don't go away mad... just go away."

I think I've been philosophical enough for one day. kthxbye

Post by **batdude** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:41 pm

i have a gov't mandated vacation starting tuesday lasting thru saturday.

i'll try to get it done while i'm out.

i'll roll everything into one huge pdf document

doug

fire_master_21 · Post by **fire_master_21** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:51 pm

that would be sweet

Post by **akardam** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:54 pm

RESCUE161 wrote:Why wasn't a replacement primer put up before the old one was deleted? Admin gets their panties in a wad and then deletes useful information (out-dated or not).

Actually, you can pretty much thank Shaun for that. Not only had he made demands to have it removed as was mentioned previously, but his recent shenanegans directly caused that post to be unavailable.

Oh, by the way, there's this wonderful tool called Google Cache. You might want to give it a try:

Google Cache of Newbie Guide to Astro Portable Radios

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:41 pm

JAYMZ wrote:A smart man would save the info from the cached page, re-wrote it, improved it... and then submitted it to the knowledge base. But hey... I'm nobody... Who ever listens to me.

RESCUE161 wrote:I guess if I wrote another primer, I'd better walk the line or all that hard work would go down the tubes as well. No thanks.
"Lead, follow, or get out of the way"

"If you are not a part of the solution you are part of the problem"

"Don't go away mad... just go away."

I think I've been philosophical enough for one day. kthxbye

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. Oh and by the way, I'm not going away.

Post by Pj » Sat May 05, 2007 4:23 pm

RESCUE161 wrote:You guys crack me up. So let's re-invent the wheel instead of improving on the old one.

Why wasn't a replacement primer put up before the old one was deleted? Admin gets their panties in a wad and then deletes useful information (out-dated or not).

I guess if I wrote another primer, I'd better walk the line or all that hard work would go down the tubes as well. No thanks.

If was more of a phpBB thing than one of us going out of our way and deleting the work. It was more of an "awe sh!t" thing which it connected to the spamban function (when we get spammers, its gets rid of the account and a few other things with are associated with IP addresses. One of the recent accounts was from such an IP address, and phpBB did the rest.)

Though, like mentioned before....feel free to do a write up and add it to the Knowledge Base where it will be easier to update independent of the orginal poster.

Post by **alex** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:25 pm

Many of the different Astro FAQ's that were once visible and disappeared yesterday, are now back at the top of the forum. They were jailed for sanitizing.

Complain all you want about that stupid FAQ. You have the Knowledge Base and other avenues to continue to develop this forum at your disposal. The information is on the forums and is accessible using the search feature, which I'm sure all of you love (yes, a little bit of sarcasm).

Plus, I'm honoring the users request to simply remove all of his postings from the board. <done>.

So If you'd like to :o, moan, and cry, I suggest you pick up the phone or click on his IM name and :o loud and hard.

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:10 pm

RESCUE161 wrote:You guys crack me up. So let's re-invent the wheel instead of improving on the old one.

Why wasn't a replacement primer put up before the old one was deleted? Admin gets their panties in a wad and then deletes useful information (out-dated or not).

I guess if I wrote another primer, I'd better walk the line or all that hard work would go down the tubes as well. No thanks.

could not have said it better - echos what I'm thinking.......

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:28 pm

I see the point now... "Oh noes, they deleted an old obsolete thread!! My intarweb civil liberties have been violated and they must pay!!" No mention of course of doing anything to help correct or improve the situation.

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:17 pm

JAYMZ wrote:

I see the point now... "Oh noes, they deleted an old obsolete thread!! My intarweb civil liberties have been violated and they must pay!!" No mention of course of doing anything to help correct or improve the situation.

How cute, a baby photo of Alex.

What you mods might consider obsolete, others may not. The original thread Radio99 needed still does contain lots of useful tid-bits - especially useful for starters trying to make the astro do more or add features. It taught me a few things that I took to the next step......

It's amaizing what information has disappeared from the forums in the past years. Only seems like good/informative posts accidently get deleted, while the rest never budge

Fortunally many have woken up to this behavier and have taken their information elsewhere.

On the other side of the coin: this is alex's board, and he can do what ever he wants to.

Post by **alex** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:57 am

Not for nothing - but there has yet to be anything earth shattering for some time posted here or elsewhere.

There as always "a lot of talk" but not a lot of action.

I find it kind of hard to believe that there is some HUGE gap we are missing out on.

So when you want to back up your statements, feel free to provide some examples of what new and earth shattering stuff is out there that no one knows about. I didn't say you had to say how, but if your gonna :o, you might as well add some creditability to your statements.

-Alex

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:46 am

Hightower wrote:What you mods might consider obsolete, others may not.

Do me a favor. Don't paint with such a wide brush. You assume too much...

Hightower wrote:The original thread Radio99 needed still does contain lots of useful tid-bits - especially useful for starters trying to make the astro do more or add features. It taught me a few things that I took to the next step......

Perhaps it did, but the fact still remains. None of you whiners have stepped up to the plate to contribute something to a new and improved Newbie Guide. It proves the fact that you'll just sit around and cry but yet never do anything pro actively to fix or improve the situation.

Hightower wrote:It's amaizing what information has disappeared from the forums in the past years. Only seems like good/informative posts accidently get deleted, while the rest never budge Fortunally many have woken up to this behavier and have taken their information elsewhere.

What about the cellphone/pda based flashcode decoder that "went private" when you and someone else got their noise out of joint. You know what, Batlabs will survive without you... trust me. It survives without many people that come and go in varying degrees of contributorship.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:13 am

How to put this:

Although the information was obsolete in terms of "today's radios," people still acquire and use "the old" radios that the primer addressed. Yes, most of us in this forum know that information like the back of hand, however the REASON for the primer was to avoid stupid repetitive questions. Regardless of who made it, if the MODS removed a piece of useful public information, THEY should attempt to come up with some sort of replacement.

Imagine you're a new user and came to the board because of a recommended primer on a radio you want to get. It's not here because "it's obsolete" and we aren't going to give you help you can search on your own, so now you have to ask your newbie question over and over again.

Look at it another way, IF PJ got pissed off, and demanded his posts be removed regarding XTL5000's / XTS5ks in the knowledge base... would you create another one, or force someone else to do it? I'm not talking about modifications, and upgrades... we're talking about public knowledge in a user friendly format.

As for alex with "I find it hard to believe that there is some HUGE gap we are missing out on..." actually... you are. It's just not posted because this board doesn't encourge "dropping a radio in a perfect manner for upgrades" like the main page used to.

In reality, I find this board at least 3-4 years behind in that aspect.

As for my creditability....

tpg

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:16 am

The Pager Geek wrote:How to put this:

Although the information was obsolete in terms of "today's radios," people still acquire and use "the old" radios that the primer addressed. Yes, most of us in this forum know that information like the back of hand, however the REASON for the primer was to avoid stupid repetitive questions. Regardless of who made it, if the MODS removed a piece of useful public information, THEY should attempt to come up with some sort of replacement.

Imagine you're a new user and came to the board because of a recommended primer on a radio you want to get. It's not here because "it's obsolete" and we aren't going to give you help you can search on your own, so now you have to ask your newbie question over and over again.

Look at it another way, IF PJ got pissed off, and demanded his posts be removed regarding XTL5000's / XTS5ks in the knowledge base... would you create another one, or force someone else to do it? I'm not talking about modifications, and upgrades... we're talking about public knowledge in a user friendly format.

As for alex with "I find it hard to believe that there is some HUGE gap we are missing out on..." actually... you are. It's just not posted because this board doesn't encourge "dropping a radio in a perfect manner for upgrades" like the main page used to.

In reality, I find this board at least 3-4 years behind in that aspect.

As for my creditability....

tpg

Thank you!

Post by **alex** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:56 am

TPG - I understand your point of view. I'll give Doug a chance to come up with what he wants, and then revisit it again in a week or so.

However, with respect to:

actually... you are. It's just not posted because this board doesn't encourge "dropping a radio in a perfect manner for upgrades" like the main page used to.

You've even asked for information to be taken down here - granted the poster didn't come up with the hack, but the reason that was cited to me was I don't want the rest of the world knowing about it, and then fixing the problem in the next version...

I'll reword what I said before - you all keep eluding to the greatest secret on earth or the greatest hack on the planet for this stuff. Even if this place was all about hacking the planet, I doubt anyone who has taken the time would post here.

If you feel otherwise and would like to share what you want to share and would like to know if we'll put it on the board - ask.

Etiher way - that's just the way it is. Call it current attiude here, paranoia, or whatever you like. I've always been willing to listen and respond to people and offer advice. We will collectivly discuss what anyone wants to share, and come up with the best way of posting it.

-Alex

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:45 pm

I asked to take down a modification, not 100% tested (with history behind it.) That info was also not public info I could call up M with a question with and get an answer, even IF I got a person who knew what they were doing in the product group.

2 Types of info I'm talking about. Public knowledge that anyone could find, and modifications created from people spending time and money on it.

r0f's was a well written DOC containing public info able to be found at M... that needed some updating before it was pulled.

My Doc was a mod after R&D (a few years ago)

As for posting mods and upgrades... can't hurt to start the conversation and see what people are willing to do and post. You just have to be willing to post it.

I have my own beliefs and feelings, and agreements in that regards, but I am only an individual.

tpg

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sun May 06, 2007 2:41 pm

As with anything in life there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Was it necessarily right that the doc was removed? No, but I think it was explained pretty well that it was a victim of "cleanup" from some shenanigans. Unfortunate yes, but all is not lost... as pointed out with the cached pages.

Where the failure happens to be is laid solely on the backs of the people that took it upon themselves to come back with "You are keeping information from us" and "Good info keeps 'disappearing' lately" is going to do very little in getting things restored. The whole thing about catching flies with honey (or whatever the saying is) I think is appropriate. Instead of telling the administration what they are doing wrong, maybe a simple question of why and a question of "Can it be restored" is more appropriate.

So until Doug can come up with something that is a little more recent I'll do what the whiners should have done in the meantime until that happens...

Lately, there have been several Ebay ads, and other questions asked on the board,
that finally motivated me to write an ASTRO "guide" for newbies. When people ask
questions, we should be able to point them somewhere. The main site (batlabs) has
a lot of info, but not nearly enough to guide newbie/lamers through the woods

Let's start off with the basics.

Currently, there are 7 ASTRO portable models on the market.

- ASTRO Digital Saber (Models I, IR, II, IIR, and III)
- XTS3000 (Models I, IR, II, IIR, and III)
- XTS1500 (16ch only, no keypad/display)
- XTS2500 (Models I, IR, II, IIR, and III)
- XTS3500 (Models I, IR, II, IIR, and III)
- XTS5000 (Models I, IR, II, IIR, and III)
- SSE5000 (SP Radio, NYPD Only. Looks like a model I ASTRO Saber, but grey)

The lowest tier ASTRO portable is currently the XTS1500. This is an entry-level
portable, designed for utility companies and public works users. It is 16 channels
only, and does not support encryption. It supposedly is FLASHport upgradeable, but
there is no mention of this on Motorola's website. It is dual band, 700/800 MHz, and
supports ASTRO25 and APCO16 trunking. (3600/9600bps control channels)

The ASTRO Saber has long been a favorite of batlabbers. It is the last "real" radio
that Motorola released, before going to the XTS series radios, which just aren't
built the same. One could easily use the ASTRO Saber to beat down a bad prisoner,
or get revenge on a locker thief (personal story, I won't go there). There are 2
versions of the ASTRO Saber available -- One with a 512K flash memory, and one with
1-meg. The 512K ASTRO Sabers are the most popular, but do not support 9600bps
(ASTRO25) trunking, or firmware higher than Host R05.60.00 / DSP DSPN06.05.02. The
512K ASTRO Sabers support nearly every FLASHport option. Unfortunately, if the user
wishes to use one of the newer UCM Encryption modules with EMC R03.xx firmware, the
radio MUST be upgraded to a 1-meg vocoder board, as EMC R03.xx requires Host firmware
of R07.xx.xx to function. The ASTRO Saber comes in VHF, UHF-low, UHF-high, and 800
MHz flavors. The ASTRO Saber has 2 lines of 14 characters for the display.

The XTS3000. Released in 1996, it was Motorola's second ASTRO Portable to hit the
market, and is the most common ASTRO portable in use, to this day. It comes with a
1-meg vocoder board, and supports encryption. How could you go wrong with this? It's
shorter than the "HUGE" (As ASTROMODAT puts it) ASTRO Saber, but the XTS3000 is a
FATTER radio, even with the Lithium Ion battery. The XTS3000 supports 3600/9600bps
trunking, and any other FLASHport option you wish to have added in. It does not
require a vocoder upgrade. Like the ASTRO Saber model, certain features/hardware
are firmware dependant. The XTS3000 and ASTRO Saber share the same host/dsp firmware
releases. Example: R05.51.00 / DSPN06.04.11 can be found in both ASTRO Sabers, and
XTS3000's. The XTS3000 comes in VHF, UHF-low/UHF-hi, and 800 MHz.

The XTS2500 and XTS5000 were released in early 2002. While the XTS2500 is a nice
portable with 160 modes, it does not support encryption. It hasn't been hacked yet
either, meaning if you buy a "featureless" XTS2500 on ebay, it's going to stay that
way. It's a medium-tier radio, supporting 3600/9600bps trunking and conventional.
It's nice eye candy, but that's about it.

The XTS5000 is Motorola's "top of the line" digital portable. It supports 512 modes,
encryption, and 3600/9600bps trunking/conventional. It hasn't been hacked yet, and the
only portables floating around on Ebay at the moment, all appear to be alpha-series
developmental models. Their serial numbers are 123ABC1234. Keep away from them! They
require special Alpha CPS to program, and are not supported via "R" CPS. The XTS5000
supports 8-meg's of FLASHport memory, and supposedly IP-data features. The "r0f"
opinion of the XTS5000, is that it's a recased XTS3000 with a new display and more
memory. Motorola didn't put a lot of effort in to the XTS5000, and it is overpriced
and currently does not support anything that the XTS3000 or ASTRO Saber is capable
of. Do not be fooled in to purchasing an XTS5000 thinking it's "the bomb", because it's
just not!

The XTS2500, XTS5000, and SSE5000, are all programmed with the RVN4181 software
package.

The XTS3500 is an XTS3000, with a faster CPU, and supposedly it supports higher
levels of encryption -- however this has never been confirmed. It looks identical
to the XTS3000, but it's only available in VHF and UHF models -- No 800 MHz. The
3500 is programmed with RSS. As far as I know, no CPS exists and the radio has
not been hacked.

The SSE5000 is an SP radio developed for the NYPD. It looks like a Model I ASTRO
Saber, in a grey case. It's exact features are unknown at the moment, and Motorola
does not list it on their website. It's most likely got 1-meg of FLASHport memory,
a faster CPU, and a few custom "one touch" buttons. Any information on this radio
would be greatly appreciated!

So now I've covered, in a somewhat brief way, all 7 portables, and what they are.
Now it's time to talk about what makes a radio worthy of an Ebay purchase, or just
flat out hacking. I will only cover the XTS3000 and ASTRO Saber, as they are the
most popular models, and are easily "reconfigured" for the intended use.

First, when looking at an Ebay auction, or making a deal with someone to buy an
ASTRO Portable, you MUST have the below information provided to you. If the seller
is too ignorant or clueless to give you this information, then DO NOT chance your
hard earned money! This information is obtained via 2 methods.

1. Via the F9 menu after reading the radio in RSS (or equiv in CPS)
2. Via SERVICE mode. To enter SERVICE mode, press the ".." button on the side
of the radio 5 times, within the first 10 seconds of powering up the radio. The
information will scroll across the screen. This process may have to be repeated
a few times to get everything.

First, ask the person selling the radio if it's IMBE or VSELP. If they don't know,
then they are just stupid and ignorant. I'd be tempted to just not deal with them
at this point, but sometimes you can "steal" the radio for under $500 from these
people simply because they're too stupid to know what it is they're selling.

VSELP = Vector Sum Excited Linear Prediction
IMBE = Improved Multi-band Excitation

VSELP was Motorola's first attempt at a digital voice codec. It's inferior to IMBE,
and is proprietary. The City of Baltimore uses VSELP on their 800 MHz trunked system.
Other than that, it's almost extinct. IMBE is made by DVSI, and is the APCO-25
codec. 99% of the time, you'll want an IMBE radio.

- What is the Model #? H04UCH9PW7AN is an ASTRO Saber III 800 MHz. You need this
to be sure of what you're getting. I've seen MONGOLIAN MORONS selling 800 MHz
radios as "VHF" on Ebay. These people are either retarded, or are selling something
they know nothing about. i.e. STOLEN.

To decode the model #, visit this page: http://www.batlabs.com/astromob.html#model

Next, you'll need the HOST and DSP firmware revisions installed in the radio. This
is probably the most important part. If the MONGOLIAN RETARD selling the radio
doesn't know if it's an IMBE or VSELP radio, you can obtain that information from
the firmware revisions. Here's the breakdown:

Host Firmware R0x.xx.xx R= Release. If it's anything but "R" here, it's a factory
test radio, and is probably stolen. Don't bother. Here is version information:

Less than HOST R04.xx.xx Less than DSP DSPx06.xx.xx = VSELP KEEP AWAY!!!
Higher than HOST R04.xx.xx Higher than DSP DSPx06.xx.xx = IMBE UNF UNF! YES!

The latest HOST/DSP firmware (as of this writing) is R07.10.xx / DSPN08.02.xx.

Now a few notes about the firmware that you need to know for certain features to
work..

If you desire SmartZone Omnilink Q173/G173 in your radio, you'll need HOST firmware
higher than R05.xx.xx. it is not supported in R04.xx.xx.

If you're using an EMC or UCM Encryption module, with EMC firmware higher than
R03.xx, you'll require at the very least HOST firmware R07.xx.xx or the encryption
module will not work. R07.xx.xx HOST firmware supports older R02.xx EMC firmware,
just not the other way around.

The next thing you'll want to ask the seller is what the FLASHCODE is. This lists
what features are installed in the radio. This even determines whether or not your
radio will transmit/receive in ASTRO mode. This is VERY important. Flashcodes look
like this:

540008-000400-3
591008-4F1E00-9 (Whored out Nick flashcode)

They are 12 digits long, with a checksum at the end. You can decode the flashcode
by punching it in to Lindsay Blanton's flashcode decoder here:

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Flash

To see a list of all available FLASHport options, type FFFFFF-FFFFFF-F in to his
decoder.

Next, if the seller says "Radio has encryption installed", you'll need to ask what
algorithms are installed. Encryption comes in many flavors, and not all algorithms
are compatible with each other. An excellent write-up on encryption was made by
Batdude (Doug) and is available here:

http://www.trunkedradio.net/trunked/stuff/encrypt.html

The encryption algorithms you may see in ASTRO portables are as follows:

DES DES-XL DES-OFB DVP DVP-XL DVI DVI-XL AES-256

If you see FASCINATOR, your phones will be tapped and you better buy some
preperation H, because you'll have a date with Bubba. FASCINATOR is a
classified encryption algorithm used to carry US Government communications,
and is NOT available to the public. If you have it, chances are it'stolen, or
stolen. Could also be stolen. Get the picture?

DES - 56-bit
DVP - 32-bit
DVI - 24-bit
AES-256 - 256-bit

While AES-256 may look appealing, there is a massive back-door in this
algorithm so that big brother can listen in. Do you really think the boys would
release 256-bit encryption to the public to use, without a way of snooping?
DES was developed for the US Government in the late 1970's. It is still to this
day, considered "safe" from eavesdroppers. There are 72-quadrillion possible
keys, and the amount of computing power required to brute-force the prime
number the key is based upon, is not something joe-schmoe has access to. DES
is not "secure" in the sense you would pass classified communications over it,
but it's definitely a hell of a lot tighter than AES-256. There is no known
back-door for DES.

DVP was developed by Motorola for business users. It's weak, and most likely
is back-doored. Security companies and many police agencies in Canada use (or
did use) DVP in the past, due to tight licensing/export policies back in the
day. DES was restricted to the US only, but that's not the case any longer.

DVI was also developed for Motorola for use by business and law enforcement
users, overseas. It is 24-bit, has a back-door, and is weaker than George
Bushes self-esteem. The "I" in DVI, stands for "International".

Anyway enough of my encryption rant. The next thing you'll need to ask your
seller, is how big the vocoder board is. This is required when asking about
an ASTRO Saber. Is it 512K, or 1-meg? Read above for the differences.

Finally, I'll move on to "parts built radios". These radios are EVERYWHERE!
Originally they were sold by a mysterious man named "Nick", aka Watchbuddy,
but he has since disappeared in to the dark Motorola night. His radios were
supposedly built from "parts" that he or somebody else had ordered from M,
and then later constructed fully functional radios. They work fine, look fine,
and even smell fine (heh heh). They just have one fault; NO SERIAL NUMBER.
A parts radio is usually easy to identify. They all have the same host/dsp
firmware revisions, and usually the same flashcode.

2002 Nick Radios

Host Firmware: R05.51.00
DSP Fimrware: DSPN06.04.11
Flashcode: 591008-4F1E00-9

2003 Nick Radios

Host Firmware: R07.08.00
DSP Firmware: DSPN08.02.02
Flashcode: 548008-000480-9

The 591008-4F1E00-9 flashcode has become known as the "Whored Out"
flashcode. This is because it supports nearly every option Motorola offers,
except it has options that are not compatible with each other. Examples
are Software Encryption, and OTACS and OTACR -- which are proprietary to
the LAPD, UHF high band. Finding these in 800 MHz XTS3000's is messed up.

In early 2003, I started bitching on batboard that Nick's radios had old
firmware in them, and did not support new UCM modules, and described a noted
bug when used with speaker mics. I'm not sure if this is why Nick suddenly
started releasing newer host/dsp with his radios, but things changed a few
weeks after. His second flashcode (less whored out) comes with ASTRO25 9600bps
trunking installed. Unfortunately, it isn't supported by R07.08.00 host
firmware, and caused grief for 3600bps trunking users, as they could no longer
monitor without forced affiliation. After people started bitching, he went back
to the 591008-4F1E00-9 whored out flashcode. Then suddenly, Nick disappeared.
Nobody knows what really happened, but there are lots of stories.

If you come across a parts built radio on Ebay or elsewhere, don't be afraid
of it, just pay attention to host/dsp and FLASHport options. Also be aware that
if you send it in to the depot, it may not come back, due to the serial # issue.

I'm almost done, but I think I should continue ranting about KVL's (Key Variable
Loaders).

A few of us whores like running encryption on ASTRO. Doing so requires
encryption modules, AND.. a keyloader. There are a few keyloaders out there. I
will talk about DES, since they are the most common. The same applies to other
models.

T3011DX -- Works fine for all ASTRO portables/mobiles. NEEDS to be "D". C will not
work. A T3011DX is a DES/DES-XL/DES-OFB capable keyloader. It has 16 key memories,
and 16 shadow-key (used for OTAR) memories. It's big and ghetto looking, but it
works just fine. Don't pay more than $600US for one, or else you're getting hosed.

KVL3000/KVL3000 PLUS. -- There have been a few of these on Ebay lately. The
sellers I've seen, have NOT listed what algorithm is installed! Can you believe
that? "DUh I have a KVL3000 for sale". And? When I've emailed them asking what
algorithm is installed, they rudely reply "THEY DO NOT KNOW". That's like putting
a car on Ebay. "Selling: a car". You need a little more info than that! Buyer
beware! These vary in price, but don't pay more than $1500-1600 for them. One just
went for $2100, and the dork selling it didn't even list the algorithm(s)! I hope
the buyer wasn't scammed.

Well it's been a slice writing all of this, I hope it proves entertaining and useful
to ASTRO lovers. Additions, comments, and arguments are all welcome. Remember,
it's just a hobby

- r0f
10/28/03

Hightower/Rescue161... see... that wasn't so difficult, was it?

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:08 pm

Get bent jaymz. All you're doing is trying to make yourself look good in front of Alex. Are you afraid that you'll be "fired" if you don't stand up for what he did? All you've done this whole thread is belittle the ones that questioned why it was removed. Now that tpg has stepped up and basically said the same thing, now you're trying to back-peddle and "do the right thing".

Alex just got his feelings hurt and started deleting posts - nothing more, nothing less.

You can't see the forest not for the trees, but because you have your head so far up Alex's ass.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:17 pm

Get bent yourself...

Obviously you are not as smart as you would like to think. If you notice, it no longer says "Administrator" under my name... hasn't for a little while as well. That was my choice, so I am not here to impress anyone, I could give two turds as to what anyone thinks or says about my statements. So if you think you are hurting my feelings, get a life... I deal with scumbags worse than you everyday.

The fact of the matter remains. You are a lazy, whining POS that has nothing better to do with their time than to b!tch and complain about a supposed internet atrocity. I was merely being nice earlier in hopes that you and Hightower would correct your own persistent rectal-cranial inversion.

If you don't like the truth, FOAD. Because right now you should leave, you are useless, pathetic and are serving no purpose but to drive up your own postcount complaining about a place that has been very helpful to you over the years.

Post by **Grog** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:22 pm

Boy, I can feel the love

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:44 pm

Ha!

Who cares about post counts anyway. I'd be happy if I didn't even have one.

Talking about getting bent out of shape. Looks like you need get back on your meds and if you don't have any, maybe you should see a doctor - really.

You have whined more in this thread than anyone else...hehehe

Post by **alex** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:47 pm

RESCUE161 wrote:Alex just got his feelings hurt and started deleting posts - nothing more, nothing less.

<sarcasm>Yeah, I'm all bent up about it. In fact, I have an appointment with my therapist on Monday to talk about it. I cleared my afternoon schedule.</sarcasm>

Jaymz stepped down a good month or so ago due to other personal commitments that he had. He can do whatever he wants, agree or disagree.

As for posting mods and upgrades... can't hurt to start the conversation and see what people are willing to do and post. You just have to be willing to post it.

Everyone knows how to send a PM on this forum, and if you'd like to be part of that dialog, I don't have a problem discussing it. If you don't want to talk to me, there are a variety of other people who are moderators or admins that you can speak with and they can bring it to my attention.

-Alex

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:58 pm

RESCUE161 wrote:Talking about getting bent out of shape. Looks like you need get back on your meds and if you don't have any, maybe you should see a doctor - really.

Eh, I just need to get better about ignoring arrogant c0cks like you. No meds needed.

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:16 pm

JAYMZ wrote:
RESCUE161 wrote:Talking about getting bent out of shape. Looks like you need get back on your meds and if you don't have any, maybe you should see a doctor - really.
Eh, I just need to get better about ignoring arrogant c0cks like you. No meds needed.

Man you sure have a sharp tongue and have been quick to use it. You can't really ignore someone when you continue to ag them on.

Hope you get some help jaymz - you need it.

emsbuff3240 · Post by **emsbuff3240** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:41 pm

it appears that r0f has requested all his posts deleted, now that is not alex's fault. r0f contributed some great material to this forum, but if alex deleted all r0f's posts the program is not going to leave the good posts and get rid of the pointless ones.

no one is perfect, rescue161, hightower, id like to see you in alex's shoes, see how you would do as admin of this forum.

so calm down a bit, yea the Astro primer was a great article on the radios, it sucks it was deleted, however it is right here in this thread, thanks jaymz, and can easily be reposted and or updated by any member here.

so. stop dissing the people that make this place run.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:13 pm

OK, enough.

JAYMZ has been so kind as to post the primer. We'll let that stand until something changes... hopefully a rewrite from Doug (a lot has changed in ASTRO-land since 10/03).

Scott, Jaymz, please take the bickering to PMs or cease entirely.

At this point, this thread serves no further purpose, until there's word on the rewrite. As such, it will be locked. If you have questions, comments, or suggestions, you are more than welcome to POLITELY PM Alex, myself, or any of the mod/admin members. Also, if you have any suggestions as to the content of the n00b guide rewrite, drop one of us a note.