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Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

This forum is dedicated to discussions pertaining specifically to the Motorola ASTRO line of radios (those that use VSELP/IMBE/AMBE), including using digital modulation, digital programming, FlashPort upgrades, etc. If you have general questions please use the General or Programming forums.

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Gman
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:00 pm
What radios do you own?: Too many

Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby Gman » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:41 pm

Title says it all.
Matt Blaze is a professor at UPENN, and a very smart fella. I've seen him at DEFCON, shmoocon and is super cool. Enjoy..

http://www.crypto.com/blog/p25

Gman
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:00 pm
What radios do you own?: Too many

Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby Gman » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:46 pm

Here is a follow up article...

http://www.crypto.com/p25/

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mancow
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Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby mancow » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:22 am

There is a big thread about it over at radioreference. It sure seems to me like it's a lot of words to boil down to what we all already know. If you don't turn the switch to secure you won't be encrypted. If you don't have the current key you can't talk with the rest and we all have to go to clear mode. Well no ****.

If you leave your car unlocked your stereo will get stolen.

Do I get a pat on the back for that nugget of knowledge?


...doubt it. :lol:

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escomm
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Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby escomm » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:27 am

Yes, but the point is there is no feedback from the radio when transmitting that you're secure. So, as they stated in the paper, they were able to get gather 20-30 minutes a day of extremely sensitive and operation critical information.

My biggest takeaway from the paper was the security compromises that constant rekeying raises.

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mancow
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Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby mancow » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:38 am

Definitely, that is true but my thought is that if it were really that big a concern the Feds would have demanded some sort of unique howling clear transmission preamble sidetone or something but they don't mainly because in the grand scheme of things it's really not that big of an issue and everyone would raise hell. They could enable TX or RX clear alert tones as it is now but I would bet that even with that it comes down to fact that people tend to block out what they hear repetitively and probably don't realize they radio is emitting a tone warning them of their status.

In the end there are chuckle heads that can't operate things properly. No amount of technology will overcome the basic idiot.

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Pj
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What radios do you own?: X9000 thru APX

Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby Pj » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:41 am

Half of the simple solution... strap a channel/talkgroup to secure... Eliminated the button problem altogether.

Another or the keypad radios was infinate key retention with keypad lock...PITA at times but added protection if the radio was lost/stolen etc
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
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resqguy911
Posts: 609
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:35 pm

Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby resqguy911 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:25 pm

escomm wrote:Yes, but the point is there is no feedback from the radio when transmitting that you're secure.


Normally I wouldn't disagree with you, but at least in the display models there are some visible signals.
∅ On = secure operation;
∅ Off = clear operation;
∅ Flashing = receiving an encrypted voice call

Shouldn't we at least be able to trust that those who defend our freedom can pay attention to their tools? I mean, we do trust them to remember when a firearm is on safe/fire right?
"TDMA = digital and same great taste, half the bits"

tvsjr
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 9:46 am

Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby tvsjr » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:16 pm

resqguy911 wrote:Shouldn't we at least be able to trust that those who defend our freedom can pay attention to their tools? I mean, we do trust them to remember when a firearm is on safe/fire right?


Have you seen how most cops shoot? Ever noticed the number of bullet holes in the locker room of any random police department?

resqguy911
Posts: 609
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:35 pm

Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby resqguy911 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:22 am

tvsjr wrote:
resqguy911 wrote:Shouldn't we at least be able to trust that those who defend our freedom can pay attention to their tools? I mean, we do trust them to remember when a firearm is on safe/fire right?


Have you seen how most cops shoot? Ever noticed the number of bullet holes in the locker room of any random police department?


Don't go bringing the real world into this! I almost talked myself into believing in the government's ability to protect us :lol:
"TDMA = digital and same great taste, half the bits"

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kotaguchi
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:04 pm
What radios do you own?: XTS5000

Re: Amazing P25 Encryption paper...

Postby kotaguchi » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:51 am

I remember selling Matt Blaze a XTS5000 UHF M3 and a XTS5000 UCM a while back on Ebay.Glad the radio & module went for some good use...
In Memory of those that serve.

Seal Team Six

Radios I currently own:

2-qty APX7000 UHF R2/700-800MHz M3


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