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Off the Fly Adjustment

Moderator: Queue Moderator

memorex
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Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby memorex » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:35 pm

I have a XTS3000 V2 that I use for Ham Radio..

The Issue is it appears to be a little off frequency when used with a MMDVM Ham Radio Module

My Chosen Frequency if 432.200000 but It Appears to be Transmitting on 432.199200

I did buy some software to Program the Radio which came with the Alignment Software I think but Obviously I don't own a Frequency Counter or Oscilloscope.

Can anyone advise a on the fly way to maybe make the smallest adjustment to bring this closer to the Target Frequency ?

Thanks

Rob..

Jim202
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby Jim202 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:52 am

memorex wrote:I have a XTS3000 V2 that I use for Ham Radio..

The Issue is it appears to be a little off frequency when used with a MMDVM Ham Radio Module

My Chosen Frequency if 432.200000 but It Appears to be Transmitting on 432.199200

I did buy some software to Program the Radio which came with the Alignment Software I think but Obviously I don't own a Frequency Counter or Oscilloscope.

Can anyone advise a on the fly way to maybe make the smallest adjustment to bring this closer to the Target Frequency ?

Thanks, Rob..


With out some sort of calibrated device to measure your actual frequency, you out of luck. Bottom line here is a frequency counter you know is calibrated or use a service monitor.

fineshot1
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby fineshot1 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:46 am

memorex wrote:I have a XTS3000 V2 that I use for Ham Radio..

The Issue is it appears to be a little off frequency when used with a MMDVM Ham Radio Module

My Chosen Frequency if 432.200000 but It Appears to be Transmitting on 432.199200

I did buy some software to Program the Radio which came with the Alignment Software I think but Obviously I don't own a Frequency Counter or Oscilloscope.

Can anyone advise a on the fly way to maybe make the smallest adjustment to bring this closer to the Target Frequency ?

Thanks

Rob..


If you do not own a freq counter or service monitor how do you know it is transmitting on "432.1992" ?
Incidently that is only about 80Hz away from right on frequency and it usually does not get much better.
You would have to use the tuner application along with a counter or service monitor to tweek it back to
right on frequency.
fineshot1
NJ USA

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escomm
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby escomm » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:14 pm

Specs on UHF radios is 1ppm so at 432 MHz the spec would be +-432Hz

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jackhackett
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby jackhackett » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:20 am

fineshot1 wrote:Incidently that is only about 80Hz away from right on frequency and it usually does not get much better..


Your decimal point is off, it's 800Hz.

com501
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What radios do you own?: Over 50 - All Motorola

Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby com501 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:55 pm

I am pretty sure that someone in your local ham club will own or have access to a service monitor. Ask around. Find an Elmer.

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Bill_G
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby Bill_G » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:34 am

jackhackett wrote:
fineshot1 wrote:Incidently that is only about 80Hz away from right on frequency and it usually does not get much better..


Your decimal point is off, it's 800Hz.


And even at 800hz, Memo's radio should still be working. He needs to explain the problem he's having that he thinks is related to being slightly off freq.

fineshot1
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby fineshot1 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:51 am

jackhackett wrote:
fineshot1 wrote:Incidently that is only about 80Hz away from right on frequency and it usually does not get much better..


Your decimal point is off, it's 800Hz.


oops - yes ya got me but even at 800Hz that's
not too bad!
fineshot1
NJ USA

Karl NVW
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby Karl NVW » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:27 am

If the receiver is off-freq by over 600 Hz, the Rx sensitivity / error correctibility for ASTRO25 codewords begins to fall off quickly.
Karl - WA8NVW AFA5VB
SHARES + NCS

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jackhackett
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby jackhackett » Tue May 01, 2018 1:47 am

Karl NVW wrote:If the receiver is off-freq by over 600 Hz, the Rx sensitivity / error correctibility for ASTRO25 codewords begins to fall off quickly.


Yes, 800Hz might not be that noticeable on analog, but on digital things start to get flaky. For example I remember when the old Motorola VRMs would start to get bad connectivity, checking the frequency would always show them off around 1kHz and a quick freq adjustment would get them working again.

The spec on the UHF XTS3000 is 2ppm, so 800Hz is right on the edge. With a good freq meter you should be able to get them within a couple of hertz.

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escomm
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby escomm » Wed May 02, 2018 7:19 am

Bill_G wrote:
jackhackett wrote:
fineshot1 wrote:Incidently that is only about 80Hz away from right on frequency and it usually does not get much better..


Your decimal point is off, it's 800Hz.


And even at 800hz, Memo's radio should still be working. He needs to explain the problem he's having that he thinks is related to being slightly off freq.

disagree, on narrow modulations frequency accuracy is substantially more important than wideband, especially when data is involved

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Bill_G
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby Bill_G » Wed May 02, 2018 10:08 am

escomm wrote:disagree, on narrow modulations frequency accuracy is substantially more important than wideband, especially when data is involved


But only at the margins of performance.

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motorola_otaku
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What radios do you own?: 2 turntables and a microphone

Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby motorola_otaku » Wed May 30, 2018 9:26 am

I would suspect the issue is with your MMDVM. They have known issues with frequency tolerance and, as far as I'm aware, cannot be adjusted. I'm familiar with it being more of an issue with DMR than P25, but neither one would surprise me.

When tuning the reference oscillator in an XTS3000 the recommended spec is +/-250 Hz. In practice you can usually get it it +/-100 Hz but not much better due to temperature fluctuations.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
1. Ability to use fine motor skills
2. Presence of mind

memorex
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby memorex » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:28 pm

Got the Radios Aligned..

I got 2 and they were both around 1200hz off..

fineshot1
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Re: Off the Fly Adjustment

Postby fineshot1 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:03 am

motorola_otaku wrote:When tuning the reference oscillator in an XTS3000 the recommended spec is +/-250 Hz. In practice you can usually get it it +/-100 Hz but not much better due to temperature fluctuations.


Yes - I usually get it down to +/-60 Hz by waiting until the radio is at its optimum operating temperature,
just have to wait until after the radio has been on for about an hour to be sure.
fineshot1
NJ USA


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