APX Questions

[tsunami_australia]

Insurance is currently replacing a couple of deceased MCS bricks (R & K will probably become S/K 7500 dual band looking at ecats) and I have a few questions.

1. Can the voice traffic for BOTH S and K (pri and sec) bands be heard at the same time? Can their volume levels be set independently like a dual harness XTL or Simoco SRM9000 or Tait 9100?

2. Does the display show only the current band or both bands at the same time for channel/tower? The VHF side will normally flick just maritime and the EMS PMR system it will attach to where the most tx actionwill be on UHF but it would be handy to see who is calling on what VHF channel should something come up and I'm on UHF.

3. Does the 07 display any more or less channel information in a dual band 7500 than an 03? Does the 07 have any more control than the 03?

4. Are the APX7500 Q more capable of stretching to 477mhz like the Jedi etc or stuck with a ridiculous 474 dropoff like most XTLs? (more of a question for the aussies I guess here)

5. Looking at the installation manual, I'm guessing the pwr/spkr socket on the back of the head is head power and remote speaker? Are the relay controls output via the VIP socket? What are the can sockets about? I assume one is a link to the radio so what is the other for? I've never had anything other than an 03 style head for the ASTRO25 stuff before.

6. Looking at the installation manual, it appears the mic hanger has to be earthed. PLEASE tell me they didn't go to that stupid setup. I've been enjoying the mics shorting themselves on the hangers for what I have now.

7. Is there a good source available now for J2s? I've been looking for one to build a USB programming lead but no luck as yet.

8. What would an example order to Motorola look like? I've looked through the ecat's and whatnot and given to the dealer I'm supposed to be going through who in turn spoke with Motorola who didn't understand their own numbers and had to have a conference call with me to check what was needed. For some reason my dealer STILL (some 2+ months later) are waiting for the order options from Motorola (that's what they're saying at least). The insurance company is getting rather annoyed at the hold up and I'm fuming. Also for some reason they reckon they are unable to sell to me with encryption enabled (seems odd) or with the trunking options installed without a system key (never had that issue getting the XTL5000).

I've just got accustomed to a lot of the MCS and XTL stuff and it seems a lot of it has changed again.

Thanks.

[Jim202]

Insurance is currently replacing a couple of deceased MCS bricks (R & K will probably become S/K 7500 dual band looking at ecats) and I have a few questions.

1. Can the voice traffic for BOTH S and K (pri and sec) bands be heard at the same time? Can their volume levels be set independently like a dual harness XTL or Simoco SRM9000 or Tait 9100?

2. Does the display show only the current band or both bands at the same time for channel/tower? The VHF side will normally flick just maritime and the EMS PMR system it will attach to where the most tx actionwill be on UHF but it would be handy to see who is calling on what VHF channel should something come up and I'm on UHF.

3. Does the 07 display any more or less channel information in a dual band 7500 than an 03? Does the 07 have any more control than the 03?

4. Are the APX7500 Q more capable of stretching to 477mhz like the Jedi etc or stuck with a ridiculous 474 dropoff like most XTLs? (more of a question for the aussies I guess here)

5. Looking at the installation manual, I'm guessing the pwr/spkr socket on the back of the head is head power and remote speaker? Are the relay controls output via the VIP socket? What are the can sockets about? I assume one is a link to the radio so what is the other for? I've never had anything other than an 03 style head for the ASTRO25 stuff before.

6. Looking at the installation manual, it appears the mic hanger has to be earthed. PLEASE tell me they didn't go to that stupid setup. I've been enjoying the mics shorting themselves on the hangers for what I have now.

7. Is there a good source available now for J2s? I've been looking for one to build a USB programming lead but no luck as yet.

8. What would an example order to Motorola look like? I've looked through the ecat's and whatnot and given to the dealer I'm supposed to be going through who in turn spoke with Motorola who didn't understand their own numbers and had to have a conference call with me to check what was needed. For some reason my dealer STILL (some 2+ months later) are waiting for the order options from Motorola (that's what they're saying at least). The insurance company is getting rather annoyed at the hold up and I'm fuming. Also for some reason they reckon they are unable to sell to me with encryption enabled (seems odd) or with the trunking options installed without a system key (never had that issue getting the XTL5000).

I've just got accustomed to a lot of the MCS and XTL stuff and it seems a lot of it has changed again.

Thanks.

Unless something has drastically changed in the APX family since I last played with them, the multi band radios only have one receiver. View this receiver as just a real high priced scanner. The first channel that is active will lock the receiver onto that channel until the signal goes away. Then it can start scanning again to get the next active channel.

If your looking to be able to monitor multiple bands, my suggestion is to go to Kenwood and get one of their family of radios that allow multiple radios to be connected together. But again you need to ask more questions from those that have this type of package and get it first hand from them just how they function. They are also cheaper than Motorola.

Tait is another place to go asking questions about dual band functionality.

Just remember that to listen to 2 bands at the same time, you need 2 receivers that can function at the same time. Not just a multi band radio.

Jim

[tsunami_australia]

Thankyou Jim. So will they scan both bands at the same time as a "single receiver" though? So say TAC01 VHF then RFSPMR35 on UHF sequentially like a scanner would? That would be quite acceptable as the VHF activity is likely to be rare, more UHF. But that ability to for arguments sake scan marine VHF, local fire, local police and CB in the one set and be able to talk back where license applicable (yes I realise talking back to the police is not on so don't start there anyone, this will have licensed frequencies on both bands) is quite fine by me, making it a scanner with tx functions if that is the way it behaves?

I'd prefer what one gets from say a dual brick XTL5000 (two independants off the one head) but scanner with talkback could be made to work in my advantage. Is there someone could confirm please?

[sjxts3000]

So will they scan both bands at the same time as a "single receiver" though?

Yes

[d119]

It should be though of as ONE RADIO that covers both bands. It'll scan across bands, TX on one band, RX on another within the same channel, but there's nothing "separate" about the bands.

[wavetar]

BTW, you can get a dual drawer APX6500 setup, controlled with a single O7 control head. Here is what is said in ECAT:

Code: Select all

The APX Dual Radio Feature offers the capability to control TWO (2) APX7500, APX6500, or APX6500Li mobile radios from ONE (1) O7 control head.  APX Dual Radio allows for mixing and matching of radios across tiers (i.e. APX7500 with APX6500) and power levels (High Power with Mid Power).

Each radio in an APX Dual Radio system must be ordered independently. 
The mobiles in a dual radio solution can be single or dual band.  Both radios can be on the same or different frequency bands. 
One radio must be ordered with the Primary Radio option (GA01113) and the other with the Secondary Radio option (GA01117).  This will include both the SW and HW required for dual radio operation. 
Although each radio must be ordered as either a Primary or Secondary radio, each radio can be configured to work as a Primary, Secondary, or a Standalone radio. 
The Primary radio must be ordered with an O7 CH.  APX Dual Radio is NOT compatible with any other control head.  
The primary radio includes a short dual radio CAN cable to connect both radios together.  If the stack mount trunnion is ordered, a right-angle version of this cable will ship instead to facilitate stack mounted installations.  If a different length is desired, the standard remote mount control head cables can also be used to connect both radios together.  
The secondary radio must be ordered with no control head (G88) 
Only one speaker can be connected to the control head and it will play audio from the primary radio.  A 30 ft. speaker extension cable is included on the secondary radio to connect the second speaker directly to the secondary radio.  If a longer cable is needed, a 131 ft. version can be purchased from AAD (part # 3005718Z05) 
The stackable mid power trunnion is optional but must be ordered with the primary radio if required.  The stackable trunnion is NOT compatible with High Power models. 
Primay Radio

Description Nomenclature APC  
ENH: DUAL RADIO OPERATION (PRIMARY RADIO) GA01113  
ADD: DUAL RADIO STACKABLE MP TRUNNION GA01115 


Secondary Radio

ENH: DUAL RADIO OPERATION (SECONDARY RADIO) GA01117 

[tsunami_australia]

Ty folks and you are correct wavetar... I spoke with Moto FINALLY yesterday avo about the options and they confirmed what you have said. The dealer I was going through, 3 months and still nothing. Contact a new dealer and I have calls from Moto confirming what I'm wanting near overnight. Hell of a difference and more like what I expected.

It seems dual radio is not set as an option for here just yet but we are trying for the option (apparently it's in review for Australia) and apparently they want a hw ID key for trunking options even if you only have a sw key atm (seems odd). I guess most of the trunking restrictions is to stop fools cloning and jumping on the system without non-affiliation (apparently it's happening a lot here as well) and the only reason I was given for non-aff was "there is not always a service radio on that tower the user wants to listen to so they force it" which I'd have never considered as it is just straight out rude and illegal but there's an ant to ruin every picnic.

[wavetar]

and apparently they want a hw ID key for trunking options even if you only have a sw key atm (seems odd).

Yeah, the APX ordering is a bit of a different beast. Basically, they require that a System ID is defined at time of order. This will end up being the "master" ID, and with a Master ASK, you have complete control over the radio & can even lock out other system ASKs.

Until recently, the ability for an APX to even recognize a legacy software system key was a separate option to order, but here in NA at least, it's now part of the standard options, no separate line item anymore. I think Moto was having such a hard time with people not realizing it was a needed option for older legacy systems where admins weren't using ASKs for that they just said "screw it". Seems a little counter productive in terms of security, since a legacy system key will now work unless you program the radio with a 'write protect' configured ASK.

[tsunami_australia]

That's interesting as it seemed an option still when I was talking with moto. They said ADP in comparison was standard now. Perhaps MotoAU hasn't got the memo yet lol.

[wavetar]

That's interesting as it seemed an option still when I was talking with moto. They said ADP in comparison was standard now. Perhaps MotoAU hasn't got the memo yet lol.

ADP has been standard for quite some time. IV&D and Bluetooth are recently now also standard, with the corresponding increase in the base price, of course. All North America of course, it may be different elsewhere.

[tsunami_australia]

Just got the quote in this morning, just over $6k... WOW.

[MattSR]

What were the exact specs for the $6,000?

[tsunami_australia]

Qty Part No Description
1 M30TSS9PW1 N APX7500 DUAL BAND MID POWER
1 GA00579 ADD: ENABLE DUAL BAND OPERATION
1 GA00345 ADD: UHF R2 MP PRIMARY BAND
1 GA00308 ADD: VHF MP SECONDARY BAND
1 G806 ENH: ASTRO DIGITAL CAI OP APX
1 G51 ENH: SMARTZONE OPERATION APX6500
1 QA01749 ADD: ADVANCED SYSTEM KEY - SOFTWARE KEY
1 G361 ADD: P25 TRUNKING SOFTWARE
1 GA00805 ADD: APX O7 CONTROL HEAD
1 GA00631 ADD: DVRS MSU ACTIVATION
1 G683 ADD: Trunked One Touch Button
1 G170 ENH: Radio Trace and Remote Monitor
1 G996 ENH: Over the Air Programming
1 G67 ADD: Remote Mount
1 G444 ADD: Control head software
1 G89 ADD: No Antenna needed
1 G387 ADD: Conventional voting scan Astro
1 W20 ADD: KEYPAD MIC GCAI
1 B18 ADD: AUXILARY SPKR 7.5 WATT
1 GA00229 ADD: GPS ACTIVATION
1 GA00270 ADD: GPS ANTENNA GLASS MT
1 HKN6184 APX USB GCAI Programming Cable
1 RVN5224 Customer Programming Software (CPS)

subtot $ 5,500.00
GST $ 550.00
Tot $ 6,050.00

[RFguy]

You do have a number of rather expensive options in that price and have included other items that don't aren't really part of the radio such as CPS programming software, program cable and tax in you $6k price.

[tvsjr]

And the O7 head.

[tsunami_australia]

I selected the 07 as I want to look at dual radio in the future else was tending toward the 03. The 07 was still half the price afaik as the 09. Cps and lead couldn't be that much surely?? Then again some other mob who claim they are moto dealers but will sell a lead and won't sell cps etc yesterday quoted me $360 or near for a USB lead for an XTS. So either way that still makes it at least a $5k radio vs 3k for the XTL5000.

Which expensive options are you taking about? Eg without p25 you might as well buy another mcs2000 and I'd have thought p25 was most expensive.

[sjxts3000]

Is the rep who quoted you this trying to sell you an existing in-stock radio or is this a special order? Do you actually "need" all of those features? You can chop that price down quite a bit if you remove the unnecessary features. If you need them in the future, you can always always order a legitimate flash upgrade. What features are you looking for? Also, if you want the dual radio setup, you'll need either nor ow in the future) the following (assuming this is the "primary radio"):

Primary radio GA01113
Secondary radio GA01117 (and G88 for no control head)
If you want a bracket that holds both radios, order option GA01115 on the primary radio
(the above feature ordering info is courtesy of Jeff @ Sandy's)

[escomm]

The price of the radio is at $4,000 before we start talking about actual software options. The radio itself is $2272, the second band adds $400, enabling dual band adds $600 and conventional operation adds $800. Since you selected smartzone instead of conventional that's $1500 instead. So boom you're at almost 5 large before the fun begins and you add flash features, encryption and hardware.

[tsunami_australia]

I think escom has hit the nail on the head. When I was looking through ecats for TN or somewhere I saw the base was $2300 odd (thought it at least included conventional and a few basics for that price).

The H38 was added for future play/testing on likely upcoming repeater equipment (well hopefully likely upcoming) for a self funded voluntary group I'm part of. I wanted P25 trunking for rx only experimentation and later own system experimentation through the same group. Figured it as a "well might as well get it in one hit for future and current needs".

Since my XTL was $3k odd optioned WITH H38+OL etc I expected it wouldn't too much more. Boy was I wrong.

SJ thanks for the part numbers as it is something I want to look into later (not available atm in Australia apparently and apparently only works with a 6500 rather than my XTL).

What do you mean I need "nor w ow"??

[sjxts3000]

Meant to say you'll need either now or in the future. Typo.

[escomm]

Oh the XTL will support dual radio

But it'll be just as expensive. Uses a W3 HHCH with a fancy connector and a Y-Cable to suit and needs the appropriate flash option in the radio which may or may not actually be sold by Motorola

[tsunami_australia]

The catch was I have an XTL5000 already that could have donated the brick to make triband and that was my plan as it already covers the UHF-L segment. However Moto have claimed it will only work with APX6500 and is not available here . I'm wondering if an XTL with an 03 or M5 head would still work or does it really need the W3 for the 25pin comms (SB9600??)?

I'm getting the feeling the dual radio is a great idea which they won't allow . I guess the XTL that is in there or the XTS will have to pickup that slack. The W3 head seems odd though (unless for control) as I thought the 7500 would assume full control and select what it needs as it needs for 3rd band operation and scanning?

[MattSR]

The price of the radio is at $4,000 before we start talking about actual software options. The radio itself is $2272, the second band adds $400, enabling dual band adds $600 and conventional operation adds $800. Since you selected smartzone instead of conventional that's $1500 instead. So boom you're at almost 5 large before the fun begins and you add flash features, encryption and hardware.

Just for giggles, is it possible to order the radio itself, specced with a second band, but without the enable dual band and without the conventional operation?

[wavetar]

The price of the radio is at $4,000 before we start talking about actual software options. The radio itself is $2272, the second band adds $400, enabling dual band adds $600 and conventional operation adds $800. Since you selected smartzone instead of conventional that's $1500 instead. So boom you're at almost 5 large before the fun begins and you add flash features, encryption and hardware.

Just for giggles, is it possible to order the radio itself, specced with a second band, but without the enable dual band and without the conventional operation?

Yes, you can order it with the desired second band, and not order the 'enable dual band' and save $660. The secondary band option does add $440, even though not enabled.

You must choose some sort of operation though, and conventional is the least expensive. More expensive modes, Smartnet, etc, include conventional operation.

All my prices above are Canadian MSRP.

[escomm]

. I'm wondering if an XTL with an 03 or M5 head would still work or does it really need the W3 for the 25pin comms (SB9600??)?

Nope, has to be the W3 and it has to use the special Y Cable. I think you can convert the standard W3 over, I don't think it's got special firmware, but it absolutely will not work with the O series heads

[tsunami_australia]

Awww crap .... so I'd have to seek a W3 XTL from the stateside when I do it. I've never seen a W3 XTL here.