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New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:44 am
by d119
I see reference in the release notes for R16.20.00 firmware that there is an APX900, VS-949 and 900MHz consolette apparently coming out/supported.
New/Replacement Products
Abstract: APX900 Portable Radio
System Platforms Affected: All
Special Configurations: N/A
Description: This firmware version supports the initial release of this radio, which includes the following feature set and capabilities:
1. Models supported: 2 & 3
2. Bands supported: 700/800, UHF R1, VHF
3. Wi-Fi
a. Protocols: 802.11 b/g/n, 2.4GHz Only
b. Security types: None, WEP, WPA/WPA2 Mixed Mode Personal Only (No Enterprise Security)
c. Pre-provisioned Access Point Data
d. Radio Management support for Codeplug and Flashport updates (with user-delay request capability)
4. Bluetooth 2.X and 4.X (Certified)
i. All existing legacy APX profiles
ii. Bluetooth 4.X Low Energy profiles
1. Generic Access Profile
2. Generic Attribute Profile
5. GPS/GNSS Specification – GPS & GLONASS
6. UL Division 1 & 2 (Certified)

Abstract: VS-949 Portable Radio
System Platforms Affected: All
Special Configurations: N/A
Description: This firmware version supports the initial release of this
radio.

Abstract: 900 MHz Consolette
System Platforms Affected: All
Special Configurations: N/A
Description: Provides Consolette feature set to 900 MHz customers

Abstract: AES Software Crypto
System Platforms Affected: All
Special Configurations: APX900 (only)
Description: This feature enables radios to have the ability to do AES
encrypted voice and data communications without the need for a hardware
encryption module. The feature also supports keyloading from the KVL4000
(Model T7537B) via USB port.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:16 am
by sjxts3000
They dropped a zero off the model number... maybe they'll drop a zero off the price, too? :lol:

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:24 am
by W3AXL
I wouldn't be too terribly surprised to see a budget APX from Moto. They could use a lower-tier P25 radio if they want to stay competitive with the other manufacturers. That could explain the 900 instead of 9000; lower than the 1000 as opposed to even fancier than the 8k.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:26 am
by W3AXL
Some searching yields an interesting document:

https://fccid.io/pdf.php?id=3415404

My suspicions may not be too far off.

EDIT: Found the FCC info page, including user manuals and additional PDFs.

https://fccid.io/AZ489FT7097

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:31 am
by sjxts3000
W3AXL wrote:Some searching yields an interesting document:

https://fccid.io/pdf.php?id=3415404

My suspicions may not be too far off.

Yep, lower price point. Same housing/chassis as the XPR7550. Note it doesn't support UHF R2, just R1.

This should be a multiband alternative to the "in-orbit" price of the 8000. This is what happens when they want to stop making the 7000 chassis/housing, but still want a lower price point multi-band portable...they shove it into the top-selling housing of the XPR line.

I guess it all makes sense, but damn if the XPR7550 (and now APX900) housings aren't the most obnoxiously thickest radios in today's modern lineup. I'd rather have an 8000 with a slim APX battery (but surely don't want to pay that much for it!)

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:00 pm
by chartofmaryland
Afternoon All,

Burner was reading the Radio Release Notes file for 16.20 which calls out a fix for radios used on IV&D trunked systems where when the radio was flashed with 14.00 thru 15.12 Host/DSP, the radio may exhibit a condition where voice calls could be missed due to an issue with data transaction timer expiration and too few data resource channels in the system before voice traffic would be heard again and or may require the user to PTT to clear the condition and rejoin a voice call

Know alot of users who quickly upgraded APX radios to something above 14.01 to take advantage of the voice encryption key retention.

Hope those running v14.00 - v15.12 can upgrade soon to avoid finding out this little gem before it shows itself

CoM

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:02 pm
by tvsjr
Software AES is likely due to the DHS ruling that, if a radio implements a proprietary encryption algorithm for free, it must also implement the P25 standard AES to be eligible for grant funding. This is a way of dealing with people getting locked into Moto gear through the use of ADP.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:55 pm
by d119
So what about this "VS-949" thing?

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:43 am
by alex

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:09 am
by d119
Thats for the APX 900.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:08 pm
by mab
BTW, before you update to 16.20, this just appeared under its listing on MOL:

NOTE: DO NOT UPGRADE TO R16.20.00 IF USING FIREGROUND OR ANY OTHER RF MODEM APPLICATION
MTN WITH FULL DETAILS TO BE POSTED SHORTLY

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:56 pm
by tuckerm
So is the APX900 multiband or is that just conjecture from members here?

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:00 pm
by sjxts3000
tuckerm wrote:So is the APX900 multiband or is that just conjecture from members here?

Hmmm...you have a point there. I went back and read and don't see anywhere it says "multiband". It just says "supported bands" (7/8, U2, and V)

Is it possible to put a "tri-band" RF deck in an XPR7550 housing?

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:22 am
by W3AXL
The FCC ID for the 8000 has all the frequency bands included. In comparison, the ID for this new 900 has separate IDs for VHF, UHF, and 800. My guess would be that it's "dual band" in the sense that LTE/Wifi counts as a band.

Interestingly though it looks like they've extended the UHF1 range to be 380-480 MHz. Possibly to include support for some orgs still on the upper bands (a la Chicago Fire)?

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:49 am
by N4KVE
W3AXL wrote:
Interestingly though it looks like they've extended the UHF1 range to be 380-480 MHz. Possibly to include support for some orgs still on the upper bands (a la Chicago Fire)?
Should be no big deal, as the 7550 UHF covers 403-520 in one radio. GARY

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:53 am
by d119
It specifically mentions being available in VHF, UHF1 and 7/800MHz. It will apparently not be wideband like the 7550.

Read my original post above:

2. Bands supported: 700/800, UHF R1, VHF


It's not going to be dual band. Motorola isn't going to compete with itself on the APX 8000. You want dual band, order an 8000 with only what you want turned on. Remember, the 8000 is not multiband by default. Hardware wise, yes. Software wise, no.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:56 pm
by com501
The APX900 looks to be selling to end users at about the $1k price point. MR customer orders - don't know the exact pricing yet. I already put in for a demo unit to play with.

I don't think that Motorola sees much activity in the R2 band, hence no product.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:02 am
by resqguy911
d119 wrote: You want dual band, order an 8000 with only what you want turned on. Remember, the 8000 is not multiband by default. Hardware wise, yes. Software wise, no.


It's actually the other way around. The 8000 is multiband by default, you have to specify which bands you want disabled for a credit on the order sheet.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:32 am
by d119
resqguy911 wrote:
d119 wrote: You want dual band, order an 8000 with only what you want turned on. Remember, the 8000 is not multiband by default. Hardware wise, yes. Software wise, no.


It's actually the other way around. The 8000 is multiband by default, you have to specify which bands you want disabled for a credit on the order sheet.


I stand corrected - thank you for the correct information! Essentially it's the same thing though.

APX900 will be great for smaller users like public works, school districts, animal control, fire department admin-types, maybe detectives and those who need a little smaller form factor?

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:01 am
by firecomm
d119 wrote:APX900 will be great for smaller users like public works, school districts, animal control, fire department admin-types, maybe detectives and those who need a little smaller form factor?


For sure. I have fire prevention officers who don't want an apx on their belts so it'd be perfect for them. Either that or an apx1000 I suppose.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:26 am
by 3-SAM-12
d119 wrote:So what about this "VS-949" thing?


Just taking a shot in the dark, by the VS I am thinking Vertex Standard.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:50 pm
by d119
The correct model number is "VX-P949", and here's a photo of a prototype/evaluation unit:

Image

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:07 pm
by sjxts3000
That's a cool looking radio! I recall now seeing this on LinkedIn.
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 1997322240

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:19 am
by motorola_otaku
Boy they sure love that XPR7550 form factor, don't they? :lol:

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:38 am
by sjxts3000
motorola_otaku wrote:Boy they sure love that XPR7550 form factor, don't they? :lol:

I absolutely hate the XPR7550 ergonomics. PTT is too sensitive and in order to get a decent battery life, you have to use a battery which makes the radio obnoxiously thick. Perhaps impres 2 will help with longer battery life there? And proof Motorola are dummies...the XPR7550 doesn't have an SMA connector on the antenna... but it looks like the APX900 does, so we know it fits, so why omit it from the XPR? Wonder if the VX-P949 has it.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:17 pm
by com501
d119 wrote:The correct model number is "VX-P949", and here's a photo of a prototype/evaluation unit:

Image


Not in the price book yet, the 929 is cancelled as of 6/30. ($2100!)

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:28 pm
by d119
com501 wrote:Not in the price book yet, the 929 is cancelled as of 6/30. ($2100!)


...thats because it hasn't been officially released yet. :roll:


Boy they are going all out with that sickening Vertex orange on these things, aren't they? Yuck!

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:36 pm
by W3AXL
sjxts3000 wrote:the XPR7550 doesn't have an SMA connector on the antenna... but it looks like the APX900 does, so we know it fits, so why omit it from the XPR?


I'd imagine it was the same line of reasoning behind forgoing the Mini UHF in favor of a QMA connector on the 8500...

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:30 pm
by MattSR
Keyloading via USB - now that's been in the TIA.102 standards for a few years now, but it hasn't appeared until now...

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:33 pm
by com501
d119 wrote:
com501 wrote:Not in the price book yet, the 929 is cancelled as of 6/30. ($2100!)


...thats because it hasn't been officially released yet. :roll:


Boy they are going all out with that sickening Vertex orange on these things, aren't they? Yuck!


Orange is the new black.

You would think they would have the new radio out before they cancelled the earlier product....

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:02 pm
by com501
W3AXL wrote:
sjxts3000 wrote:the XPR7550 doesn't have an SMA connector on the antenna... but it looks like the APX900 does, so we know it fits, so why omit it from the XPR?


I'd imagine it was the same line of reasoning behind forgoing the Mini UHF in favor of a QMA connector on the 8500...


Different manufacturer in China. Mini-U's are 'old tech'.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:56 pm
by d119
com501 wrote:Different manufacturer in China. Mini-U's are 'old tech'.


How would a manufacturer have anything to do with what connector goes on the radio? That's an engineering thing!

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:52 pm
by com501
Who says that the boards are made exclusively for Motorola and not some generic radio company? You can spec your finish and firmware but the base O/S is pretty much fixed. Look at how all these radios look very similar in appearance. I would guess that most come from the same plant.

Why else would we have new boards in the BN versions of APX but no manuals available, even to the techs yet? My guess is someone is transposing to English and Motorlese from the base language.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:13 am
by motorola_otaku
Penang may build the boards but Plantation still designs them. Someone in the engineering department made a conscious decision to switch from Mini-U to QMA. As someone who has to field-install the stupid things now I'm not impressed.

I mean, for all we know it could be a penny-pinching thing since the GPS and Wifi/BT connectors are also QMA. At their frequency ranges and power levels it at least kind of makes sense.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:41 pm
by tvsjr
I mean, a new connector IS nice... Mini-UHF has been a shitty connector since, well, ever. But, how about a BNC? Or a TNC, like they use on many of the Euro radios? No, let's go to a QMA, a connector most of us hadn't heard of until Moto started using it.

Re: New APX stuff coming! And SOFTWARE AES for APX900?

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:08 pm
by motorola_otaku
TNC would make the most sense, since that's what the Panorama triplexers use. But nooo, can't have that...