I'm dipping my bucket again into the well of knowledge...
Several of my friends and I go ATV'ing a lot and we all have CP200's (vhf). The areas we frequent are somewhat mountainous and sometimes more remote than expected. I'm wanting to find an adapter to replace the OEM antenna and connect the handheld to a whip antenna (for lack of better term) via coax. After returning home, remove the adapter and re-install the OEM antenna. The only adapter(s) I've seen are the threaded to BNC and threaded to SMA. I'd welcome any suggestions and links to what kind of adapter to use that will be compatible with the coax between radio and antenna. Recap..I'm needing an antenna adapter, coax, and antenna.
External Whip Antenna for a CP200
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Tom in D.C.
- Posts: 3859
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Progreso soup can with CRT
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Adapters are available in virtually any type you can imagine. Contact this company
as they know what they're doing and take small orders and credit cards.
http://www.therfc.com/
To provide you with useful information I would have to know how/where you now mount
the antennas. There doesn't seem to be enough data in your post to help you out. What
you do NOT want to do is make a setup where you are constantly connecting and disconnecting
an SMA connector because SMAs have low MTBF and should be left installed as much as
possible.
as they know what they're doing and take small orders and credit cards.
http://www.therfc.com/
To provide you with useful information I would have to know how/where you now mount
the antennas. There doesn't seem to be enough data in your post to help you out. What
you do NOT want to do is make a setup where you are constantly connecting and disconnecting
an SMA connector because SMAs have low MTBF and should be left installed as much as
possible.
Tom in D.C.
In 1920, the U.S. Post Office Department ruled
that children may not be sent by parcel post.
In 1920, the U.S. Post Office Department ruled
that children may not be sent by parcel post.
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1crazymax
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
- What radios do you own?: CP200's, CM300, Baofeng UV-5RC
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
I'm not mounting the antenna at this time. We currently use our CP200's with the OEM antenna screwed to the radio, and have had several transmit/receive issues. I guess if I could find a male to male adapter that would screw into the antenna port or a CP200 and have a male mini UHF connector on it that would work. The only coax connectors I've ever messed with are TV RG6-RG8-RG52, and your standard UHF CB coax end. I never knew there was sure a thing as a mini UHF connector until about a week ago. I know a lot of antenna bases already have the coax permantly connected to them. I already have a new Moto HAF4017A coax assemble (robbed kit with no antenna) that has a mini UHF on it. If I could find the adapter I could get an antenna and use it.
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1crazymax
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
- What radios do you own?: CP200's, CM300, Baofeng UV-5RC
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Oh yeah, as far as a mount is concerned, I'm planning on making an " L " bracket and U-bolting it to my back ATV rack. Mounting the antenna base to it and zip tying the coax to come up by the seat. This way I can remove the OEM antenna, install the male to male adapter, screw the coax on, and go. When we get done riding, just remove the adapter and re-install the OEM antenna. To me it sounds simple, but then again, it's not crowded in my head. Thanks again.
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1crazymax
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
- What radios do you own?: CP200's, CM300, Baofeng UV-5RC
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Sorry to be so much trouble, but I was wondering what size the antenna threads are on a CP200 or does it have a connector number? I know the antennas just screw into the radio, but the CP200 to BNC adapters screw down into a socket inside the radio. That being the case, what is the socket it screws into for, since there's not one on the end of the antenna? The reason I'm asking is I've found some adapters with Male Mini UHF threads on one side but I don't know what to look for or the radio side.
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Something you may want to consider:
We use VHF when we ride. Currently, we all have side by sides with permanently mounted radios, and it works well.
Up until 2010, we all rode ATVs and used hand held radios. We had similar issues you did, remote/rugged locations and it didn't take much to get out of site from each other, and not much more to get out of radio range. We considered the options, and like you, considered mounting antennas on the ATV's. We decided against that due to the vibration, but it probably would have worked. Instead, what we found that worked was to use higher gain portable antennas. We were using the VHF Amateur radio band and the radios had SMA connectors on them. We used these long 19 inch whips that were very flexible. It worked better, but one of the issues is body shielding. In other words, we got in the way of the radios. Since the radios couldn't ride the ATV's on their own, we had to come up with a solution. The solution that we came up with was to put the radios in our backpacks, up as high as we could, and have the antenna sticking up away from our bodies. That helped considerably. without the issue of having to connect and disconnect the radio all the time. Since we often got off the ATV's to explore areas we were, leaving the radio on the ATV wasn't what we felt was a good idea. We'd find old mines, cabins, other things where if we got in trouble, we'd need to call for help.
So that worked really well, and it became much more important back in 2008, June 13th to be exact. We'd ridden up a very familiar trail near Mt. Shasta in far Northern California. Great trail and a nice ride. We'd been up to Grizzly Peak where there was an old abandon fire lookout. We'd spent some time up there and were heading back to camp. We stopped off at an old snow survey cabin we knew about to eat our lunch. After that, we all started back down the trail. I was in the back because I'd stopped to look at something. I was trying to catch back up with the group and was riding faster than normal down a familiar stretch of trail I'd been on many times. Well, as you can figure, things went wrong. A large flat rock that was in the trail kicked up when my front wheel ran over it. It smashed the foot peg up to about a 45 degree angle. The rock, now on end, hit the back wheel and taco'd it bad. That of course rag dolled me over the handle bars while doing about 30 mph. Luckily I didn't land in the manzanita bushes that lined the trail. Instead I landed on a big rock. When I landed, I landed with my left knee taking the brunt of the force. That force traveled up my femur and broke the top of my hip socket off and cracked my pelvis in a number of places. By the time I stopped tumbling, the wind had been knocked out of me and I was lying on my back in the center of the trail. Oh, yeah, don't forget about the now un-piloted ATV. It flipped over and twisted, landing back on its wheels. It was still running when it rolled back and hit me. The engine died at that point, and the ATV stopped rolling.
So there I was, busted hip and cracked pelvis, laying in the middle of the trail with the rest of the group way ahead. After I was able to breath again, I did the normal "self test" mode. I realized I was hurt and wasn't going anywhere. Luckily the radio was in the backpack that I was wearing, and not on the now smashed up ATV. I tried calling, but the helmet headset cord had been pulled apart. I was able to move enough to get the backpack out from under me. Oh yeah, OUCH! I was able to disconnect the headset from the radio and was then able to call for help.
With the old set up, short antenna etc, I likely wouldn't have been able to reach them. They would have eventually found me, but it probably would have taken an hour before they realized I wasn't behind them and backtrack to find me. If the radio had been mounted to the ATV, I could not have reached it, even if it was still working. If the hand held had been attached to an antenna mounted on the ATV, It likely would have yanked the cable apart and I would have been stuck.
So, lessons learned:
1. Keep the radio physically on you, just in case you and your ATV become separated. Your radio on an ATV that ends up down a cliff won't do you much good.
2. Higher gain antennas can save you.
3. Radios while riding ATV's are a necessity.
4. If you decide to get thrown off your ATV, aim for the bushes, not the rocks.
5. No matter how cool you think you are, wear your helmet, please.
6. Having a bunch of firemen cut all your cloths off of you in front of your friends is really bad for your ego.
7. Old clapped out ambulances with shot suspensions on mountain roads should be avoided when one has a broken hip socket and cracked pelvis. There isn't enough morphine carried on them to help you.
8. Mercy Mt. Shasta Hospital has some really nice nurses.
9. Mercy Mt. Shasta also has really good tasting water. Couple that with a catheter and you can drink all you want and not have to get out of bed.
10. Dilaudid is a wonderful pain killer. Ask for it by name.
11. You'll likely survive, but limp for the rest of your life, but you'll have really good stories to tell around the camp fire while you drink cold beer.
12. Steel ATV wheels are easy to beat back into shape with a big hammer. 4 years later the sucker still holds air.
We use VHF when we ride. Currently, we all have side by sides with permanently mounted radios, and it works well.
Up until 2010, we all rode ATVs and used hand held radios. We had similar issues you did, remote/rugged locations and it didn't take much to get out of site from each other, and not much more to get out of radio range. We considered the options, and like you, considered mounting antennas on the ATV's. We decided against that due to the vibration, but it probably would have worked. Instead, what we found that worked was to use higher gain portable antennas. We were using the VHF Amateur radio band and the radios had SMA connectors on them. We used these long 19 inch whips that were very flexible. It worked better, but one of the issues is body shielding. In other words, we got in the way of the radios. Since the radios couldn't ride the ATV's on their own, we had to come up with a solution. The solution that we came up with was to put the radios in our backpacks, up as high as we could, and have the antenna sticking up away from our bodies. That helped considerably. without the issue of having to connect and disconnect the radio all the time. Since we often got off the ATV's to explore areas we were, leaving the radio on the ATV wasn't what we felt was a good idea. We'd find old mines, cabins, other things where if we got in trouble, we'd need to call for help.
So that worked really well, and it became much more important back in 2008, June 13th to be exact. We'd ridden up a very familiar trail near Mt. Shasta in far Northern California. Great trail and a nice ride. We'd been up to Grizzly Peak where there was an old abandon fire lookout. We'd spent some time up there and were heading back to camp. We stopped off at an old snow survey cabin we knew about to eat our lunch. After that, we all started back down the trail. I was in the back because I'd stopped to look at something. I was trying to catch back up with the group and was riding faster than normal down a familiar stretch of trail I'd been on many times. Well, as you can figure, things went wrong. A large flat rock that was in the trail kicked up when my front wheel ran over it. It smashed the foot peg up to about a 45 degree angle. The rock, now on end, hit the back wheel and taco'd it bad. That of course rag dolled me over the handle bars while doing about 30 mph. Luckily I didn't land in the manzanita bushes that lined the trail. Instead I landed on a big rock. When I landed, I landed with my left knee taking the brunt of the force. That force traveled up my femur and broke the top of my hip socket off and cracked my pelvis in a number of places. By the time I stopped tumbling, the wind had been knocked out of me and I was lying on my back in the center of the trail. Oh, yeah, don't forget about the now un-piloted ATV. It flipped over and twisted, landing back on its wheels. It was still running when it rolled back and hit me. The engine died at that point, and the ATV stopped rolling.
So there I was, busted hip and cracked pelvis, laying in the middle of the trail with the rest of the group way ahead. After I was able to breath again, I did the normal "self test" mode. I realized I was hurt and wasn't going anywhere. Luckily the radio was in the backpack that I was wearing, and not on the now smashed up ATV. I tried calling, but the helmet headset cord had been pulled apart. I was able to move enough to get the backpack out from under me. Oh yeah, OUCH! I was able to disconnect the headset from the radio and was then able to call for help.
With the old set up, short antenna etc, I likely wouldn't have been able to reach them. They would have eventually found me, but it probably would have taken an hour before they realized I wasn't behind them and backtrack to find me. If the radio had been mounted to the ATV, I could not have reached it, even if it was still working. If the hand held had been attached to an antenna mounted on the ATV, It likely would have yanked the cable apart and I would have been stuck.
So, lessons learned:
1. Keep the radio physically on you, just in case you and your ATV become separated. Your radio on an ATV that ends up down a cliff won't do you much good.
2. Higher gain antennas can save you.
3. Radios while riding ATV's are a necessity.
4. If you decide to get thrown off your ATV, aim for the bushes, not the rocks.
5. No matter how cool you think you are, wear your helmet, please.
6. Having a bunch of firemen cut all your cloths off of you in front of your friends is really bad for your ego.
7. Old clapped out ambulances with shot suspensions on mountain roads should be avoided when one has a broken hip socket and cracked pelvis. There isn't enough morphine carried on them to help you.
8. Mercy Mt. Shasta Hospital has some really nice nurses.
9. Mercy Mt. Shasta also has really good tasting water. Couple that with a catheter and you can drink all you want and not have to get out of bed.
10. Dilaudid is a wonderful pain killer. Ask for it by name.
11. You'll likely survive, but limp for the rest of your life, but you'll have really good stories to tell around the camp fire while you drink cold beer.
12. Steel ATV wheels are easy to beat back into shape with a big hammer. 4 years later the sucker still holds air.
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."
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1crazymax
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
- What radios do you own?: CP200's, CM300, Baofeng UV-5RC
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Yes I can relate to the situations you're talking about. I'm sorry to hear about the accident and I hope you were able to fully recover. I'd thought about longer radio mounted flex antennas but had never read how much more, if any, effective they are. That gives me another option to think about. What I have decided to try and do is get a high gain external flex antenna with a 90 degree NMO mirror mount and RG58 coax with a BNC end, all as a factory assembly. Get the CP200 adapter (antenna to BNC). Mount the antenna to the rear rack on my ATV, zip tie the coax to come up in the area somewhere by the seat. I have always carried my portable on my body when riding using the Moto PMNN4013A speaker/mic,(looking for a good VOX option) but like you mentioned it creates a lot of body interference. I could get the external antenna set up as mentioned above AND a long whip antenna to carry on me just for a situation like you ran into. I figure it wouldn't take but just a minute to remove the coax and re-install the whip antenna to explore areas of interest. It also gives me something to test out. If I find the external antenna is really not much more beneficial than the whip, I'll take your suggestions and do it your way. Thanks for the input, especially on the extended whip antenna.
Unlated to above topic.
Batboard Mods..You may already have this available but I found a Moto web site that list radio models and their info as to whether they are 12.5KHz compliant. If not you may want to make available... http://www.motorola.com/web/Business/_D ... 0Guide.pdf
Unlated to above topic.
Batboard Mods..You may already have this available but I found a Moto web site that list radio models and their info as to whether they are 12.5KHz compliant. If not you may want to make available... http://www.motorola.com/web/Business/_D ... 0Guide.pdf
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Sounds like a good plan.
Yeah, an accident, but I learned a lot from it. Chicks dig scars and a slight limp just adds to character.
Yeah, an accident, but I learned a lot from it. Chicks dig scars and a slight limp just adds to character.
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."
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1crazymax
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
- What radios do you own?: CP200's, CM300, Baofeng UV-5RC
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Does anyone have any suggestions about which antenna I should used. I was looking at the RAD4000 or Rad4010 but it says their signals radiate toward the horizon and are for flat open areas. My application will be in the woods, down ravines, and gullies, etc. I guess I'm still learning to crawl. I'll be using a mirror mount with an NMO base and BNC connecter with connects to my CP200 via a BNC antenna adapter. To me it sounds easy, but I'm having to learn as I go. Thanks again and I really appreciate everyones replies and patients.
David
David
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
A regular old 1/4 wave antenna might be your best bet for a more suited radiation pattern for your antenna.
I'd suggesting trying a 1/4 wave and your other one and see which one works for your needs. I've had good luck with UHF bouncing down canyons, and I've had good luck with VHF out in the woods. You'll just need to play around and see which set up works best for you. I have a Polaris Ranger with a VHF CDM750 in it. I've tried both 1/4 wave antennas and 5/8th wave antennas and honestly I can't tell the difference.
On your set up, however, you might have better luck with the longer antenna as it will help make up for the antenna being down on the rack.
I'd suggesting trying a 1/4 wave and your other one and see which one works for your needs. I've had good luck with UHF bouncing down canyons, and I've had good luck with VHF out in the woods. You'll just need to play around and see which set up works best for you. I have a Polaris Ranger with a VHF CDM750 in it. I've tried both 1/4 wave antennas and 5/8th wave antennas and honestly I can't tell the difference.
On your set up, however, you might have better luck with the longer antenna as it will help make up for the antenna being down on the rack.
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."
-
1crazymax
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
- What radios do you own?: CP200's, CM300, Baofeng UV-5RC
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Yeah that's my thinking, trial and error. I bought a cheap 18" whip made in Japan but it's listed as 144 - 450 MHz. I can't see how it will work with that kind of frequency spread. But then I started wondering if an improper antenna could damage the handheld, or are they not effected like a base and mobile? Also, I guess I'll have to use a non-ground plane antenna for mounting on the ATV rack. I purchased a CM200 to put in my truck and bought an 18" Moto HAD4008A for it and a 52" Moto Spectrum RAD4000ARB for the ATV. After I ordered them is when I realized I didn't research the Spectrum to see if it requires a ground plane.
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
The 18" whip with the specs for 144 - 450 just means it can be cut to operate on any frequency between those two. This is standard for a 1/4 wave antenna. It will not cover from 144 to 450 continuously. It should have included a cutting chart that will tell you what length to cut the antenna to resonate at the frequency you want.
An improper antenna can certainly damage a handheld.
The 52" Motorola Spectrum antenna appears to be a 5/8th's wave antenna. It does require a ground plane. It also requires trimming to be resonate at the frequency you are using.
An improper antenna can certainly damage a handheld.
The 52" Motorola Spectrum antenna appears to be a 5/8th's wave antenna. It does require a ground plane. It also requires trimming to be resonate at the frequency you are using.
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."
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1crazymax
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:01 pm
- What radios do you own?: CP200's, CM300, Baofeng UV-5RC
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
The 18" whip is a rubber coated antenna like the MO CP200 OEM antenna, it is not trimable so I figure this is just wasted money. The Spectrum came today but since it requires a ground plane I am not going to open it, I'll probably relist on ebay. I'm starting to assume a non ground plane antenna will be a base loaded one. If you have any suggestions for good VHF non-ground plane antenna in the 150-155 MHz range, I'm open for suggestions. Thanks again for the heads up on the Spectrum.
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HLA
- Posts: 2334
- Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:15 pm
- What radios do you own?: HT1550's, X9000's, CDM1550's
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
On atv's i've always went with a fiberglass marine antennae that don't need a ground plane. an 8 footer with 3db gain is about $40 and has coax attached. mounts with 1/2" pipe thread to a marine mount and has a quick release so it can be folded down for transport just like a boat
HLA
I never check PM's so don't bother, just email me.
I won't reply to a hotmail, gmail, aol or any other generic free address, if you want me to reply use a real address.
STOP ASKING ME FOR SOFTWARE OR FIRMWARE, I JUST FORWARD ALL OF THE REQUESTS TO THE MODERATORS
I never check PM's so don't bother, just email me.
I won't reply to a hotmail, gmail, aol or any other generic free address, if you want me to reply use a real address.
STOP ASKING ME FOR SOFTWARE OR FIRMWARE, I JUST FORWARD ALL OF THE REQUESTS TO THE MODERATORS
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Comtelco A1812A 44 http://www.comtelcoantennas.com/PDF/A1812.PDF1crazymax wrote:[snip] If you have any suggestions for good VHF non-ground plane antenna in the 150-155 MHz range, I'm open for suggestions. Thanks again for the heads up on the Spectrum.
Re: External Whip Antenna for a CP200
Here is a pic of the adaptor you need for the CP200.
I do not have the original Circle-M number handy, but they are available through many parts houses.
Steer clear of costly cable sales like Pasternak, they bite you hard for connectors and specialty adaptors.
You may find RF Parts might have what you need, but they usually do not carry these adaptors.
I do not have the original Circle-M number handy, but they are available through many parts houses.
Steer clear of costly cable sales like Pasternak, they bite you hard for connectors and specialty adaptors.
You may find RF Parts might have what you need, but they usually do not carry these adaptors.