Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Racecar

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CoolHand
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Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Racecar

Post by CoolHand »

OK, here's what I've got and what I'd like to do with it.

I have half a dozen HT50 2 channel portable radios, three mobile vehicle radios (the model number I do not recall at present, but I can find it out if necessary), and another mobile set up as a base station, all left over from when my father operated a construction company. I have most all of the gear that came out of the trucks (antennas, wiring, mounts, etc), and all the stuff that was used with the portables. I have not yet found any of the manuals (which would be very handy right now) or any of the FCC paperwork.

I know that we were licensed to use a specific freq in the business band, but I do not know what it was (I will continue to dig through the documentation until I find it though).

I also have a super low buck racing operation that is in need of a set of two way radios to use as comms between the crew chief/spotter and the driver while on track.

I have found a pin out schematic for the HT50 aux port, but have thus far been unable to find any connectors to mate with it.

My father has two sets of Dave Clark M-4 headsets that he's willing to let me use as well (since he's the crew chief/spotter).

I will need to construct a set of small speakers and a mic that I can mount inside my helmet, and a push to talk button on the steering wheel for the car, plus the wiring harness to interface those three things with the radio itself.

I will also need to construct a PTT button and an interface harness to adapt the HT50 to those Dave Clark head sets and the PTT for the spotter.

I know what I need to do, and I'm pretty decent at actually doing the work, but I have a few questions that two weeks of GoogleFu has failed to answer. Hopefully, that's where you guys come in.

1) If/When I figure out what freq our old BB license was for, what are the chances that it is still in force (IE do those things expire)?
2) If it is not, what are my options from there? Reprogram to a license free freq? New radios? Give up entirely?
3) Where can I find the male plug that interfaces with the aux port on the HT50, or failing that, what is it designated as (so I can make a more intelligent search)?
4) I have a schematic that I think will work for the car harness and helmet harness. That said, does anyone have access to a schematic that is explicitly meant for this application? (IE radio to PTT to helmet speakers & mic OR radio to PTT to DC headset)
5) Can this all be powered from the HT50 battery? If so, how long will that last? Our races are quite short, so if I can get at least an hour's run time out of a battery (not an hour of broadcast), we'll be good. I don't mind changing batteries before the feature, but I've seen features go for 45mins to an hour, and we can't stop to change.
6) I doubt that the 20 yr old batteries are up to this task, so I had planned to buy new ones. Are there any specific aftermarket brands to avoid? Any really good ones?

I know I sound like a mad man here, but I cannot afford to drop a grand or more on brand new radios and ready made harnesses.
This whole effort has been very DIY, and I've had these radios here for decades. Hopefully they can be repurposed without major issue.

When giving advice bear in mind that while this is not my first electronics project (I've built DIY CNC machines, retro fit old CNC machines, and built other less interesting electronic stuff), it IS my first radio project, so I am very liable to not know much (or any) of the nomenclature. Please bear with me on this. I'm a quick learner.

Years ago, I'd have just gone to my local Eagle Electronics store and bent the ear of the tech guy until he'd figured out what parts I needed, sold them to me, and then offered any advice he had. Unfortunately, that old timer is gone now and the Eagle is closed.

All I'm left with now is a half hour drive to Radio Shack where a 17 yr old kid waits to ask me what I need and then perplexedly look at the shelf labels in the vain hope of finding the part there in a blister pak. It's worse than useless.

Mouser and DigiKey have everything under the sun, but that only does me any good if I actually know what the geehaw I'm after is called (which in this case, I do not).

So, I turn to you fine gentlemen in the hopes that at least one of you is an old timer of the caliber I need.
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HLA
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What radios do you own?: HT1550's, X9000's, CDM1550's

Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by HLA »

unfortunately that radio is ancient. If you google it you'll see it labled historic. Your best bet is to buy a newer radio that has helmet options already available to use in the car. You're gonna spend more re-fitting that old radio to work half the time. The newer radios can be programmed to work with what you already have. That's just my 2c.
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Motoboy
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What radios do you own?: HT1250 I saved from the dump

Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by Motoboy »

Do a license search on the FCC ULS (Universal Licensing System) database to figure out what your old freqs were.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... icense.jsp

If you are unable to find your old frequencies here, then they are definitely expired. Most licenses expire ten years from the last renewal. Licensing fees vary. Also, you did not mention the specific band your radios were using (business band is actually a sub-band in the band plan). They could be VHF low band, VHF high band, UHF, or 800Mhz. Your father may remember which band his construction firm was on. If it was VHF High band or UHF, your radio equipment will become illegal to operate in 13 months because of a FCC mandate which requires all radios to operate with narrow channel bandwidth. The HT50 was not capable of this, nor were other radios of that era.

A local radio shop may be willing to rent you some gear using frequencies that are licensed to them. I hate to sound like a wet blanket, but if you are looking for a very low cost solution, this is your best bet.
"I don't have a driver's license, either, and that never got me in trouble!" ~Customer
Sikdmax
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Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by Sikdmax »

www.RuggedRadios.com manufactures all kinds of equipment for circle track, NASCAR, IMSA etc racing. Helmet kits, steering wheel PTTs, portable radios with rollcage boxes, etc. They even have complete kits available. Check them out.
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CoolHand
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Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by CoolHand »

Yeah, I found the FCC license search about a week ago, and ours is definitely expired.

We have been having trouble finding our paperwork, but Dad is almost certain that we were in the VHF High band, so these radios will become outlaws in short order anyway.

That pretty much seals the deal then.

Guess I'll be buying new(er) radios and building the harnesses for them instead.

It just would have been nice to bring the old guys out of mothballs. Mores the pity.

At any rate, now I have a new question.

Since our old license has expired and we're starting from scratch radio wise, what frequency band should I be looking at now, and what license should I be trying to get (if I need one at all)?

The place I race is 3/8 mile in diameter, nearly circular shaped, with no line of sight obstructions in the infield. The place has very high banks such that there is zero LOS from the pit area, but all the spotting is done from above the grand stands, so there's no LOS issue there.

Will a set of Midlands on the FRS channels cut the mustard? Or would the higher power GMRS channels be better? Are all of those channels a bad idea? What about the 900 mHz amateur band? Good or Bad for this sort of thing? Then I read about something called the MURS which is also unlicensed. Would this band be any good for what I'm wanting to do?

I'm much more of a DIY kinda guy than a "buy it all in one big box" kind, so any information you all can share would be most helpful.

If all else fails, I know there are commercial options out there, I'd just really like to try my hand at this before I give up and go that route. If nothing else, I'll learn something about radio communications. :D
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Motoboy
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What radios do you own?: HT1250 I saved from the dump

Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by Motoboy »

Amateur radio is not what you are looking for here. Amateur is strictly that; FCC rules specifically state that you cannot use an Amateur license or a radio frequency for "pecuniary interest", which is essentially monetary gain. I have a cousin that races dirt tracks up here, and he would argue with me on the monetary gain part, but if you win the race then your amateur communications would have been illegal.

I would recommend a license in the UHF band, which gives you the best performance between terrestrial range and structural penetration. There is a very wide selection of radios here, ranging in price from a couple hundred bucks to well over $1000, and upwards from there. You can go all portables, or you can install a mobile in your car with an antenna on the roof that is wired to the car's battery, then you never need to worry about the battery dying toward the end of a long feature.

The best thing to do would be to get a licensed frequency. That way you are least likely to experience interference. If using license-free, that's all well and good, but there could be another team using that same frequency, a dog show in the area, etc. There is a fairly good chance you will experience interference at any given time.

The MURS freqs are VHF High-Band, and are licensed by rule, meaning you don't need a license to operate on them. The FRS freqs are UHF and are also licensed by rule, but you are limited to 1/2-watt transmit power. GMRS (also in UHF) operators must be licensed, and can transmit up to 5 watts (which is the normal operating power of a portable radio), but there are rules against using this spectrum for business use. You could probably use GMRS for racing with no problems, but not around your shop. You could buy some UHF radios and have them programmed for the GMRS freqs after you obtain an operating license, then if you choose to license your own freq at a later date, the radios would only need simple programming to operate on those freqs.

This way you could start small and upgrade as funds warrant. Some radios to look at would be CP200, CP185, PR400, and XPR6350 for portables, and CM200, CM300, PM400 and XPR4350 for mobiles. If you are looking at used equipment, also include the P1225 and M1225, and XPR6300 and XPR4300, though the 1225 series was not very rugged and is now pretty much obsolete.
"I don't have a driver's license, either, and that never got me in trouble!" ~Customer
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Andy Corbin
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Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by Andy Corbin »

At any rate, now I have a new question.

Since our old license has expired and we're starting from scratch radio wise, what frequency band should I be looking at now, and what license should I be trying to get (if I need one at all)?

The place I race is 3/8 mile in diameter, nearly circular shaped, with no line of sight obstructions in the infield. The place has very high banks such that there is zero LOS from the pit area, but all the spotting is done from above the grand stands, so there's no LOS issue there.

Will a set of Midlands on the FRS channels cut the mustard? Or would the higher power GMRS channels be better? Are all of those channels a bad idea? What about the 900 mHz amateur band? Good or Bad for this sort of thing? Then I read about something called the MURS which is also unlicensed. Would this band be any good for what I'm wanting to do?

I'm much more of a DIY kinda guy than a "buy it all in one big box" kind, so any information you all can share would be most helpful.

If all else fails, I know there are commercial options out there, I'd just really like to try my hand at this before I give up and go that route. If nothing else, I'll learn something about radio communications. :D[/quote]

You may want to try a set of the "Tri-Square" radios. I don't know if they can be adapted to your particular task at hand but you can do some looking around on the internet. These are 900mhz, no license required, and would be fairly secure so it would be unlikely anyone else (a competitor) could listen in. I have no personal experience with these radios, but based on what you say you are trying to do, they MAY work. Just another avenue for you to explore.

http://www.amazon.com/TriSquare-TSX300- ... B000WY8JRU

This is just one package, you may want to do some searching on the internet and see what else they offer. Google is your friend.

Andy
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Andy Corbin
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Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by Andy Corbin »

CoolHand wrote:Yeah, I found the FCC license search about a week ago, and ours is definitely expired.


At any rate, now I have a new question.

Since our old license has expired and we're starting from scratch radio wise, what frequency band should I be looking at now, and what license should I be trying to get (if I need one at all)?

The place I race is 3/8 mile in diameter, nearly circular shaped, with no line of sight obstructions in the infield. The place has very high banks such that there is zero LOS from the pit area, but all the spotting is done from above the grand stands, so there's no LOS issue there.

Will a set of Midlands on the FRS channels cut the mustard? Or would the higher power GMRS channels be better? Are all of those channels a bad idea? What about the 900 mHz amateur band? Good or Bad for this sort of thing? Then I read about something called the MURS which is also unlicensed. Would this band be any good for what I'm wanting to do?

I'm much more of a DIY kinda guy than a "buy it all in one big box" kind, so any information you all can share would be most helpful.

If all else fails, I know there are commercial options out there, I'd just really like to try my hand at this before I give up and go that route. If nothing else, I'll learn something about radio communications. :D

I stumbled across this website which may have what you are looking for.
http://www.racecommunications.com/

I have no personal experience with them.
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Bill_G
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Re: Super Newbie Needs Some Guidance - HT50 as 2way for Race

Post by Bill_G »

Racing Radio does it all.

They've always treated me right especially for helmet comm parts. They also sell things like high current dc/dc converters so you can get clean 13.8vdc from a wide input 6-24vdc meaning you can take the alternator off (if you want that 2-4 hp back), move your batteries around to balance out the weight on your frame, and have plenty of juice to run your fuel pump, injection, ecm, marker lights and all your accessories (like a radio) until the packs are almost flat.
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