Digital MSF Boards question

Big Towers · Post by **Big Towers** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:36 pm

Hello MSF guys. Just got a MSF5000 digital control shelf. It has the SSCB and a Secure board piggy backed on it. I have removed the secure board, don't need.

Now, I have discovered that there is 2 seperate boards that maybe comprises the "TTRC", the TTRC Audio board and the TTRC logic Board. My question is, if all I want to do is use this on an analog system, basic repeater station, do I need any part of the TTRC or can the shelf work stand alone as the Analog MSFs would do? In other words, will the SSCB by itself do the required stuff to make a radio work, Frequency, PL, etc.? I saw all the jumpers that need to be placed just so in order to make it "work" without certain boards, but not real sure about it yet.

And second, if I wanted to hook up a remote base simplex radio to a repeater, I would probably want the TTRC as I see where it generates audio ins and outs to the repeater. But, do I need both the Logic and the audio board or can the audio board alone work for this simple purpose, no trunking going on?

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:57 am

Tom,
Yes it will operate. But as you noted the jumpers will have to be changed. Off the top of my head I can't remember which ones. There are certain ones for the secure board and the ttrc board. Leaving the ttrc board in it sure makes life easier for interfaces.
Doug

kcbooboo · Post by **kcbooboo** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:08 pm

I'm pretty sure that you need both the TTRC boards, as one contains analog circuitry (audio processing and tone recognition) and one contains digital circuitry (i.e. the microprocessor). I don't believe you can use one without the other.

There are about 30 jumpers on the control board. Maybe a dozen affect whether you have a TTRC or not. I have the TTRC, my jumpers do not seem to agree with the manual settings, yet it still works just fine. If you need to know the jumper settings, I think I have a computer file with them that I could try to send to you.

Depending on your needs, there are a few signals that are present on the TTRC that give you a reliable indication of a carrier with PL on the input of the receiver, which you can send to an external device as a COR signal. It may be possible to derive these signals on the main control board, but it may not be easy. In my case, I'm making use of the MRTI connector on the control board for everything except COR.

Over in the MSF5000-specific section of BatLabs.com you will find an article that I did regarding interfacing to an MSF5000. It's a 10-page PDF file with more information in it than you'll ever need.

Bob M.

bernie · Post by **bernie** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:11 am

My two bits worth:
1) the TTRC must have the "Kernel board"
that is also how the TTRC is connected to the outside world.

2) there are only two jumpers that you need to be
concerned with: Ju 1& 2 which are in the HSR
(High Speed Ring) circuit.
These are located by the ribbon connector for the TTRC.
Ju1 is for the TTRC this jumper is set to the alt position,
Ju2 is for secure, set to normal. ( normally station does not have secure)
The little white square by the pin denotes normal

It it necessary to configure the RSS in the model options screens for no secure, and no TTRC.

Big Towers · Post by **Big Towers** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:45 am

Hi Bernie,

I basically did what you said in that I have the manual and JU1 and 2 were the ones mentioned, although I found a couple other jumpers dealing with the TTRC or Secure board as well.

I have a VHF drawer unit and the control shelf, powered it up with a Power Supply. Now, even after putting the jumpers for no TTRC or Secure, I still get an error code that said basically something wrong with the TTRC. I forget now which exact code it was. Now the question you bring to mind, I did not ever hook up a computer and try any programming. Do you think I need to reprogram the radio for a non-secure non TTRC model and the error would go away? Makes sense to me now that you mention it. This was bought as a spare parts deal so haven't spent a bunch of time on it yet. If that is the probable problem, then I will drag out a spare PS again and plug it in and see.

Thanks

Big Towers · Post by **Big Towers** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:22 am

Bernie,

Went out to the shop and sure enough, once I programmed the unit without a TTRC everything came to life normally, both VCOs locked, good spare parts.

Almost ran into a problem in that the SSCB has version 3 and my other radio was version 4 and the RSS didn't like that (much like the Motorola buy new RSS weekly MTSX series stuff), but fortunately in my Archive was a CONV.DEF that I was able to load into the SSCB as version 3.

Thanks,

bernie · Post by **bernie** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:31 am

My two bits worth:

You MUST make a new CP WITHOUT the TTRC, and Secure boards.
Otherwise it will not work, and will have all sorts of errors.
Let me know if you have problems configuring the RSS for your application.

The other jumpers have to do with trunking, and secure, and if you trace the jumpers you will find that most of them are connected to nothing with the TTRC, and secure boards dis connected.
Mostly, they have to do with audio.

Big Towers · Post by **Big Towers** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:17 am

Thats what I did.

I couldn't read the existing station as the RSS generated No TTRC errors. So, I grabbed an archived file for another VHF station and under station Options "Disabled" the TTRC and Secure functions. When I tried to load this CP into the new unit, I got the dreaded "Codeplug to new", or words to that affect.

Fortunately, a Conventional codeplug I had in the archive was able to load to the unit with the same above changes as version 3. I was getting worried that I would be on begging for a version 3 archive here, but had one.

Just finished checking the receiver and it is at specs, and the exciter wants to work, but no PA and thus no power control so it shuts off immediately, but I suspect it is fine.

I ended up just leaving all the jumpers except JU 1 and 2 as they were.

Thanks

bernie · Post by **bernie** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:51 am

My two bits worth:
You found out that you must pay attention to the firmware version.
I would update to V5.xx. I can copy a chip for you (27C512), or send it in a file, and you can blow your own chip if you have a programmer.

I am not sure about the VHF station, but on other bands it is possible to get the IPA to make power by setting the power control until you get power.

The control loop is broken, with no directional coupler input from the missing PA, so it will be rather erratic.

If you were using RSSv 5.19 or 21 with V5 firmware it would be possible to read the station with "Fatal Errors"

Big Towers · Post by **Big Towers** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:40 pm

Bernie,

I e-mailed you the info on the Firmware help. I have played with a six watt UHF unit that worked fine with the "PA"/circulator heatsink installed and it wouldn't work without the connection to it. I added the parts and made it into a 45 watt PA and it worked but poorly. I then discovered that a resistor change was needed in the PA to the 45 watt requirement. The 6 watt version was different. I don't remember values but remember the need and that I couldn't get the IPA to generate anything without the signal from the PA.

Thanks for the help and I hope the firmware will work out. It is currently 3.25. I don't know what bugs are fixed or new usefull stuff is in the newer firmware. I don't even know what RSS version I have for sure. It works with version 4 as I have that in the operating VHF unit. Will look when I get back home next week. I know it only runs on the slowest computers around!

Tom