Console: Zetron or Motorola or other..

Ett1033 · Post by **Ett1033** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:20 pm

Well, we are in the market for a new dispatch console. We have 2 positions now, looking to possibly expand to 3. Currently have a Centracom II. A Gold Elite is being pushed on us, but I am not sure that is the best fit.
I have heard nothing but good about Zetron regarding price, performance, and upgradeable firmware.
Recommendations?

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:23 pm

Zetron makes outstanding stuff. I have never personally used it but I know lots of people who do and they are top-notch.

We have a PC based Orbacom in my town. I don't use it but it is also a very nice setup. Very user customizable and can do just about anything.

Where I work, it is a Gold Elite which I have used and tinkered with extensively. I have no major complaints about it. I wasn't involved in the purchase of it, however I would be willing to bet it costs more than the other two options above.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:23 pm

I am a big fan of Zetron. It is not cheap, but compared to Motorola stuff, most anything looks reasonable. Zetron service is good, if sometimes slow, but dealing with the company can sometimes be a pain.

Zetron has two basic families of consoles. The 4010 series are basically standalone consoles (i.e., the desktop or rackmount box contains all of the line card for each line), and multiple console positions are effectively parallel remotes. This works for 2 positions, but begins to become difficult to balance and maintain for more. The Series 4000 uses a central electronics bank, where each console position is basically an extended local on a common remote, and is more stable and flexible if more than 2 positions are needed (or may be needed in the future). Note that it is all but impossible to tell by looking which you have, since the layouts of both are the same.

Console positions for the Series 4000 may be either button-and-lights (my preference) or PC-based. The 4010 is limited to buttons-and-lights. Over the years, the Zetron console product line has been more stable that Motorola's.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:38 pm

We do have this recurring problem where the Centracom Gold has a kanipshit and locks up. The audio routing and microphone configurations go bonkers and it will just look at you like an idiot until you climb under the console and force power-off the PC. It all comes back once your force a re-boot, but they can't seem to tell me WHY it does this. It is NOT any kind of Windows problem.

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:14 am

nmfire10 wrote:We do have this recurring problem where the Centracom Gold has a kanipshit and locks up. The audio routing and microphone configurations go bonkers and it will just look at you like an idiot until you climb under the console and force power-off the PC. It all comes back once your force a re-boot, but they can't seem to tell me WHY it does this. It is NOT any kind of Windows problem.

Has system support sent you a copy of "Appsight" to install on the affected consoles? It's a diagnostic logging program designed specifically to track Elite.exe, along with anything else that's going on in the computer (calls, handles, everything). Anytime there's issues such as lock-ups or self-terminating programs, this would need to be installed in order for them to even begin to say what the cause might be.

Before you get to the 'Appsight' stage, they usually require you to send in Dr Watson logs & Event Viewer logs, along with Centracom's own log "CDI.log" which capture events in their own way. Have you done this step?

Todd

kb4mdz · Post by **kb4mdz** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:29 am

Hmmmm, another fine example of M's 6-sigma Quality process capability program. The short version of 6-sigma is that 99.99995% of the results of a process is 'good', or correct, or within specification.

nmfire10 posted:
Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject:
We do have this recurring problem where the Centracom Gold has a kanipshit and locks up. The audio routing and microphone configurations go bonkers and it will just look at you like an idiot until you climb under the console and force power-off the PC. It all comes back once your force a re-boot, but they can't seem to tell me WHY it does this. It is NOT any kind of Windows problem.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:25 am

Without knowing the cause of the "kanipshit," I point out that it is entirely possible that the problem lies within Windows NT, rather than the Motorola/Zetron issue. This is one of the reasons why I prefer button-and-light consoles over PC-based consoles.

While the PC-based installations give you a lot of pretty pictures, and on rare occasion even some useful information, for my money they violate the rule that a tool should never be more complicated than is necessary to perform the mission. Each extra complication is another failure source, and the overall reliability of any tool (or system) is inversely proportional to the number of potential failure sources. Since Windows is an unfinished product, by definition everything written to work under it is inherently unreliable.

Button programming for the Series 4000 is quite flexible. It may take a couple of tries to get it "right" (i.e., so that the buttons do exactly what you had in mind), but once you do, the buttons will continue to function exactly as programmed without "kanipshits."

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:45 am

MSS came in and took the PC back to their shop. I have yet to establish what they did but naturally they were "unable to replicate the problem." Now that I know about this APPSIGHT program, I will make some inquiries.

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:13 am

Yeah, I recall your previous post about the problem. Bottom line, the techs could never possibly 'duplicate the problem' if it wasn't still hooked to your, or at least somebody's, CEB.

Todd

daveriffel · Post by **daveriffel** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:11 pm

I have used both Motorola and Zetron, I have been involved in system design and implementation with both systems...HANDS DOWN ZETRON!!!! Zetron will do things that Motorola refuses to even try Zetron consoles were doing cross band/system patching(800mhz to 150 mhz) when Motorola absolutely said it could not be done without expensive additional equipment....Zetron bent over backwards for the last center I worked in where as Motorola didn't seem real interested in our input and were quick to argue as opposed to help witht he problems. So no questions asked for function, durability,price and overall good looks...Zetron No bones about it.

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:51 pm

I have had the pleasure of not only working on both consoles, but I have been out to both factories for training on them. I would have to agree that ZETRON IS BETTER!!! these guys will bend over backwards for you if you have a problem.

By the way, I also know of 2 other Centracom II gold elite CRT consoles that have a nasty intermittent problem of locking up, and at the same time keying up a bunch of chanels! this happens rarely, but when it does it's chaos! Even resetting the computer won't always help. Worst case we had to reset the COIM. I made sure to tell (/\/\) about what problems I am having, and they love to play dodge ball...

"wow...really?...Never heard that one before!"

Anyway, it's back to square one. I hope someone is getting farther. If I had a choice, next time ZETRON for sure!!!

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:07 pm

Motorola is increasingly moving to MGEG, including encryption, so this approach will keep you in sync with Motorola as they evolve their infrastructure to digital and the Internet (and private digital Nets), including the new Summit, etc.

Radiogeek97 · Post by **Radiogeek97** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:52 am

The shop i worked for sold both moto and zetron, and i will chime in and put in a vote for zetron. The folks at their factory were always helpful and even if the product i needed info on was well out of production I was treated like a customer who just spent 25grand.
The only thing i am not too sure about with zetron is how much compatability there is with MDC signalling. Where mdc is propriatery can and will a zetron consold decode PTT id's emergencies and call alert /radio check? Mabee some experts here can help out in that regard. I also hear that zetron can interface with nextel now???

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:50 pm

I know the Orbacom can handle MDC ID and emergency decode so I would imagine Zetron can do it too.

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:12 pm

To the best of my knowledge, the Zetron console can support full MDC.

On a side note, I wish that Zetron had a better looking GUI interface for their CRT system. it still looks kinda like an old DOS application. On the plus side, they don't seem to have as many issues with lockups

-WEC

psapengineer · Post by **psapengineer** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:35 pm

We've been using Zetron since 1999. It's worked well for us.
Bob

USGOVTECH · Post by **USGOVTECH** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:17 pm

I am familiar with Zetron, Motorola, Orbacom, Moducom and GAI-Tronics. It really depends on what features you want, Zetron is very Feature Rich and reliable no to expensive, Motorola are nothing to brag about not as feature rich and Much more expensive, Orbacom is OK and reasonably priced, Moducom OOOUCH a way overpriced console for the features it offers STAY AWAY!!! GAI-Tronics are very good and easy to use and they are reliable they offer a button and led version as well as a PC based version this version is called Navigator for the price the Navigator blows everyone else out of the water and not to mention the console is very reliable and user friendly, GAI-Tronics Navigator consoles are the real deal here in my opinion. I have replaced several Motorla Centracom consoles with the GAI-Tronics navigator system and the end users could not beleive the price and quality of the Navigator. God Luck!!

Console: Zetron or Motorola or other..

Console: Zetron or Motorola or other..

Console; Zetron or ...

Zetron Motorola or other

Zetron