What is this CRAP? Warning for CPS RSS request?

webmedics · Post by **webmedics** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:07 am

I posted that a DLL file is repeatedly missing when starting my CPS. Since when is a DLL file a CPS or RSS issue?

I've reinstalled my CPS version 4 several times in an attempt to program a radio. For all I know this is something that's not even realted to the ProRadio software, it coudl be some glitch such as the cross over to the GM300 or any of the other CPS (NOT RSS) based programs I have installed, or really the question I had, UN Installed.

I'm asking the group "So if I removed the CPS for the MCS2000, did that some how remove this missig DLL file?" "Is that why I'm getting the error message?"

Hey, wait ... that the QUESTION I had posted... I'm getting an error message, can anyone help? Next thign I know you're adding 2 warning to my avitar? That's crap!!!

Post by **alex** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:32 am

Well, let's see....

You:

a) Asked for a DLL file which is considered part of the RSS/CPS.

Per: http://batboard.batlabs.com/faq.php#2

This rule includes asking for "parts" of the RSS - modified or un-modified.

This will get you an RSS warning.

That's warning number one.

The second one:

This rule covers any aspect of communication involving the board - including email, PM, etc.

You in a PM asked another user for RSS/CPS.

This again, violates the rule. The user sent a copy of his PM to me, and thus, you were given the second warning.

In fact, if you want to really get technical....

After two warnings your account will be removed.

I could just be a complete ass - and remove your account.

-Alex

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:32 am

Not to stir the pot, but what DLL was it again? I seem to recall reading the original post and it was not a DLL file that is NATIVE to the RSS/CPS, but a part of windows.

Anyway, DLL files are widely available on many DLL archive/library websites, some of which require a paid subscription. You don't see Microsoft going after them for makig parts of windows available, and they sure could. I doubt Motorola is going to spend the time prosecuting someone over a DLL file.

Post by **alex** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:07 pm

The offending thread is:

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=55190

Now, here's the issue that I have:

We (admins and moderators) spend a lot of time going over this board in our spare time to help keep things on track and within the rules. While I understand that if this DLL was part of windows - and there are sources online which distribute the DLL's, it's not for me to say it's not copyrighted or otherwise protected material. I could also have spent some time researching the individual file - which might also require me, or another mod/admin having the actual software in question.

With this in mind, I would rather see us air on the side of caution. In the thread, the author (webmedics) clearly states:

My CPS (version 4) is telling me it's missing a dll file when I fire it up

Which immediatly leaves anyone reading it to believe that it's a part of the cps. Because the file name was removed (and I respectfully ask that it not be posted here, hopefully for obvious reasons) I don't know what file it was off hand that is in question.

I'd like to add that there are links, as well as information clearly posted on the main page directing people to actually read the FAQ, but also - the rules of the board in general are posted there.

While in the end, this does look like a bit of a gray area, I believe tha James in the case acted as he should have in issuing the warning. Because it is described as a CPS related DLL - we are going to air on the side of caution. Is someone going to come down with an iron fist over that - I highly doubt it - but that company has done other things that mistfy people... (read the thread on sending the depot to mexico...)

The second warning was issued after this individual PM'ed another user on the board requesting a new version of a piece of CPS. That user forwarded me a copy of that PM via PM, and the user was issued another warning for that reason.

Sorry, but out of all the rules people claim that we gently/selectivly/whatever enforce - this is probably the one that we have to be the most strict about.

-Alex

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:20 pm

What about purchasing/selling/trading genuine RSS? I want to post and ad trading one version for a similar one.

Post by **xmo** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:37 pm

"What about purchasing/selling/trading genuine RSS?"
____________________________________________

The Motorola license agreement does not permit any of that.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:07 pm

Interesting; maybe they should include that disclaimer statement in their software or put a license.txt along with it.

Post by **wavetar** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:04 pm

Just for everyone's benefit, here's a copy of the Canadian License agreement for RSS, so you can all read the legal mumbo-jumbo. I've never seen the U.S. version. I assume it's very similar, but maybe someone could post that as well.

Code: Select all

MOTOROLA CANADA LIMITED
RADIO SERVICE SOFTWARE LICENCE AGREEMENT
LICENCE
Motorola Canada Limited (“MOTOROLA”) hereby provides you with a copy of a licence agreement (the
“Licence Agreement”) for the use of Motorola’s Radio Service Software and accompanying electronic or
written material (the “Package”). The Package is a business aid. You hereby assume complete
responsibility for ensuring the accuracy of input into and output from the Package and for any decisions
made or action taken based on the Package. You agree that the Package is being licensed to you for
the purpose of/and in the course of carrying on your business.
YOU MAY ONLY
(A) use the Radio Service computer program or any part thereof (“Program”) in Canada, only at a
single location and only on a single machine which has only one CPU: (B) use the Package solely for
your own internal purpose of diagnosing malfunctions in, making repairs to, and if applicable, creating
radio profiles for the programmable radio equipment models serviced by the Program: and (C) make
copies of the Package for either archival or back-up purposes to assist you only in your own internal
business needs and not for your customers or third parties.
If you assign or transfer any of your rights or obligations in or to the Package or any copy or partial copy,
modification or merged portion of the Package, without Motorola’s prior written consent, then your right
to use the Program and accompanying documents contained in the Package or any other part thereof
shall immediately be terminated and you must at that time destroy any copies not so transferred.
YOU MAY NOT
(A) disassemble or reverse engineer the Program; (B) cause any portion of the Package to be made
the subject of a copy, reproduction, modification, derivation date transmission, transfer, adaptation or
translation, in any form, except as expressly provided for by this Licence Agreement; (C) permit the
Program to be accessed or used from more than one location, by more than a single CPU or by remote
access from any location; or (D) disclose, transfer or otherwise make available in any form the radio
profile data, the Package or any portion thereof, to any person other than your employees, and in the
case of the latter, only to the extent necessary for your employees to use the Package in accordance
with this licence Agreement.
TERMS
The licence granted hereunder shall continue for as long as you use the Program, unless otherwise
terminated as set forth in this Licence Agreement. This Licence Agreement and the licence will
terminate if you fail to comply with any term or condition of this Licence Agreement, in which case you
agree, upon termination, to destroy the Package in any form made or permitted to be made by or on
behalf of you. You may terminate this licence and Licence Agreement by returning to Motorola the
Package in any form made or permitted to be made by or on behalf of you.
SOFTWARE UPGRADES
It is the practice of Motorola to make available to its customers, for up to three years, commencing at
the date of shipment of the Program, software upgrades available for the Program.
WARRANTIES
- 1 -
Motorola warrants to you, the original licensee only, that the media contained in this Package on which
the Program operates will be free from defects in material and workmanship under normal use for ninety
(90) days from the date this licence commences. If, during this period, a defect in the media should
occur, return the media to Motorola at the below mentioned address, Motorola will replace it without
charge. If the defect has resulted from accident, abuse or misuse, or if the enclosed registration card
was not immediately filled out and returned to your dealer or Motorola, Motorola shall not be responsible
for support or field service of the Program or user’s manual. Any maintenance by Motorola, if available,
shall be by separate agreement on Motorola’s then current terms and conditions for such maintenance.
This warranty gives you specific legal rights and remedies which vary from province to province and
which arise by operation of law.
LIMITATION OF WARRANTIES AND LIABILITY
Except for the express warranties stated in the “Warranties” section, Motorola makes no further
warranties, and to the extent permitted by law, the Package is licensed “as is” and Motorola excludes all
other warranties and conditions, expressed or implied, including but not limited to any warranties as to
merchantable quality or fitness for a particular purpose. The entire risk as to the result and performance
of the Package is assumed by you. Implied warranties, if any, which may not be disclaimed shall, to the
extent permitted by law, be limited in time to ninety (90) days from the date licence commences. To the
extent permitted by law, neither Motorola nor its agents, employees or representatives will have any
liability to you or any other person or entity for any indirect, incidental, special or consequential
damages, including but not limited to commercial loss; inconvenience; loss of use, time, data, goodwill,
revenues, profits or savings or other special, incidental, indirect, or consequential damages in any way
related to or arising from this Licence Agreement or for any claim by any other person or entity. To the
extent permitted by law and with respect to any liability not exempt from the foregoing, we will have a
maximum aggregate liability under this Licence Agreement or with respect to the Package or its use,
which shall not exceed the licence fee paid hereunder for the use of the Package.
COPIES
You acknowledge that the Package contains valuable proprietary information and trade secrets of
Motorola and that unauthorized dissemination of same or radio profile data could cause irreparable
harm. You agree to take appropriate action by instruction, agreement or otherwise, with any persons
given access to the Package, or radio profiles data, or any portion thereof, so as to obligate that person
to hold the Package and radio profile data in confidence and otherwise satisfy your obligations under
this Licence Agreement. The Package, and all copies and partial copies of same made or permitted to
be made by or on behalf of you and all rights and patents, copyrights, trade the property of Motorola and
no title is transferred to you.
Violation of copyright law may result in civil and criminal damages and penalties. You must reproduce
and include all copyright and trademark notices other proprietary legends on any copies of the Package
made by you. If you make, or allow to be made, any copies of the Package not permitted by this
Licence Agreement, you will, upon demand by Motorola, pay to Motorola for each unauthorized copy so
made, an amount equivalent to the amount paid by you under this Licence Agreement for the original
Package. The obligations contained in this paragraph shall survive both the termination of this licence
and the termination of the Licence Agreement.
- 2 -
GENERAL
Please fill in, sign and deliver or mail the enclosed registration card immediately to: Motorola Canada
Limited, Aftermarket Accessories Division, 8133 Warden Avenue, Markham, Ontario L6G 1B3.
This registration card will serve as proof of the commencement of the licence in the event of a defective
diskette. The failure to enforce, or the waiver of any breach, of any term of this Licence Agreement shall
not constitute the waiver of such term at any time or any circumstance and shall not give rise to any
restriction on or condition to the prompt, full and strict enforcement of the terms of this Licence
Agreement. No action, regardless of form, arising out of this Licence Agreement may be brought by you
more than one (1) year after the cause of action has arisen. You hereby agree that this Licence
Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between us relating to the subject matter hereof which
supersedes any proposal or prior agreement, oral or written, and other communication between us
relating to the subject matter of this Licence Agreement.
This Licence Agreement shall not be modified, amended, rescinded, cancelled or waived in whole or in
part except by a written amendment signed by both you and one of our company’s officers. No other
person has the actual or implied authority, on behalf of Motorola, to make any representations or to vary
the terms, conditions or exclusions of this Licence Agreement or to make any other express warranty
other than those included in this Licence Agreement. This Licence Agreement shall be governed by
and interpreted under the laws of Canada and to the extent applicable the laws of the Province of
Ontario. The courts of the Province of Ontario shall have sole jurisdiction with respect to disputes
arising from this Licence Agreement. To the extent the Licence Agreement conflicts with the registration
card included in the Package, the Licence Agreement shall prevail and govern. You hereby
acknowledge that you have read this Licence Agreement, understand it and agree to be bound by these
terms and conditions.
- 3 -
MOTOROLA CANADA LIMITED LICENCE AND REGISTRATION CARD
I HAVE READ THE MOTOROLA RADIO SERVICE SOFTWARE LICENCE AGREEMENT AND AGREE TO
BE BOUND BY ALL ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS.
COMPANY NAME:
(Please Print)
ADDRESS:
TELEPHONE #: ( ) -
FAX #: ( ) -
AUTHORIZED DEALER FROM WHOM
PACKAGE WAS OBTAINED:
YOUR ORDER #:
NAME:
(Please Print)
SIGNATURE:
DATE: / /
dd / mm / yy
- 4 -

boomboy64 · Post by **boomboy64** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:36 pm

chipjumper wrote:Interesting; maybe they should include that disclaimer statement in their software or put a license.txt along with it.

Well, Mother M won't even sell you the software unless you agree to their licensing provisions, and it is very well spelled out. Doesn't need to be in a .txt file like a lot of software uses as it is spelled out well in advance of any purchase by the original owner. Given that the same agreement prohibits any subsequent transfer, any license.txt file would be moot.

Cheers,

Boomboy64

AEC · Post by **AEC** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:42 pm

While Circle-M's 'license' has the appearance of legality, but the trouble begins ONLY after the 'package' arrives and is opened, and only then, are you faced with licensing issues, and in the U.S, a contract is invalid if there is/are no signatures attached to the 'contract' at the time of purchase, not after the fact.

That would fall under the 'contract' for killing someone, which of course is illegal as well.

To play Circle-M's game of legality, one must sign a contract before the money or the the transaction actually takes place, otherwise, you are pre-signing to a set of restrictions that you are or were unaware of prior to the sale, and this woule make the 'license' invalid.

Eulas enclosed in the Winblows packages have always been disregarded and unenforceable as they can not be validated or legal without signatures attesting to the sale or outlining the conditions of said sale.

Regardless of what Circle-M prints and places inside the RSS packets, they are not legally binding 'contracts'.

1. No outward description detailing what is offered for sale.

2. No signatures of seller authorizing the sale.

3. No detailed description detailing the restrictions of the 'package' PRIOR to the offer for sale, which should include copyright notices, intellectual property restrictions and all legal topics and details regarding the fitness for sale as well as all conditions after the sale should be up front and known by the purchaser before the sale is completed.

4. Aside from copyright notices on all private works that are well known, there are always other notices that any purchaser may be unaware of, and not having a full description of these as well as the 'standard' copyright notices will cause the purchaser harm.

5. 'After-the-fact' contracts have rarely been legally enforceable according to my cousin who is a copyright/IP attorney in CA.
As they can not force you to accept their terms after the sale has been made.
That has the appearance of a forced sale, which harms the buyer in all cases.
Case in point: Getting you oil changed and the service shop said they had to replace your A/C system, and made those 'repairs' without your consent, but billed you for it and held your property hostage until you paid. That is the exact same thing you are being forced to do by accepting certain and specific terms that only benefits the seller of the software, and this is where the 'harm' and injury comes in.

Since I am not a lawyer and never played one on TV, I can't back up my comments with pure fact, as they are excerpts from conversations with real attorneys that are involved in this field, hence my stating them here.

Enterprise.....One to beam up!

HLA · Post by **HLA** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:29 pm

reguardless of anything else the rules of this site are quite simple in that you don't ask for cps or rss in full or in part and you clearly came right out and asked if anyone had the .dll file they could send you. now on the rest of your question when you uninstal the program windows will ask you if you want to remove the remaining .dll file if it's not being used by any other program so it would be up to you and if you clicked yes or no to remove it. but never the less if you re install it, it will be put back.

boomboy64 · Post by **boomboy64** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:30 pm

AEC wrote:'After-the-fact' contracts have rarely been legally enforceable according to my cousin who is a copyright/IP attorney in CA.
As they can not force you to accept their terms after the sale has been made.

I fully agree that after-the-fact EULAs are crap, but this isn't what we are talking about here. As mentioned above, Mother M won't even sell you the software in the first place unless you sign their agreement before / if they even decide to sell it to you. You have to agree to these terms before you buy it, so it isn't after-the-fact...

Cheers,

Boomboy64

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:49 pm

http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorol ... ss-sla.pdf

The US EULA.

W6JK · Post by **W6JK** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:35 pm

I sure was surprised to find this in there:

wavetar wrote:If you assign or transfer any of your rights or obligations in or to the Package or any copy or partial copy,
modification or merged portion of the Package, without Motorola’s prior written consent, then your right
to use the Program and accompanying documents contained in the Package or any other part thereof
shall immediately be terminated and you must at that time destroy any copies not so transferred.

It says, not that you can't tranfer your (Canadian) software, but that if you do you lose your rights to it (which seems rather obvious). I couldn't find this language in the U.S. version, but I admit that my eyes glazed over in making the attempt. Could it be that our neighbors to the north are treated better than we U.S.ians are in this matter?

Al · Post by Al » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:55 am

Maybe I missed it in WebMedics' or other comments above, but if WebMedics' CPS/RSS was properly licensed by Motorola, they would have been more than happy to provide a solution to his missing file error, because when you pay for CPS/RSS you are buying a three year subscription which entitles you to support from Motorola. Therefore the proper place to ask for support would have been from Motorola, not here in a forum.

Post by **wavetar** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:13 pm

Al wrote:Maybe I missed it in WebMedics' or other comments above, but if WebMedics' CPS/RSS was properly licensed by Motorola, they would have been more than happy to provide a solution to his missing file error, because when you pay for CPS/RSS you are buying a three year subscription which entitles you to support from Motorola. Therefore the proper place to ask for support would have been from Motorola, not here in a forum.

His version is 4.00.00, which is more than 3 years old, so it's a moot point.

Todd

wa2zdy · Post by **wa2zdy** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:30 pm

AEC you may or may not be correct, but I'll tell you something. No matter how right I may be and/or how wrong Ma M may be, they have more lawyers and more money to pay them than I'll ever have.

Fighting them would be kinda like a land war against the communist Chinese. At the rate their population grows, they will NEVER run out of reinforcements. So by default we lose.

Bottom line, no matter what the Ma M EULA says, the rules of this board are simple. No asking, no offering.

Seems pretty simple to me.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:07 pm

Well said Chris.

And with that I think we can let this go... Point proven. I will not lock the topic, but I think it's pretty safe to say that the horse is dead.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:38 pm

On to the glue factory...

Grumpy old men.

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:56 pm

wa2zdy wrote:AEC you may or may not be correct, but I'll tell you something. No matter how right I may be and/or how wrong Ma M may be, they have more lawyers and more money to pay them than I'll ever have.

Yes. We proved that in October of last year.

Jeff

KE7DZZ · Post by **KE7DZZ** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:45 pm

I stumbled upon this thread while looking for something else and a question popped into my head. If one can't ask for or offer "any part of RSS or CPS" then how is it that one can ask for a "codeplug"? Is a codeplug not a part of the software?

Post by **alex** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:51 pm

This has been asked and covered several times here.

Think of it this way -

You can type up a word document, and send it off to a friend who also has word, and there's no violation of Microsoft's Intellectual Property.

You can pretty much think of the codeplug in the same light. For example, it contains the frequency and pl information on channels the radio is programmed for. It's not something that's otherwise hard coded from the factory.

-Alex

KE7DZZ · Post by **KE7DZZ** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:10 pm

alex wrote:This has been asked and covered several times here.

Think of it this way -

You can type up a word document, and send it off to a friend who also has word, and there's no violation of Microsoft's Intellectual Property.

You can pretty much think of the codeplug in the same light. For example, it contains the frequency and pl information on channels the radio is programmed for. It's not something that's otherwise hard coded from the factory.

-Alex

OK thanks, I get it now. I am still wet behind the ears when it comes to all this Moto stuff. Sorry if I caused any disruption.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:18 am

alex wrote:This has been asked and covered several times here.

Think of it this way -

You can type up a word document, and send it off to a friend who also has word, and there's no violation of Microsoft's Intellectual Property.

You can pretty much think of the codeplug in the same light. For example, it contains the frequency and pl information on channels the radio is programmed for. It's not something that's otherwise hard coded from the factory.

-Alex

Codeplugs contain a copyright notice within the first few bytes.

Post by **alex** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:33 am

The point is moot. I'm not trying to downplay a copyright - however, it's been stated a number of times here - the code plug contains specific unique information with respect to how a unit is programmed.

Do some searching on here. I'm not a lawyer, this is a message board, so take it for what you want.

It's been allowed on Batboard for ages - I don't see that changing.

-Alex