APX7000 ... M's shot across the bow of Thales...

[MT2000 man]

Wow, it looks like Motorola is bringing back the looks to the old Saber series . . . . and them some. I agree, that training for this radio should prove to be VERY interesting. "Where does the belt clip go?". "Oh, it goes on the SIDE of the radio". lol

[techie]

The San Francisco area also has a lot of T-band.. mostly conventional, with a pair of P-25 smartzone systems, as well as some 800 type-II, a couple of EDACS, VHF, and even a bit of lowband. Most of the peninsula from SF -> south is T band, as well as some of the east bay.

[afterimage84]

"Where does the belt clip go?". "Oh, it goes on the SIDE of the radio". lol

What many people seem to missing here is that Motorola is not looking for the "belt clip" world of radio users as it's core group of customers. They never have and never will. The numbers are simply not there and never possibly could be. How receptive is any real dealer to the radio junky? Sad to say but as we all know for the *most* part they can't be bothered. Trained to sell boxes and there is no time to disscus the subtle differences between this control head or that with someone who isn't going to buy ONE new let alone 5000...and has no real world input on the agency that is buying 5000.

As far as a UHF there is no way they will make a continous band V-U-7-8. Why? Where is the money in that?! Yes it would be ideal for those areas that have such a mix up of bands but it is a case of now you only have to buy TWO radios rather than 3 or 4.

Ultimately, if the Thales poses too much of a real threat M will buy controlling interest in them too...

[Tom in D.C.]

One small point to be made (though this thread is getting sort of off topic) is that Thales is part of a $60 billion organization. They sell a LOT of equipment to DOD, plus I'll bet a lot more to foreign governments. You'll find it difficult to view a photo of a combat infantryman or marine these days who is not carrying a Thales MBITR. Personally I have a lot of respect for an outfit that can produce a quad-band HT on its own. Thales also has employees who belong to this board who are open and friendly, unlike the "other" radio company.

[Jason]

So, where's the belt clip go?

Obviously, there isnt one. You have to use a carry case with the APX Model III.

[ads47]

There is a clip/holster like a cell phone. Read the brochure and mirco-site. While in the clip the data side is protected and it just looks like a model 1 type radio. If you need to use the data side you slide it out. It looks like a pretty slick set up, we will see how well it sells though. It may be too over the top for those set in tradition.


ads

[TWL911]

I don't get it. How is motorola going to make a multi band radio that fits into THEIR pricing structure?
As it is the Liberty is supposed to be priced in the 4-6000 range. One can easily drop 4k or better on a single band XTS5000. How is Motorola going to produce a multi band P25 radio and price it so that it is both competitive with Thales, and not only dollars away from their top tier single band XTS ?

[Tom in D.C.]

The fast, smartass, answer to your question is, "It's not like buying baloney."
What this means, at least to me, is that if a single band radio costs $1,000
then a dual band radio does NOT cost double that, with the reasons being
pretty obvious if you know anything about radios. The other, and very important,
factor is how items are priced, which would include actual costs, development costs,
profit, and, last but not least, how much you can get away with charging and still
not lose market share. Take a look at the cheap, crappy dual band radios the Chinese
are now turning out for under $100. Sure, they're junk, but the fact is that they work,
at least for a while. Not commercial quality, obviously, but the things are coming out of
the factory fully burdened as to production costs and selling for next to nothing.
Just something to think about.

[afterimage84]

Well and to add to that they (China KO's) are for the "belt clip" market. Many people who want a radio (PRIOR to buying, using and breaking it 3 months later) see a dual band that "looks like an EX600 (or whatever), so it must be the same!" These are the same people that will swear up and down that it is the best thing in the world and only cost 3 bucks!

I think that the Thales Liberty is on the right track and my demo is supposed to be *coming soon*. They ask you on a questionare if you would like to see a mobile of the same theme...uh...yea?

[Jim1348]

I think it will be very interesting to read end user reports from people out in the field using the APX700 vs. Thales vs. Harris. I would like to know, for example, how robust the scanning capabilities are on each. Will this allow the operator to scan seamlessly from one band to the next, from conventional to trunked, etc. I actually wouldn't mind having a radio that would scan both trunked talkgroups and P-25 conventional simplex channels.

[4n6inv]

They've had those here in China since my last trip in March. All I know is that it a cross platform dual band(? or more) radio. They look like a Nextel, an XTS, and a TH79 had a baby together. I haven't been able to put my hands on one (go figure), but they are somewhat different looking. The ones I have seen have a color (XTS type) display on the bottom of the radio with the keypad on the top (where the speaker usually is). I'm working with Chinese Customs IQB Inspection Quarantine Bureau, and hope to at least get a photo of one before I leave. They are in use in Beijing and at all of the airports, border crossings, and ports. More to come; if I make it home in one piece...

JBD

[JRUTA]

Nice looking for the drool factor. projected base price anyone? (seems there are two models, full display/keypad, and top display ony- is this correct?) def looks like a revamped sse5000

[dbusse]

At APCO, the sales staff was saying that it will be about $500 more than a comparably equipped XTS5000. So, it's all going to be driven on the flash options that a user selects.

From a sales standpoint, they say it will save customers money that no longer need two radios flashed with the same option set. I guess that's plausible. Sort of.

Dan

[motorola_otaku]

so is a good majority of houston metro, for the time being anyway...

City of Houston's UHF conventional is on the way out. They have bids in for a 700 P25 system, and we're just waiting for the announcement of a vendor to see whether it's going to be G/AY-COMM or Moto Astro25. My money's on M, since they wrote the RFP to all but exclude everyone else.

If the APX were ever offered in U/7/8, I could see HFD going for some since there's a big block of volunteer departments in northern Harris County that use UHF conventional (and are evangelical about their love of Kenwood and hatred of Motorola) and give and receive mutual aid to/from the city in various areas. Also, Texas DPS uses VHF conventional P25 for their own system but has/have talkgroups on pretty much every county trunk system across the state, so they also present a market.

[High_order1]

"quad band"


Well, if the dual band is two sided.... one of you guys aughta photoshop a four sided radio. Look like a fencepost with antennas poking out of it..... lol


At least they aren't following their legacy business plan. If they did, the data side would be covered by a plate, and they would charge you a grand for the nutdriver to remove it. (and, sue you if you made your own nutdriver....)


-Shawn

[rangerfourever]

look at the new Harris quad band..........buddy with feds has his hands on a couple of demos out west..... and yes it will do TDMA

[alex]

look at the new Harris quad band..........buddy with feds has his hands on a couple of demos out west..... and yes it will do TDMA

You sure? They didn't have anything but a mock up at APCO this year, and they didn't have a production schedule for the things (so my sources say - I wasn't there in person).

Whose TDMA do they do though? No one has a set standard unless someone has some documentation somewhere that says this is what we are following with respect to TDMA trunking. Motorola jumped moving on that direction hoping to show that widespread adoption amoungst customers means that maybe theirs should be the gold standard.

I understand and know that TDMA is also a standard - so you could implement the standard, but I don't know then how you would make it compatible with a closed architecture system.

-Alex

[rangerfourever]

yep his group is part of a Fed demo team for new radios....these are being looked at for Wildland Fire apps.( that is all he could say!) ...... my bad it will be "capable" of TDMA whenever the "standard" becomes an actually standard..... I find it interesting that the Harris has a top alpha screen and front data screen all on the same side of the radio............

[dxon2m]

In case anyone is interested, check out the OET page of FCC, search for AZ489FT7036 to see the actual picture of the APX7000

Looks like there IS a belt clip after all!

[alex]

Looks like there IS a belt clip after all!

Nice to see some "real" pictures of one, although, it's a model I radio. That's probably why it's easy to see the belt clip .

-Alex

[/\/\y 2 cents]

Wow...I don't know what to say. Very unoriginal and big waste of money to make and more of a waste to purchase since soon all cities will have wireless broadband with Voice PTT as one of a gazillion packet-switched services of the wireless broadband network. Your radio will be a program you launch along with Maps, NCIC, 28/29's, like an MDT for your hand that talks. Kind of like how you launch a free-$399 word processor application to type something instead of walking over to your $3000 IBM selectric. This stuff is the selectric of the communications world and is most fossil like even though it has the appearance of being advanced. How much longer can they put frosting on dog poop you ask? As long as our un-sophisticated, feeble minded leaders and administrators keep falling for it time after time - thats how long!

This LMR/SMR stuff is become a farce - more of the same unoriginal thought to quell the unoriginal customers who desire it. Like they say nobody ever got fired for buying Motorola (except for that under the table deal at NYFD where they did the sneaky digital switchover and lost a life.) More "one-off" low bandwidth digital modes designed for one use rather than the ultimate mode - high speed TCP/IP. It just seems to me that the LMR/SMR/ESMR manufacturers can't let go of the fact that they have been cannabalized/converged now by the computer and wireless networking industry. It's like they pride themselves on being complicated and underwhelming. Almost every fixed and portable computer has a 128kbp/s connection or more delivered to it wirelessly. Form factors of computers now look like walkie talkie portables and wireless broadband makes the band you are on a moot point since everybody is resolving a universal IP address.

Give me a ruggedized/big speaker Apple iPhone with Critical RF iWalkie SDR running off of AES encrypted WiFi/private UMTS, LTE or EvDO any day over this joke. Now that is technology.

[tvsjr]

Give me a ruggedized/big speaker Apple iPhone with Critical RF iWalkie SDR running off of AES encrypted WiFi/private UMTS, LTE or EvDO any day over this joke. Now that is technology.

Any chance to pimp your product, eh?

Let me throw some structural gear on you and an airpack, and see how well your iPhone survives 1,000+ degree heat. I've gotten hot enough to melt Moto speaker mics before - think your tripe will hold up? Hell, they can't make the iPhone work as a phone (on 3G, anyway) half the time - but I'm sure you have a magic bullet to fix that too.

[motorola_otaku]

Let me throw some structural gear on you and an airpack, and see how well your iPhone survives 1,000+ degree heat.

Yeah, well, no one really knows how well this kluge is going to survive the rigors of PS use yet either. I'm particularly skeptical of that pretty color display.

[escomm]

Give me a ruggedized/big speaker Apple iPhone with Critical RF iWalkie SDR running off of AES encrypted WiFi/private UMTS, LTE or EvDO any day over this joke. Now that is technology.

At least until you have a natural disaster and all the data networks take a dump. Even Wifi. Your Iphone gonna run simplex?

[/\/\y 2 cents]

My friend,

I said a RUGGED iPhone and these things are on their way to everybody whether you like it or not - firefighter, librarian, or code officer. Femtocells and Picocells will be in every crusier and fire truck trunk just like the old PAC-RT/Vehicular repeaters of our fathers generation.

BTW Glass and metal have a very high melting temperature, certainly higher than hi impact plastic of a speaker mic. Fires are hot regardless, they melt anything in their way, that is just something you signed up for and comes with the job. Please don't make it out to be like this is something that is not expected or you have some special need - you sign up to be a firefighter the possibility is that everything will melt - including you. They arent going to keep giving 90% of the users equipment that is needed by only 10% of the subscribers (firefighting). Majority and money rules unfortunately. You have to look at what makes sense for everybody and do the best you can. Unfortunately when factoring for a 1000 degree fire you will always be S.O.L.

Sooner than later your city, county or state will hand you one of the universal wireles broadbamd terminals, most likely it will be from Symbol (now Motorola). The days of wasteful, outdated radio SYSTEMS (not subscriber units you take into a fire) are over and the IT departments have a hard on for broadband over RF.

And yes, our pimp hand is very, very strong

[/\/\y 2 cents]

"At least until you have a natural disaster and all the data networks take a dump. Even Wifi. Your Iphone gonna run simplex?"

Just plug in a Wifi Base Station on site into your car battery or any power and Woila! Encryption? Already built in. Simplex? Just set up/pre program by alpha name an ad hoc handset to handset network. You just dont plug in the ISP uplink because that will have taken a dump. There is always BGAN for your uplink (everybody doing it!) and you will have a cell for all things communications. The higher you put the antenna, the farther it talks. JUST LIKE GUESS WHAT - A CRUSTY OLD 2-WAY RADIO SYSTEM! Perfect to replace simplex and handles many more conversations simultaneously because you can have "virtual Channels".

I'm not the guy doing this, I'm just the messenger telling you what I see as I touchdown in different places all over our great land - please don't shoot the messenger.

BTW Data networks are the same as voice is you look at the physical science behind them other than modulation schemes. A watt is a watt. - they are just operating in another mode other than FM. P25 is voice over a data network (although a very very crummy one compared to EvDO, LTE, UMTS,WiFi, even GPRS,) It has been proven that the internet and packet data in all of its glorious forms, is much better at handing capacity in an emergency because the cloud is very powerful at switching.

Dont ask me, ask the DoD and DARPA.

[Batwings21]

Yeah we get it. Buy your product, its "sliced bread". Lets all throw out our cold war era Astro, Simulcast, and trunked systems etc. strap on our ruggedized iPhones with your software and go about our merry way till a 12 year old who's bored decides he going to hack into our radio systems and have fun...

I'm sure you are excited about your products, all salesmen are, but give us a break I'm looking at recent posts and half are you pimping your products. I'm sure they are great and have applications but nobody is going to throw out there Mip5000, microwave system etc just cause your excited about your product. At least disclose your pimping your own stuff. No offense.

[escomm]

I said a RUGGED iPhone and these things are on their way to everybody whether you like it or not - firefighter, librarian, or code officer. Femtocells and Picocells will be in every crusier and fire truck trunk just like the old PAC-RT/Vehicular repeaters of our fathers generation.

Did you miss the IAFC report?

[WCHija]

Not to mention the fact that you can't put the "cloud" everywhere. My agency has areas where VHF won't reach back to dispatch. Who wants to trust their life to a remote terminal. How am I going to call for back up when I am on the ground fighting with someone with my terminal or even worse yet my i phone? Ooops the wind shifted direction, the cloud cant see your remote terminal. Try again later. Honestly, as much as it irritates you technically competant people here when I post my dumb questions about programming and such, it irritates me just as much when someone who has never narrowly escaped death wants to replace my XTS5K with a cell phone. I love technology and want more functionality out of my radio, but mostly I just want to talk to another person so I can get some help when I need it or help someone else when they need it. I dont actually NEED to text message someone from my portable, its cool and all but the reality is when it's just you and a suspect you are never supposed to take your eyes off of him, I am not going to use status buttons swipe his dl in my card reader or whatever. I am going to use my hand mic, which is placed so that I can talk and hear without looking away, make a Dispatcher run him and call for another unit if need be. No status, page, or tms buttons when the perp might have a shotgun under his shirt. Plain old grampa style voice.

[resqguy911]

Like they say nobody ever got fired for buying Motorola (except for that under the table deal at NYFD where they did the sneaky digital switchover and lost a life.)

Where is this "NYFD", and who's life was lost? Are we referring to the "FDNY" and a mayday(from someone that is still alive) that went over a repeater that was heard by the rest of the city and didn't get back to the fireground because they didn't tell anyone how repeaters worked before rolling out new radios? Or some other story that doesn't exist? Is it just me or are we miles off topic?

[Victor Xray]

Is it just me or are we miles off topic?

Not just you, it is beyond off original topic

[tvsjr]

Way off topic.