I have a pair of what I beleive are maxtrac 820's, with one system programmed into them. I'd like to do them up to be either a data channel source for trunker or maybe to the fleetwide 'Q' setting i've read about to be like a scanner on my local system. It seems like everything is read-only, I can't change anything about how the thing works. I'm using R05.01.00 rss to view the info. The radio has software version 54.05 in it. What do I need to do to make this work? I've seen some references to TCMS, but i'm not sure what I need to continue what i'm trying to do. Anyone care to hold my hand on this one?
Thanks,
Shawn
Maxtrac trunked reprogramming...help!
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Maxtrac trunked reprogramming...help!
Look, it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
Ok, so doing the fleetwide 'q' trick is only going to work with the system key and/or the lab RSS then? What about this TCMS stuff i'm seeing? I guess I have a pair of bricks sitting here?
Hell i'd at least use the HLN9313 in my Radius mobile to get the signalling options and 16 accy. connector but I guess I need lab rss to blank it first too?
Anyone done one of these radios for use with trunker want to tell me exactly how they did it and what tools they used to do it?
Hell i'd at least use the HLN9313 in my Radius mobile to get the signalling options and 16 accy. connector but I guess I need lab rss to blank it first too?
Anyone done one of these radios for use with trunker want to tell me exactly how they did it and what tools they used to do it?
Look, it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
I'm a little confused about what you want to do.
If all you want to do is come up with a signal that can be used to feed the "Trunker" freeware program, you will need a radio that has been internally modified to give you what is called "discriminator output," i.e., completely unprocessed audio from the FM product detector. The web pages are filled with how to modify inexpensive consumer-grade scanners to do this; I wouldn't try to make board-level mods to a good two-way for this purpose.
There are some mobile radios that provide discriminator output on a pin on the backplane; they are designed to be used with repeater controllers (which need this signal for PL or DPL decoding). I don't know without going downstairs and looking it up (after spending whatever it takes to find the books) whether the MaxTrac is among them. If you have such a mobile, you can take discriminator output to feed Trunker without any mods; all you have to do is program the radio Rx only for the control channel of the system you want to track.
If you want to make a scanner that will simply scan though the voice channels in use by a trunked radio system, which will enable you to hear the audio but not necessarily to follow the channel changes of a system programmed for "PTT Trunking" (which tends to change frequencies in the middle of a back-and-forth between units), you don't need a system key or TCMS because you're just programming conventional receive channels. (It has been a while since I've done a MaxTrac so I don't remember how many channels it will scan and how well it does conventional 800.)
A TCMS file is a file that is prepared for a semi-self-maintainer; it dictates the SysID and certain other parameters for a given system, and can be used by the users to program additional mobiles and portables, but does not allow him to program other people's trunked systems. TCMS files are provided to the user by his MSS.
If all you want to do is come up with a signal that can be used to feed the "Trunker" freeware program, you will need a radio that has been internally modified to give you what is called "discriminator output," i.e., completely unprocessed audio from the FM product detector. The web pages are filled with how to modify inexpensive consumer-grade scanners to do this; I wouldn't try to make board-level mods to a good two-way for this purpose.
There are some mobile radios that provide discriminator output on a pin on the backplane; they are designed to be used with repeater controllers (which need this signal for PL or DPL decoding). I don't know without going downstairs and looking it up (after spending whatever it takes to find the books) whether the MaxTrac is among them. If you have such a mobile, you can take discriminator output to feed Trunker without any mods; all you have to do is program the radio Rx only for the control channel of the system you want to track.
If you want to make a scanner that will simply scan though the voice channels in use by a trunked radio system, which will enable you to hear the audio but not necessarily to follow the channel changes of a system programmed for "PTT Trunking" (which tends to change frequencies in the middle of a back-and-forth between units), you don't need a system key or TCMS because you're just programming conventional receive channels. (It has been a while since I've done a MaxTrac so I don't remember how many channels it will scan and how well it does conventional 800.)
A TCMS file is a file that is prepared for a semi-self-maintainer; it dictates the SysID and certain other parameters for a given system, and can be used by the users to program additional mobiles and portables, but does not allow him to program other people's trunked systems. TCMS files are provided to the user by his MSS.
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wazzzzzzzzup
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 751
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS3000/astro spectra/
heres some info i have read about...
the TCMS info you are seeing is a file system motorola used to give dealers trunked programming information for one radio. motorola didnot want to give dealers the KEY to program unlimited info into the radio.
you may be able to delete the system info but woul would not be able to bring it back unless you have a system key or lab.
as others here have mentioned, LAB allows you to change trunked system options and many other special features like change model numbers to give your radio more features or systems.
the fleetwide Q setting you are refering to, is a bit trickier to explain.
the "Q" is actually a huge configuration of a system, it is set up in such a way that would give a small 5-10 channel system a total of 15 subfleets
but the number of unit ids available to the "Q" fleet is in the thousands and thousands
the "Q" to my knowlege is never used in a public business system because there would only be 15 subfleets for 15 business to use.
it would make a bit more sense to use "Q" on a small public safety system
where they could benifit from 15 subfleets over say 5 voice channels.
the fleetwide setting on a type 1 systems fleet, is called sub 0 (zero) or in mtx 8000 radis it is called FLT or FL in the subfleet selection screen.
if you have an "a" sizecode fleet, you have 3 subfleets to listen to by listening to fleetwide
if you have a B,C,D,F size code you would have 7 subfleets to listen to on each fleet by listening to fleetwide
the "Q" is a configuration of a type 1 system.
most public safety systems are type 2 now. and your radio is mostlikely not type 2.
if you have a type 2 radio you would call fleetwide "ATG" or anouncement talk group which i think is set up and configured by the system. somewhere i have heard that certain ATG channels automatically work for 2 talkgroups or up to 13 talkgroups, i can only come to the conclusion that when the system is configured that is setup in the system. and an example would be..........listening to system designated ATG 3A2 will open for 3A3,3A4,3A5 and you might see a
ATG of 4B1 is to open for 4B2 and 4B3 only.
those numbers are random examples.
hope that helps.
the TCMS info you are seeing is a file system motorola used to give dealers trunked programming information for one radio. motorola didnot want to give dealers the KEY to program unlimited info into the radio.
you may be able to delete the system info but woul would not be able to bring it back unless you have a system key or lab.
as others here have mentioned, LAB allows you to change trunked system options and many other special features like change model numbers to give your radio more features or systems.
the fleetwide Q setting you are refering to, is a bit trickier to explain.
the "Q" is actually a huge configuration of a system, it is set up in such a way that would give a small 5-10 channel system a total of 15 subfleets
but the number of unit ids available to the "Q" fleet is in the thousands and thousands
the "Q" to my knowlege is never used in a public business system because there would only be 15 subfleets for 15 business to use.
it would make a bit more sense to use "Q" on a small public safety system
where they could benifit from 15 subfleets over say 5 voice channels.
the fleetwide setting on a type 1 systems fleet, is called sub 0 (zero) or in mtx 8000 radis it is called FLT or FL in the subfleet selection screen.
if you have an "a" sizecode fleet, you have 3 subfleets to listen to by listening to fleetwide
if you have a B,C,D,F size code you would have 7 subfleets to listen to on each fleet by listening to fleetwide
the "Q" is a configuration of a type 1 system.
most public safety systems are type 2 now. and your radio is mostlikely not type 2.
if you have a type 2 radio you would call fleetwide "ATG" or anouncement talk group which i think is set up and configured by the system. somewhere i have heard that certain ATG channels automatically work for 2 talkgroups or up to 13 talkgroups, i can only come to the conclusion that when the system is configured that is setup in the system. and an example would be..........listening to system designated ATG 3A2 will open for 3A3,3A4,3A5 and you might see a
ATG of 4B1 is to open for 4B2 and 4B3 only.
those numbers are random examples.
hope that helps.
If you are just wanting to use the radios as "trunker" recievers, you can pull the "trunking" prom, put in a conventional prom, BLANK the board with conventional LAB, and program your channels. I have done a few of these for that exact use. You will need a conventional PROM and Conventional LAB. Or someone that has both. They make great receivers for this. Or if there is a conventional "tactical" simplex channel or ITAC or ICALL in the area, they work well for that also.
The last few posts have been somewhat helpful, thanks. What I have is two Maxtrac 820 radios, one of which i'd like to make a 'scanner' of sorts and I read either here or on Lindsay's site that you could use the fleetwide Q setting to make a type 1 radio act as a scanner and receive all talkgroups on a type 2 system. If that's not going to work then I want to set it up as my data channel radio with trunker. I'm already doing this with my pro2006 but I want to get the opto board for it and use it for something other than an expensive 1 channel radio like it is now. I understand that i can mod many scanners for discriminator output...but these maxtracs were 15 bucks...i'm not going to find a good scanner for that kind of money with this kind of quality.
If all else fails i'd like to recover my 30 bucks and use these hln9313b logic boards in a radius m100 ihae to upgrade it and then set a friend up with one for his maxtrac 300 vhf-hi he's got.
I hope this explains a little better what I was trying to do.
If all else fails i'd like to recover my 30 bucks and use these hln9313b logic boards in a radius m100 ihae to upgrade it and then set a friend up with one for his maxtrac 300 vhf-hi he's got.
I hope this explains a little better what I was trying to do.
Last edited by redbeard on Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Look, it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
PETNRDX: any idea the part number for that PROM or where i can get an image of it? I know someone with an eprom burner. Does the prom have to be a certain one? Someone on ebay is selling a prom that is supposed to be the latest version that does pretty much everything...i wonder if a conventional prom from a vhf maxtrac would work or is it specific to the band of radio? if i can copy the prom from any conventional and use it that would be great...otherwise i may have to win that ebay auction.
Here's the auction i'm talking about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 20832&rd=1
Here's the auction i'm talking about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 20832&rd=1
Look, it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
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central150
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Too many..
Central150:
Not that i've noticed, but unless there is a different version the Maxtrac Lab RSS you can't change anything except radio wide options with it. I think it's usefulness is only for blanking the logic board, as I think the re-initialization can be done with the normal RSS.
Shawn
Not that i've noticed, but unless there is a different version the Maxtrac Lab RSS you can't change anything except radio wide options with it. I think it's usefulness is only for blanking the logic board, as I think the re-initialization can be done with the normal RSS.
Shawn
Look, it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
maxtrac
I've used those for monitoring with "trunker" software.
You need to program the data channel as a conventional channel.
You may be able to add one with it like it is.
Try adding a conventional channel.
If you have a 16 pin logic board connector, you can feed a
demodulator for trunker directly from that connector from the
audio out there.
Most of the 820's can do both conventional and trunking.
Moto Nono
You need to program the data channel as a conventional channel.
You may be able to add one with it like it is.
Try adding a conventional channel.
If you have a 16 pin logic board connector, you can feed a
demodulator for trunker directly from that connector from the
audio out there.
Most of the 820's can do both conventional and trunking.
Moto Nono
i tried adding a conventional channel and it wouldn't let me. everything that i've seen says it has no conventional modes. even tried re-initializing as a maxtrac 840 or other model to see what would happen. I guess what I need now is a conventional PROM for it. Wish I could find an image since I have access to an EPROM burner. I have a friend with a VHF model with the 16 pin accy. connector...can I copy his EPROM and have it work? Providing of course I initialize it as the right model I need?
Look, it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
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central150
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Too many..
"Well, my LAB RSS works on my conventional Maxtracs, but not my Trunked Maxtracs..."
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Conventional LAB will blank your board. Just go directly to F2 Service. Don't try to read the radio first. After you blank the board, change the firmware to conventional. Then you need to initialize the radio and put it through a complete alignment.
To answer your earlier question - is there a trunked Maxtrac LAB?
Well, there is probably a LAB for everything - they just aren't supposed to get out (of the LAB that is), but some do. In this case, there is reported to be such an animal running around out there. He goes by the name Version D04.10.00 24 Aug-90. He's an old timer and isn't at all happy in a 486 environment. However, he is perfectly happy living in a 386 somewhere behind the former iron curtain.
According to Motorola official RSS standards of that time (1990 ish) - a "D" RSS is in development and should never have left the product group. How this one ended up hanging around Moscow is anybody's guess.
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Conventional LAB will blank your board. Just go directly to F2 Service. Don't try to read the radio first. After you blank the board, change the firmware to conventional. Then you need to initialize the radio and put it through a complete alignment.
To answer your earlier question - is there a trunked Maxtrac LAB?
Well, there is probably a LAB for everything - they just aren't supposed to get out (of the LAB that is), but some do. In this case, there is reported to be such an animal running around out there. He goes by the name Version D04.10.00 24 Aug-90. He's an old timer and isn't at all happy in a 486 environment. However, he is perfectly happy living in a 386 somewhere behind the former iron curtain.
According to Motorola official RSS standards of that time (1990 ish) - a "D" RSS is in development and should never have left the product group. How this one ended up hanging around Moscow is anybody's guess.