Batboard

alex wrote:There will be no more discussion about cowtheif in this thread. Thanks.

If you want the ranks to follow this, you better gag him. It's just too darn easy.........see above post as proof.

Well, the 1st of March has come and gone.

Anybody get their doors kicked in and led off in handcuffs yet for possession of a Nick radio?

Jeff

Not as of yet, but then again, nobody has sent me their "Nick" radio either..... damn it.

SG

Has anyone have any new infomation about this motorola issue?

Here is the latest news. This isn't supposed to be official for a couple of weeks.

It seems that one of the big issues Motorola was going to pursue was fraud. The radios that Nick built had to be initialized. That is supposed to let you put your existing radio's serial number into a replacement controller - but what to do for a parts built radio?

Supposedly Nick picked serial numbers out of thin air, but in an attempt to make them look legit, he picked numbers that follow the Motorola format, but had not actually been built yet [pre-dated so to speak]

Nick probably thought that this was safe as it avoided duplication of EXISTING radios - but - eventually Motorola would have manufactured radios with numbers that duplicated the ones Nick chose - PLUS - here is the big issue - these bogus numbers would imply extended WARRANTY coverage to which the radios are not entitled since Motorola didn't build them - hence the fraud aspect [in addition to the public safety / performance issue mentioned in the Motorola letters].

Apparently Nick has been secretly contacting the buyers of these radios and arranging to resolve these issues. For a nominal fee [cash] Nick has the radio's picked up by private courier [no tracking numbers] and transported to a service facility in Albuquerque where an FCC licensed technician opens each one and confirms that is is assembled of genuine Motorola manufactured parts in accordance with Motorola's published support documentation.

After removing any unnecessary parts labels [production codes, etc.] and flushing any contaminants [finger oils] with suitable solvent, plus a judicious scrambling of parts between multiple radios - the units are reassembled. A new serial number [of the owners choice] is then loaded - typically a phone number - or a girlfriend's name - anything that does not imply warranty coverage.

Each radio is then bench tested on a General Dynamics Autotest system and a certificate of performance compliance printed. The theory here is that to invalidate that certificate Motorola would have to invalidate the entire General Dynamics Autotest system [which wouldn't go over well with an important business partner].

The radios and documentation are then returned to the owner - again by private courier. After being transported in this manner, it's probably a good idea for the owners to clean the radio very thoroughly when they receive it back - especially if they are going to take it anywhere that there might be drug dogs around.

The hope is that word of this operation won't get back to Motorola until all of the radios have been - ah - 'sanitized' or at least not until the first of next month...

xmo wrote: The hope is that word of this operation won't get back to Motorola until all of the radios have been - ah - 'sanitized' or at least not until the first of next month...

Too late for that I guess.

xmo,

Your post is interesting, but how and where did you get all that info, if you don't mind my asking ?

Nick has not contacted me. I would be awfully reluctant to trust him.

I thought I read that Nick's serial #'s were in a 123ABC1234 format? You telling me that's Motorola's latest serial system? Something ain't right. I suggest to you guys to only post any actual factual info.. like Motorola came knocking on your door yesterday. Otherwise, you could be giving them ideas.

Splat wrote:I thought I read that Nick's serial #'s were in a 123ABC1234 format? You telling me that's Motorola's latest serial system? Something ain't right. I suggest to you guys to only post any actual factual info.. like Motorola came knocking on your door yesterday. Otherwise, you could be giving them ideas.

Yes, Nick's radios came with serial numbers that were of the format: 3 Numbers 3 Letters 4 Numbers. None of them had the generic serial of 123ABC1234 that these xts5000's all come with. They are a whole other issue all together.

Mike

"I thought I read that Nick's serial #'s were in a 123ABC1234 format? You telling me that's Motorola's latest serial system?..."
_________________________________________________________

Yes that is Motorola's system - three numbers followed by three letters followed by four numbers. The first three numbers are the radio specific APC [product code]. The three numbers contain the year and month of manufacture for warranty purposes. The last four numbers are a sequential 'serial' number.

This format has been followed for many years and is explained in one of the Batlabs links. Some people connect Nick with the literal serial number 123ABC1234 which is an entirely different issue - related to the XTS5000 radios - the plant fire - panter88 and so on.

Ask anybody who bought a radio from Nick and they will tell you their radio has a legit appearing serial number - that's the whole POINT here. How can you tell if your radio was built by Motorola, recased, refurbished, or parts built???? You CAN NOT TELL. Motorola thinks they can.

There is a lot more to this Nick story than has gotten out so far. Did you know that Nick is actually a member of the famous [infamous?] "South side" DeLuca family? A lot of people don't know that. It's also not common knowledge that Nick's mother's cousin [third removed] was actually Frank Nitti's daughter. Fact.

The story is that Nick was pretty much doing his radio thing on his own until he stepped in it [so to speak] with Motorola. Now that made it 'family' business and got others involved - principally Nick's uncle Tony DeLuca [AKA "Terrible Tony" AKA "Tony the Enforcer"]

Tony is the one who has - ah - connections around the Country and Tony is the one who is behind the plan to pick up all the radios and sanitize them. Anyway, if a guy named Frankie comes to your door [and you haven't ordered a pizza] and he asks for your radio and a couple Ben Franks for processing - I sure wouldn't say no...

Now remember I said this story is intended for release the first of next month - AND - remember this is March ----- ---- [do you need Vanna to turn over the letters?]

Man, I thought Cowthief had hijacked XMO's account until I realized what the first day of next month is...

Todd

LOL! Gotcha. I, like pro'lly most others, missed that.

xmo wrote: Anyway, if a guy named Frankie comes to your door [and you haven't ordered a pizza] and he asks for your radio and a couple Ben Franks for processing - I sure wouldn't say no...

LMAO.... This is too much! Somehow I get the feeling that "Atlanta Manhunt" won't be the only television mini-series released this summer.


Now that was a GOOD ONE!

Tim

"...I get the feeling that "Atlanta Manhunt" won't be the only television mini-series released this summer. .."
____________________________________________________________

Now there you go. Actually, I left out a lot of important details.

You may recall there have been a lot of accusations about 'stolen property' . Well, I think it's pretty obvious that Nick didn't just back a van up to the parts department and have a group of guys walk in in ski masks with automatic weapons to demand a load of XTS parts.

You may also recall that Nick said he didn't come up with this parts built radio idea himself. Indeed, he did not. It was actually a Motorola employee's idea. It seems one of the guys in the plant - who happens to work on the line - got into a little problem with Nick's uncle Tony - a gambling debt [a pretty big one it seems]

He couldn't cover it so he comes up with this idea of how much money Nick can make building radios. Now - the actual parts cost of the stuff to make an XTS is more than Nick wanted to sell them for - so here's the tricky part. It's the controller that's the big cost and that's where the Motorola guy comes in. He says he can get as many of those as Nick wants to work off his debt.

The only tricky thing is getting these parts out of the plant. They do have pretty good security in place. Well, of course Tony has a lot of connections. Here's what we think happened. Tony leaned on some folks that have the food service contract at the Mototrola plant cafeteria. Now you know they bring precooked food in every day - but of course security searches everything that leaves the plant.

Here's the deal - you know that roast turkey they have for lunch on Thursdays? Well, the food service folks bring that in in roaster pans. Special pans with a false bottom. So the flashport guy gleeps several controllers and saunters down to lunch [you can carry stuff all over inside the plant - you just get searched on the way out]

He has a drop in the cafeteria where Nick's lacky in the food service staff picks them up and slips them into the false bottom roaster. Pretty slick.

Of course there may be some trace elements of roast turkey get deposited on these controller boards - so that's the real reason why Motorola wants the radios back. Once the Motorola forensic specialists get the evidence - the case angianst the DeLuca family will be complete.

Now, as far as the intimidating tone of the letters from Mr. harrington - that's important too - the team has to get this case wrapped up pretty quick because they have sold the rights to the story to CBS and they are ready to get started filming the story as one of the first episodes of this fall's new hit series "CSI Chicago"

xmo wrote:...the team has to get this case wrapped up pretty quick because they have sold the rights to the story to CBS and they are ready to get started filming the story as one of the first episodes of this fall's new hit series "CSI Chicago"

No doubt starring a gay teacher.

Maybe not in this episode but CBS does certainly have a trend in that direction - particularly in the show "Cold Case".

This must be a joke ??? Sounds out in left field to me

I admit. I got hooked-lined-and-sinkered at first.

Paul Galvin must be rolling in his grave.

xmo wrote: Of course there may be some trace elements of roast turkey get deposited on these controller boards - so that's the real reason why Motorola wants the radios back. Once the Motorola forensic specialists get the evidence - the case angianst the DeLuca family will be complete.

"So in essence Ms Lewinsky, you're telling us that the stain on your dress is actually white turkey gravey?"

Jeff

*chuckles* Thanks, xmo. I haven't seen anything that funny around here, since the whole 60Hz non-standard PL on a repeater.

I'm amazed that this thread isn't locked.

If you don't look too closely, you could almost swear that you were in the old BatLounge

I came across this while looking at one of my favorite webpages. Just thought the group mind find this person's response interesting.

Name: --

--

February 12, 2005

Patrick L. Harrington
Motorola, Inc.
Government and Enterprise Mobility Solutions
1301 E. Algonquin Road
Schaumburg, IL 60196

VIA CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

RE: Letter ID --, Motorola, Inc. v. Nicholas DeLuca, et al

Dear Mr. Harrington,

I am in receipt of your letter dated January 31, 2005, regarding Motorola Inc. vs. Nicholas DeLuca, et al. As a matter of courtesy, I hereby acknowledge that I did purchase a Motorola Astro XTS3000 UHF radio via the eBay online auction site sometime in mid-2002. Whether or not the seller was Mr. DeLuca, I can assure Motorola that I sold the radio approximately two years ago and I have no idea where it is now.

For the record: (1) my purchase was made in good faith; (2) I sold the unit in good faith for cash to an unnamed buyer at a local ham radio swap meet; (3) at no time before receiving your letter did I have reason to know or suspect that the radio I bought on eBay was or might have been counterfeit; and (4) at no time did the seller express to me in writing or verbally that the unit was anything other than a legitimate Motorola product.

Also for the record, I must object to the substance of your January 31, 2005 letter. Your letter makes a series of demands upon me and threatens future legal action against me without stating a legal basis for either. You fail to state any legal statute, any case law, any administrative code, and any theory of civil liability that Motorola may legitimately assert against me for failing to heed the unjustifiable demands in your letter. The only factual allegation related to me in your letter is that records exist indicating that I purchased a Motorola branded radio from Mr. DeLuca, and that radio MAY have been counterfeit. On this basis alone, Motorola has the temerity to order me to take specific actions, show cause why I should not have to do so, or face some unnamed “legal steps”.

Let me make this simple: Motorola isn’t the District Court of anything. I purchased a Motorola branded product in a good faith belief that it was legitimate merchandise. Regardless of whether the radio in question was counterfeit or legitimate, I have not had possession of that item in approximately two years. Thus, as far as I can tell, Motorola lacks the power to demand anything from me, or to threaten any legal action against me, civil or otherwise.

Accordingly, absent established legal authority to contrary, I reject Motorola’s baseless assertion that it is somehow my responsibility to determine the whereabouts of the Motorola Astro I bought on eBay in 2002, to explain anything to anyone, or take any steps whatsoever to have that radio shipped back to Motorola.

I must say, your letter is all the more offensive in that I am an innocent purchaser of a Motorola branded product through a major distribution channel. Instead of sending out an authoritative and demanding letter threatening legal action, how about letter from a company concerned that the branded product I purchased in good faith could apparently be dangerous to myself or others, and kindly offering to swap out the bad unit for a legitimate unit, or at a minimum offering to provide a generous bounty for turning over a dangerous and counterfeit product with your name brand on it.

In this circumstance, it is apparently fortunate that I no longer own the Motorola Astro in question, as the only thing I am losing is my time to respond to your letter. But given your demands and threats of legal actions, maybe it would be best to never purchase another Motorola product of any kind ever again. That way I won’t have to worry about receiving a counterfeit Motorola product and getting another letter demanding that I forfeit that product for which I paid good money. Now that I think about it, in my capacity as an IT and communications professional, I am responsible for making purchasing decisions about vast quantities of mobile phones, two-way radios, and other various products produced by Motorola and its competitors. Maybe it would be best for me to pass on a copy of your letter to all my colleagues around the country to reconsider purchasing Motorola products to ensure they avoid receiving a letter just like this. In fact, as I bought this item on eBay, it might be best to post your letter on all the eBay forums as well.

As you were so kind as to give me a date to respond to your letter, I will give you until March 15, 2005 to send me a written reply telling me if Motorola would prefer to respect loyal customers like me -- who did nothing wrong other than purchase what we considered to be legitimate Motorola products, or treat us with oppressive demands, threats of forfeiture of valuable goods, and legal action.

I look forward to your timely reply.

Sincerely,


--

Well done, I couldn’t of said it better!!!!

Dan...

I've been watching this amusing spectacle as a lurker.

Some of you are sure "sh*t house lawyers".

If any of you even think Motorola's IP arm operates without the
advice & consent of their legal dept, you're smoking crack.

The letters are merely to go before a judge and demonstrate a
good faith effort was expended in resolving the concerns Motorola
has. They are entitled to protect their "product branding" (and any
counterfeit equipment with bogus serial numbers damages them &
potentially the legitimate end user).

Motorola has not surrendered *ANY* of it's rights to it's IP (in the
form of CPS, system keys, DSP host code, etc). The manuals for
them clearly state so (and that reverse engineering is prohibited).

The agreement pertains to IP, not physical posession of controller
boards, etc. If you are in posession of firmware that you did not pay
for (to Motorola), the company is technically within it's rights to go
after their stolen property.

Ever hear of "posession of stolen goods" ?

Granted it would be futile to waste legal resources on some schmoe
with a hacked Astro Spectra, however some of the cretins here have
done a pretty good job of painting a come-get-me bullseye on their
backs.

(a). IP rights
(b). Motorola reputation at stake (being damaged by counterfeit
radios).

Wanna joke about midnight raids and doors being knocked down ?

Keep it up - just remember, RIAA had US Marshalls, US Customs, &
RIAA representatives knocking down the doors of teenage MP3 pirates.
What do you think they're going to do to some miscreant radio geek
messing around with an encrypted P-25 SmartZone radio on the local
county public safety system ?

There are numerous issues involved here, and Motorola legal & IP is
playing it by the book to get an outcome favorable to them. Some of
you will be made examples of that we'll be hearing about.

So keep on digging.

Salem The Cat wrote:

Oh my....

Jeff

Salem-I was wondering what happened to you. Been a while.

Tony

a little off topic but what if it was parts with out serial #'s like antennas, and batteries......and they were purchased and on the up and up overseas...?

Tony Soprano wrote:Salem-I was wondering what happened to you. Been a while.

Tony

just busy workin', you know how that goes.

thanks for noticing

To all of you that have received the imfamous "letter 'o doom" regarding the Nick radios.

It's not worth the paper it's printed on.

Jeff

stay-con wrote:When I get clearance from counsel to post it, I will give you the "Direct from Mr. Harrington" definition of what is and isn't counterfeit.

Care to tell?

Dan...

Salem The Cat wrote: Wanna joke about midnight raids and doors being knocked down ?

Keep it up - just remember, RIAA had US Marshalls, US Customs, &
RIAA representatives knocking down the doors of teenage MP3 pirates.
What do you think they're going to do to some miscreant radio geek
messing around with an encrypted P-25 SmartZone radio on the local
county public safety system ?

Are you suggesting Motorola is willing to spend the time and money to send lawyers to every city & town where there is a 'Nick' radio, get search warrants, and bust down everyone's door?

Most posters say don't even bother with the letter. Are you saying you believe people should turn over their 'Nick' radios to Motorola?

ScannerDan wrote:

stay-con wrote:When I get clearance from counsel to post it, I will give you the "Direct from Mr. Harrington" definition of what is and isn't counterfeit.

Care to tell?

Dan...

Well, I can give you a few hints at least.

Repairing a used radio is a legitimate process.

A legitimate serial number is needed. Having the matching tag on the chassis is desirable, but conceivably not a requirement.

Not having all brand new cards. However, again, it's still conceivable that they all required replacing.

Modifications are ok. I.e., converting a VHF radio to UHF. After all, it's just the RF board right?

The default "whore" flash code is probably ok too, as Motorola sends out boards with that on them. Then you can up(down)grade to what you really need.

Probably what would really be wrong though, is the combination of all the above together in varying degrees. Especially with a faked serial number.

Jeff

stay-con wrote:
Well, I can give you a few hints at least.

Repairing a used radio is a legitimate process.

A legitimate serial number is needed. Having the matching tag on the chassis is desirable, but conceivably not a requirement.

Not having all brand new cards. However, again, it's still conceivable that they all required replacing.

Modifications are ok. I.e., converting a VHF radio to UHF. After all, it's just the RF board right?

The default "whore" flash code is probably ok too, as Motorola sends out boards with that on them. Then you can up(down)grade to what you really need.

Probably what would really be wrong though, is the combination of all the above together in varying degrees. Especially with a faked serial number.

Jeff

What about modifications that would have obviously required some sort of propriatary software such as converting a model I to a model III?

Mike

Fuel4300 wrote: What about modifications that would have obviously required some sort of propriatary software such as converting a model I to a model III?
Mike

If you're talking about using something like "Lab Software" which is supposed to be unobtainable, yeah, that would definately raise a few eyebrows.

Jeff

stay-con wrote:

ScannerDan wrote:

stay-con wrote:When I get clearance from counsel to post it, I will give you the "Direct from Mr. Harrington" definition of what is and isn't counterfeit.

Care to tell?

Dan...

Well, I can give you a few hints at least.

Repairing a used radio is a legitimate process.

A legitimate serial number is needed. Having the matching tag on the chassis is desirable, but conceivably not a requirement.

Not having all brand new cards. However, again, it's still conceivable that they all required replacing.

Modifications are ok. I.e., converting a VHF radio to UHF. After all, it's just the RF board right?

The default "whore" flash code is probably ok too, as Motorola sends out boards with that on them. Then you can up(down)grade to what you really need.

Probably what would really be wrong though, is the combination of all the above together in varying degrees. Especially with a faked serial number.

Jeff

This is all stuff that we all already know, or at least most of should know.

Frank

10-95 wrote: This is all stuff that we all already know, or at least most of should know.
Frank

Yeah, that's true. But now it's "official." No more arm chair lawyering.

Jeff

uhhh..

The default "whore" flash code is probably ok too, as Motorola sends out boards with that on them. Then you can up(down)grade to what you really need.

Probably what would really be wrong though, is the combination of all the above together in varying degrees. Especially with a faked serial number.

no more arm chair lawyering

kinda hard to say that when you use words like "probably" and "varying degrees"

grem467 wrote:uhhh..

Stay Con wrote: no more arm chair lawyering

kinda hard to say that when you use words like "probably" and "varying degrees"

I suppose nobody is going to be happy until I post all 400+ pages of the deposition taken from Mr. Harrington a few weeks ago.

Unlike a majority of the posters here, I am not guessing. I know what is going on because I'm right in the middle of it. And as I mentioned previously, since it is still pending in court, there's a limit to what I can and can not say.

Suffice to say, my earlier posting as to what is and what is not counterfeit is accurate.

Jeff

Hello.

I had the US DoJ look into this.
Motorola is in a situation that is not too good for them.
I, as you may recall, did not use any of the firmware of the Nick radios.
NO issues with IP.
NO issues with ESNs.
NO issues with any section of 47CFR whatsoever.
I inked an agreement that is now invalid.
So, yes, Motorola could go to court, but It will not be an easy case with me, as I will, as the saying goes, tell the,,,,.
Motorola may want to look at this case again.

Moving right along....

The depositions are almost all finished.

Also

sombody wrote: Just out of curiousity, what is Mr. Harrington planning now?

He's been maintaining a pretty low profile for the last month. Up until recently, he's had his face in everything.

Jeff
[/quote]

stay-con wrote:Moving right along....

The depositions are almost all finished.

Also

sombody wrote: Just out of curiousity, what is Mr. Harrington planning now?

He's been maintaining a pretty low profile for the last month. Up until recently, he's had his face in everything.

Jeff

[/quote]

So how do you know all this ? Who are you and how'd you get to be all on the inside ? What are these depositions about ? Which court are they taking place at ? What's gonna happen when all the depositions are finished ?

Any New info on this subject about motorola Recalling Nick's Radio's?

Are we still beating this dead horse?

I'd like to know what happened to the missing post that is missing???

RESCUE161 wrote:I'd like to know what happened to the missing post that is missing???

That was mine. I was advised to remove it.
(Not by the moderators or anyone here.)

Jeff

stay-con wrote:

RESCUE161 wrote:I'd like to know what happened to the missing post that is missing???

That was mine. I was advised to remove it.
(Not by the moderators or anyone here.)

Jeff

Okay, what's the deal? You've been vague since day 1.

All I wanna know is what's gonna happen to the people who choose not to respond to Motorola's letter??

Johnny Galaga wrote: Okay, what's the deal? You've been vague since day 1.

Unfortunately, that's due to being in the middle of legal pissing contest with Motorola right now. As I mentioned previously, the case goes to trial in July.

All I wanna know is what's gonna happen to the people who choose not to respond to Motorola's letter??

I can't speak for Motorola. I'm just some poor schmuck that got sucked into the vortex with the issue of "counterfeit" radios. Being as how the 1st of March came and went, my guess is nothing.

Jeff

So it's April 8, 2005 and I was wondering if anyone has heared anything from Mr. Harrington, et al ?

Dan..

to hell w/ all the geeky radio banter....I could care less about Nick or these radios that you all seem to get a woodie over.... what I really want to know................................sta-con, what is the "source" of that pic (avatar)..... that cracks me up, no many how many times I see it....was that from some old ad, or safety campaign or a pic you made...I was told as a kid I stuck a paper clip in the wall socket at the dentist's office and got the desired result.....