Batboard

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:34 pm**

I took no action and I haven't heard from Motorola since the original letter of death.

A conservative is someone who is so closed minded that they're trying to hide the fact that they have no brain.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:12 pm**

Keep this thread on topic...just because you (JG) don't agree with the previous poster's signature, doesn't mean you have to counter it in your post.

I for one am intriqued by this topic, and would love to hear what happened to the parties listed in the case.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:37 pm**

Ya I totally disregarded the Motorola letter also, but I was wondering what happened to the ones who did send their radios into Motorola. I'm wondering if they were properly compensated.

Dan..

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:15 pm**

"...I'm wondering if they were properly compensated. ..."
_______________________________________________

Thanks!

A real good laugh was just what I needed!

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:39 pm**

Im wondering how hard Moto reamed them by taking their radios and not giving anything back in return..

doesnt that amount to theft or fraud?

"Hey that radio is dangerous, you had better give it to me"

Hm....

I think ill kill this train of thought before I become cowthief LOL

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:28 pm**

MattSR wrote:Im wondering how hard Moto reamed them by taking their radios and not giving anything back in return..

doesnt that amount to theft or fraud?

"Hey that radio is dangerous, you had better give it to me"

Hm....

I think ill kill this train of thought before I become cowthief LOL

In the State of Georgia, the criminal charge would either be theft by taking or theft by deception. Since the dollar amount is over 500, the crime would constitute a felony.

Problem is proving the intent. For the deception charge, you'd be hard press to convince a jury that they defrauded you if you VOLUNTARILY sent in a radio. That would be no different than you handing your property over to a stranger merely because they asked for it.

If Motorola made threats, that's a different story. however, Pat and friends aren't that stupid to send out USPS certified mail letters (which could and would be used against them in any legal proceeding) if they didn't cross their t's and dot their i's.

As is common knowledge, if you send something to someone so long as you didn't defraud them in the process, it's yours to keep.

To those who did send their radios to Pat's circus, chalk it up to the game as a lesson learned. If there were any violations of law, real LEO's would be at your door with a warrant. Everything else is hot air blowing from the bowels of Schaumberg, IL USA.

Posted: **Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:20 am**

I tend to agree with the posters concerning fraudulent acts, and the fact that Circle-M did send out letters stating 'legal' action against those that do not send their radios back, and the very wording of that does indeed constitute theft by threat of suit.

Circle-M had no basis for a case, with no legal grounds with which to base a suit upon, but sent letters regardless.

Those that did send radios to Circle-M felt 'justly threatened' to follow the demands stated in those letters, which would probably constitute a threat however real or imagined in the eyes of the recipient/s.

We all know Circle-M has had a superiority complex when it comes to their products, and this attitude has also spilled over into and onto other areas of concern, such as Ebay sales where they have illegally blocked private property sales of personal property, which amounts to interfering with legitimate business and trade as well as federal trade laws as Circle-M has blocked such sales across state lines which constitutes a federal crime 'potential' as well as a state matter since they have interfered with legitimate trade transactions without benefit of any court orders to back up their actions.

This is strong arm tactics and can not be justified legally in any court proceeding, Motorola went ahead and used this to force compliance with their wishes to get what they wanted, and I suspect this is nothing less than coersion.

If their letters had indeed mentioned legal proceedings against these recipients if they did not return the radios, this letter can be used against motorola to show proof of intent to defraud by deception and can be used against them in theft charges if brought to court.

Circle-M knows almost all the people they sent these letters to and demanded the radios from, would do nothing, so by inaction, they got what they wanted at no cost to them aside from postage costs......pretty good way to steal, wouldn't you agree?

Posted: **Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:17 am**

Sorry guys, if you are in possession of a Nick radio (with the whored flash code) then you are in fact in violation of Motorola's intellectual property. You have software that you did not pay for and are not licensed to possess. It's no different than buying a computer off ebay with a pirated copy of Windows pre-loaded. The radio itself is fine, but the thousands of dollars of flash options are not. Try telling Microsoft that you paid good money for the computer, so therefore the software must belong to you, too.

This was the basis for the case against Nick, and in fact /\/\ lost its case against Harold (with regard to selling parts-built radios) because at no time were the radios referred to as "new", it was clear from the get-go they were parts built (or otherwise not from the factory). The defining issue of the whole case was the whored flash codes and the fact that there is no legitimate way for an enduser to upgrade his/her flash options without /\/\ getting involved and money being deposited into /\/\'s pocket.

I doubt /\/\ ever had any notion of going after end users, though. The radios were needed to build a case against Nick, who in turn flipped on his partner-in-crime Harold, who was the one that /\/\ ultimately stuck it to. /\/\ won a judgment totalling over 1 1/2 million dollars. Keep in mind that this is not the first (or second) time that /\/\ went after Harold for violating their intellectual property and won.

I challenge anyone here to go up against /\/\ writing a demand letter after they purchased something bootleg. The only difference between this and pissing into the wind is that this will cost you alot more money. Monday morning quarterbacks notwithstanding, the flash options are still property of /\/\. And for those of you who say that the software is already loaded on every radio, if you had a point, there would be no such thing as shareware or the time-limited versions of software that is almost always loaded on pre-built computers. All this talk of crime and theft is pointless and utterly irrelevant.

I find it pretty ironic (hypocritical) that anyone would accuse /\/\ of "theft" or "stealing" when every radio Nick sold had illegitimate software. What's next, the repo man is a thief, too????

Posted: **Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:49 am**

the flaw in the arguement is does the end user KNOW if he acted in GOOD FAITH and purchased HARDWARE that is NOT STOLEN? to my knowledge, Motorola doesn't make one sign an EULA when buying a radio. There are no "authenticity labels" on the unit. An end user who buys a used piece of hardware's responsibility is to ensure that the item isn't stolen which no one including ma M disputes that the parts were obtained through proper channels from them.

So how can someone be in violation of IP rights if the EU hasn't signed an EULA or knows this? What rights does Motorola have to confiscate the HARDWARE? NONE. If the HARDWARE is legit, they have ZERO legal right to confiscate it. Can they advise you that the SOFTWARE is bootleg and encourage you to delete it (by taking it to a shop and having it reflashed with the default H35 or whatever would come standard in a replacement vocon)? Yes. No different than your analogy with Microsoft advising you that your copy of Windows is not legit.

But keeping an end users' hardware that is NOT STOLEN does constitute a criminal offense. At least in the state of Georgia. and believe me, I would be trotting down to the Cobb county (where I live) sheriff's office and swearing out a criminal warrant for theft by taking. You cannot take someon else's physical property which you don't have title to. the repo man even knows that. Even he can't keep personal property found in the vehicle he repos, he must inventory it and hold it for 90 days (at least in the state of Georgia) before disposing of it and give the owner notice to claim it. Yes, he too can go to jail for theft if he doesn't follow the letter of the law.

No doubt Harold Pick and Nick stole and distributed flashcodes they weren't supposed to. It is well within Ma M's right to ask those in posession to either pay for them or have them removed from the radios. But the HARDWARE is LEGIT and they have no right to take it and keep it.

That's theft. Plain and simple. No matter how you cut it, it still isn't right and they would be liable.

Posted: **Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:55 pm**

If the issue is the software, then what Motorola should be doing is putting in a basic codeplug and returning the radios. To borrow escomm's analogy, it would be like Microsoft seizing your computer because you had a pirated copy of Windows. The software is illegal, but the hardware isn't. They shouldn't be keeping the hardware.

Posted: **Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:25 pm**

Last time I checked, motorola makes crappy radios and cell fones. Unless I am out of it, they are not a law enforcement agency. Why are they trying to act like one?

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:19 pm**

Because they have enough money to act like one. Besides, everyone knows you can "buy off" the law anyway.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:59 pm**

bellersley wrote: Besides, everyone knows you can "buy off" the law anyway.

Not funny, not true.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:40 pm**

EPC_1111 wrote:
bellersley wrote: Besides, everyone knows you can "buy off" the law anyway.
Not funny, not true.

Anyone can be "bought off" for the right amount of money - ANYONE... It all depends on what their right amount is.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:08 pm**

[quote="EPC_1111]Not funny, not true.[/quote]

Please. Like the above post says, if you have enough money, you make the laws. It's called the golden rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules.

If I created a computer program and somebody ripped me off by pirating it, no court in the world is going to take the case seriously. But when Motorola or Microsoft, or any other company with more money than they know what to do with, has it happen, all of the sudden it's taken care of.

Whomever said the law applies equally to all has obviously never opened up a newspaper before.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:20 pm**

RESCUE161 wrote:
EPC_1111 wrote:
bellersley wrote: Besides, everyone knows you can "buy off" the law anyway.
Not funny, not true.
Anyone can be "bought off" for the right amount of money - ANYONE... It all depends on what their right amount is.

I guess Im the only person around with integrity. (Shrugs)

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:00 pm**

EPC_1111 wrote:
RESCUE161 wrote:
EPC_1111 wrote: Not funny, not true.
Anyone can be "bought off" for the right amount of money - ANYONE... It all depends on what their right amount is.
I guess Im the only person around with integrity. (Shrugs)

Has nothing to do with integrity once the amount of money exceeds the integrity limits. There is a very fine line drawn for integrity, but a very large variance on that line. In other words, some people can be bought off for a small amount of money and then their integrity is gone. For others, it would take a very large amount for them to sell their integrity.

It all depends on how they were raised.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:04 pm**

Just another reason the statue of justice wears a blindfold - she's ashamed of what goes on in the courts of American.

Justice comes in shades. One's bank account determines the shade. Cry foul if you like, but experience has shown that the good guy really does finish last, especially when they're up against the deep pockets of Motorola & Microsoft.

That lesson taught by the school of hard knocks.

- trg

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:52 pm**

Exactly.

Everybody has a price. Everybody.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:27 pm**

bellersley wrote:Exactly.

Everybody has a price. Everybody.

That's total horse $hit. Your speaking for yourself. Life is not about $$$.

SG

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:37 pm**

spectragod wrote:
bellersley wrote:Exactly.

Everybody has a price. Everybody.
That's total horse $hit. Your speaking for yourself. Life is not about $$$.

SG

Tell that to Motorola and their vultures.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:12 pm**

spectragod wrote: That's total horse $hit. Your speaking for yourself. Life is not about $$$.
SG

Well, it's certainly the way life seems to work. When high-profile people can get away with crimes that most people would be locked away for, it makes you wonder. Large companies can buy their way out of trouble by paying people off. Look what happened with Michael Jackson. Are you telling me that if it were just a regular Joe and not someone with $$$ they would have gotten off as well?

The fact of the matter is that if you have the $$$ that Microsoft, Motorola, or any of the big names do, you can pretty much dictate what will and what won't apply to you. There are countless examples of this. Remember, the justice system has one crutial flaw - it's run by humans. While maybe not everybody can be bought, it sure seems like the thing to do these days.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:26 pm**

bellersley wrote:
spectragod wrote: That's total horse $hit. Your speaking for yourself. Life is not about $$$.
SG
Well, it's certainly the way life seems to work. When high-profile people can get away with crimes that most people would be locked away for, it makes you wonder. Large companies can buy their way out of trouble by paying people off. Look what happened with Michael Jackson. Are you telling me that if it were just a regular Joe and not someone with $$$ they would have gotten off as well?

The fact of the matter is that if you have the $$$ that Microsoft, Motorola, or any of the big names do, you can pretty much dictate what will and what won't apply to you. There are countless examples of this. Remember, the justice system has one crutial flaw - it's run by humans. While maybe not everybody can be bought, it sure seems like the thing to do these days.

I speak for myself, no one else.

SG

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:37 am**

HELP my microwave oven is for sale at Dayton in 97.

I need to send it back to Sears (KMart)to get firmware removed.

Does someone know the address or should I send it to Motorola
because it has 58c in it and I'm scared of them because I signed
an Eula in 1984 for maxtrash programming software.

sorry ,I had to do this.

AB

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:50 pm**

Ha.... you should mail it to them with that on a note inside.

Posted: **Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:02 pm**

escomm wrote:Sorry guys, if you are in possession of a Nick radio (with the whored flash code) then you are in fact in violation of Motorola's intellectual property. You have software that you did not pay for and are not licensed to possess. It's no different than buying a computer off ebay with a pirated copy of Windows pre-loaded. The radio itself is fine, but the thousands of dollars of flash options are not. Try telling Microsoft that you paid good money for the computer, so therefore the software must belong to you, too.

This was the basis for the case against Nick, and in fact /\/\ lost its case against Harold (with regard to selling parts-built radios) because at no time were the radios referred to as "new", it was clear from the get-go they were parts built (or otherwise not from the factory). The defining issue of the whole case was the whored flash codes and the fact that there is no legitimate way for an enduser to upgrade his/her flash options without /\/\ getting involved and money being deposited into /\/\'s pocket.

I doubt /\/\ ever had any notion of going after end users, though. The radios were needed to build a case against Nick, who in turn flipped on his partner-in-crime Harold, who was the one that /\/\ ultimately stuck it to. /\/\ won a judgment totalling over 1 1/2 million dollars. Keep in mind that this is not the first (or second) time that /\/\ went after Harold for violating their intellectual property and won.

And it is STILL going on even though Patrick retired earlier this year.

Latest news is that Motorola is still <highly annoyed> about the $945K in parts that weren't paid for to make the "Nick" radios. And as such, there's a Grand Jury convened in Chicago with a few people invited to assist by providing documentation and testimony.

Motorola lost their case claiming that "used repaired" radios sold as used are somehow counterfeit. What got Harold's <body part of choice> slammed in the car door (i.e. the $1.2 million judgment) was possession of unlicensed software. Some of which he couldn't prove he paid for. Note KEEP YOUR RECEIPTS. But there's no legal explanation for having lab versions. He's lucky in a way, that $1.2 million was 12 times $100K. Motorola had a list of 75 versions of software.

Remember the noise people made when Disney threatened to sue children's hospitals for unlicensed images of Disney characters on the walls? The same holds true with Motorola. If you don't enforce your copyright you lose it.

Keep that in mind the next time you rally to the internet culture of "Information yearns to be free."

"You don't spit into the wind, tug on Superman's cape and you don't mess around with Jim"
Jim Croce

Jeff

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:58 am**

stay-con wrote:Remember the noise people made when Disney threatened to sue children's hospitals for unlicensed images of Disney characters on the walls? The same holds true with Motorola. If you don't enforce your copyright you lose it.

You fail "Copyright, Trademarks, Patents and other IPR 101."

The issue of hospitals displaying Disney characters is one of TRADEMARK, not copyright. If you don't defend you TRADEMARK you lose it.

Copyright is a different animal. You don't *lose* copyright if you don't defend it. Moreover, copyright only applies, curiously enough, to *making copies* of a work. If a children's hospital shows a copy of "Steamboat Willy" without permission from The Mouse, they *still* haven't violated copyright - they have violated the purchase license for Steamboat Willy.

Now, if the hospital copies Steamboat Willy from the 8mm film to a hard disk - THEN they MAY have violated copyright (or not, due to the Fair Use clause of the law).

NOW, back to the Motorola issue: *if* Nick used preprogrammed devices from Motorola, THEN he did NOT violate copyright - he may have violated the EULA for the purchase of the devices, he may be guilty of conversion if he didn't buy them, but he didn't violate copyright.

NOW, if he reflashed the radios - THEN copyright applies.

Look folks, I have to deal with all of these issues in my daily work, and it really GRIPES me to see people conflating copyright, patent, trademark, and EULAs - they all all distinctly different items.

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:54 am**

Wowbagger wrote:You fail "Copyright, Trademarks, Patents and other IPR 101."

Mea culpa...

But that doesn't change the seriousness of getting caught with that which does not belong to you.

Especially if you do it repeatedly.

Jeff

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:51 am**

escomm wrote:What's next, the repo man is a thief, too????

Apparently you have never been to Texas.

Posted: **Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:34 pm**

I framed my copy- after a quick chat with an Attorney that is...

Posted: **Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:57 pm**

How did you get all those radios to be bright green when It's a black and white picture?

Posted: **Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:16 pm**

Johnny Galaga wrote:How did you get all those radios to be bright green when It's a black and white picture?

Photoshop

Posted: **Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:56 pm**

escomm wrote: Photoshop

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:09 pm**

Let me say on the out set that I am new to this thread,so please be kind to me if I bring up a dead thread, but I find this incrediable that M would go this far in defense of the parts built radios,(and I get it with Nick radios, it was the software infringment M won for) when Panter is all over Egay with his 123ABC1234 whoa flashed, model change,fire sale, parts built radios. Please if you would elighten me, or have I not serached the search engine enough, because I have not found any action by M against panter,perhaps being in Hong Kong is his insulater, thanks

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:23 pm**

the fun part for Motorola is when you send your ABC1234 XTS and they get to either a): charge you time and materials or b): laugh at you uncontrollably or c): all of the above. I think the writing is on the wall that Astro 25 is going to be put to pasture anyway with APX being the chosen platform for phase II, so Motorola may not care as much as they used to. Not to mention alot has changed in Schaumberg since the Deluca Days...

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:42 pm**

Thanks for the answer, and not that I am picking on Panter, im just in amazment in the inconsitency of M and its due dilergence, and perhaps you are right the XTS family is going to pasture, but I don't see that happening very soon with the APX line and its price tag. Budgetary constraints for goverment enties are tight so I suspect the XTS family will be around for at least 2 to 3 more years.

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:03 pm**

I believe the Panter radios are indeed "fire sale" radios, in that some years ago, Motorola had a fire in a warehouse and had an insurance claim against not only the fire damaged radios but the water damaged radios as well. M's insurance paid but M had to give up the damaged radios. The insurance company auctioned/sold them as electronic scrap and thus, they are showing up on the market. Nothing that M can do about it since they already got paid for the radios.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:11 pm**

" The insurance company auctioned/sold them as electronic scrap " " Nothing that M can do about it since they already got paid for the radios."
But forgive my ignorance, but is it not still trade mark infringment to represent them as XTS2500s and XTS5000, thats a leap from elctronic scrap, just curious, thanks

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:55 pm**

the "fire sale" radios are complete units, sans a final QC and flash to customers' order request. So they are not parts built radios by third parties such as the infamous Nick/Watchbuddy XTS's...they were true blue Motorola manufactured radios allegedly damaged in a fire and were sold to the insurance co. No different than an assembled car at a GM factory that got damaged in a flood- it never got a VIN, or final QC, but rather a complete manufactured unit never sold to a dealer. The only issue with the radios is the lack of a valid serial number, hence no depot or dealer support, so you are on your own if you don't have other resources and have a problem.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:06 pm**

MTS2000des wrote:the "fire sale" radios are complete units, sans a final QC and flash to customers' order request. So they are not parts built radios by third parties such as the infamous Nick/Watchbuddy XTS's...they were true blue Motorola manufactured radios allegedly damaged in a fire and were sold to the insurance co. No different than an assembled car at a GM factory that got damaged in a flood- it never got a VIN, or final QC, but rather a complete manufactured unit never sold to a dealer. The only issue with the radios is the lack of a valid serial number, hence no depot or dealer support, so you are on your own if you don't have other resources and have a problem.

Thank you for the enlightment, total radios built by M without the final QC and serial #s and rear tags, I understand way way more now, thank you for all the answers, and I will lay this thread back to sleep.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:14 pm**

I have a couple of "Nick" XTS3000's, & while not having tags, they do have legit looking ser #'s which are displayed in the service mode. Are these just #'s that Nick made up? By the way, they still work perfectly in the ham bands. GARY N4KVE

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:29 pm**

If they were new controllers, they should come CBI programmed. Giving the user the option of setting a serial number at the time of first programming. Then there also ways to change a serial number, such as shoving in a s-record from a donor or modding it to a new one.

And at one point I do believe Motorola went after Panter88 had all his auctions pulled because of Moto. Then I think they found out they didn't have a tree to piss up and left him alone. They should have destroyed the radio before selling to a scrap dealer. They knew there were usable radios as their techs were disposing of (hoarding) some of them before the scrap guy got to them...

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:37 am**

Batwings21 wrote:If they were new controllers, they should come CBI programmed. Giving the user the option of setting a serial number at the time of first programming. Then there also ways to change a serial number, such as shoving in a s-record from a donor or modding it to a new one.

And at one point I do believe Motorola went after Panter88 had all his auctions pulled because of Moto. Then I think they found out they didn't have a tree to piss up and left him alone. They should have destroyed the radio before selling to a scrap dealer. They knew there were usable radios as their techs were disposing of (hoarding) some of them before the scrap guy got to them...

I don't believe Motorola could destroy them before the insurance company paid Motorola and took the radios off of Motorola's hands. And I would think that if Motorola had destroyed the "working" ones before they went to the insurance company, that the insurance company would not have paid out for them. (Kind of like you filing a claim for water damage for a tv and then breaking it more before you give it to the insurance company, good luck collecting.)

And yes, M did take Panter to court, and was told to piss off, all because several folks sent Panter radios to M to get flashed and a proper Serial number added. I believe I read somewhere (don't remember where) that M would put a basic flash and assign a serial number to the "fire sale" radios for a set price for those that sent them in as they got sold, as part of the court settlement.

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:00 pm**

would love to see the court filings, decision, etc on this case. Any info on what jurisdiction the suit was filed in? I'd like to have my sister who is a lawyer pull it up on Westlaw or Nexis-Lexis but need to know where to start searching (Motorola has thousands and thousands of hits!)

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:37 am**

MTS2000des wrote:would love to see the court filings, decision, etc on this case. Any info on what jurisdiction the suit was filed in? I'd like to have my sister who is a lawyer pull it up on Westlaw or Nexis-Lexis but need to know where to start searching (Motorola has thousands and thousands of hits!)

I would try IL. first and then maybe Chicago. I don't remember the date reference, but that might help if somebody else had it?

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:19 am**

From page 1

The court case shown on the letter is:

Re: United States District Court for the District of Arizona
Motorola, Inc. v. Nicholas DeLuca, et al
Case No. CIV04 128TUCRCC

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:17 pm**

Batwings21 wrote:From page 1

The court case shown on the letter is:

Re: United States District Court for the District of Arizona
Motorola, Inc. v. Nicholas DeLuca, et al
Case No. CIV04 128TUCRCC

The case I was referring to was Motorola vs. Panter in reference to the scrap Astro 25 radios, not the Nick case.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm**

Oops, my bad.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:49 pm**

I hate to ask this because I don't know if it has been talked about or not, but I am looking at one of those Panter88 radios. Its an XTS5000 Model II VHF. Radio looks great and is being sold 2nd hand. The current owner has had it since 04 with no problems. Are these radios safe to use, safe to own and could you possibly send them to Big M to have legit S/N put into the radio? I want to pick up one of these but I don't want to get screwed.

Thanks,
Nick

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:30 pm**

The consensus over the years has been that if you were going to use these radios as a hobby [ham radio etc] you should be good to go, but should not be used in any form of public safety where your life might depend on it. I don't think "M" would assign a legit ser # to it, since they didn't sell it to be used. It was sold for pennies on the dollar as "scrap" even though it might work fine. I have 2 Nick radios that have worked great over the years for ham use, but can you imagine if I was a fireman, & I missed a call for whatever reason, & somebody died, even if it wasn't the radio's fault. Can you spell LAWSUIT? GARY N4KVE

Batboard

'Nick' Radios Being Recalled . . . BY MOTOROLA !

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