Batboard

Does anyone know what the STX 5000 and 2500 Series Selling For?
Model 1


Thanks
Dan

They aren't worth much either to us "hackers"...

Don't forget to mention the VHF/UHF conventional XTS5000 model III's don't support live dial DTMF on analog modes. At least not yet...

And receiving a P25 select call while scanning on a conventional XTS5000 results in a bunch of worthless beeping with no audio coming through...

Also, the Astro Saber and XTS3000 would override Smart PTT while making a conventional P25 telephone interconnect call, which is a good thing. The XTS5000's don't.

Ah, but the XTS5000 will support live IMBE ASTRO dialing in 2Q04. The XTS3000 requires that the access code be set to blank, etc. as a workaround to support ASTRO live dialing.

Larry

r0f wrote:The STX's go for about $40 these days, if that.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=46539

Oh.. You mean XTS2500 and XTS5000's?

They aren't worth much either to us "hackers", as they're not useful for passively monitoring trunked systems. They have permanent auto-affiliation. You can't disable this, thus it's kind of like using a rake to shovel the snow from your drive-way.

Generally they don't go for any more than $1000/each. Those who buy them are foolish and don't know anything about them. Firmware can't be upgraded, flashcodes can't be hacked, serial #'s can't be changed, and model "upgrades" can't be done. A complete waste of time and money. But there are those who claim "good things come to those who wait". I just consider those people naive.

Stick with an XTS3000 or Digital Saber. Depending on what firmware/flash/condition/accessories you have, you can still fetch around $1200+ on eBay for them. Nick radios (parts built with old firmware and a silly/invalid flashcode) generally go for about $700-900.

Shaun

hmm, I have an XTS2500 and don't consider myself foolish, nor unknowing. I bought it by choice and haven't looked back. Yeah, it's gonna affiliate BUT, the conventional channel first, then talkgroups idea stops that from happening. Plus, most of the time I listen to conventional frequencies anyhow and it can be programmed as "rx" only on conventional.

Of course, I don't plan on giving up my XTS3000- I do wish that the audio were improved- but I guess the DSP upgrade has corrected the buzzing problems that I hear in the background.

-Josh

Be very careful about assuming that a radio that, in a trunked personality, is set for auto affiliation does not affiliate under the condition you have specified (which I understand to be invocation of a Talkgroup Scan scan list mixing conventional channels and talkgroups from that trunked personality). By that I mean, program a receiver of low sensitivity for the inbound side of the active control channel and then watch to see any xmit activity from your radio. It would be contrary to Motorola manuals if the radio did not transmit an affiliation ISW.

Ah, but the XTS5000 will support live IMBE ASTRO dialing in 2Q04.

Yeah, live P25 dialing would be cool to have. But I'm pretty impressed with the "phone mode" dialing myself. Sending up to 34 DTMF digits in a 90 millisecond transmission is neat...

It would be better if there was some way to encrypt the DTMF, though. I've found the XTS3000's and Astro Sabers send these DTMF packets in the clear, regardless of the encryption state of the personality. An IFR 2975 will always decode the digits. I even tried loading my Astro Saber with a key that the DIU didn't have, and could access the interconnect just fine...

I haven't tried the same experiments with an XTS5000 yet, but would bet that I'd get the same results.

I was told that the "digital DTMF" was actually a form of a standard P25 trunking ISW.

515, I have no idea what "mode" your radio is in, based on your post about "encrypted DTMF" and ASTRO Live Dialing.

ASTRO dialing involves very tightly defined APCO P25 Data 12 packets, and they can be sent (and received via a DIU configured for MRTI 2000 operations) in both the clear, and the encrypted modes. As you know, this has absolutely nothing to do with encrypted DTMF, etc.

The DIU3000 includes embedded firmware (standard feature and is not an option) that decodes these Data 12 packets, and outputs analog DTMF at the MRTI port on its rear apron (RJ-45 jack). The DIU3000 is capable of decoding both clear and encrypted Data 12 packets (e.g., ASTRO digits), just like any other voice and/or data signal. The only thing I can surmise from your post is that you may not be pulling the digits at the DIU's MRTI patch port, but I don't know with the info you have supplied. Somehow, you are apparently not encrypting the ASTRO Data 12 packets, if the IFR is decoding them when they are supposed to be encrypted, yet there is no DES-OFB decoder active on your IFR test set, and/or you said you used incompatible keys. I can't explain what is happening here.

Perhaps you are trying to encrypt DTMF via SECURENET? I have no idea if that would work "properly."

I am referring to the IMBE P25 mode, in which case, when you push the "5" key (as an example), a Data 12 packet is sent out from your XTS3000 (either clear, or encrypted, your choice). When it hits the DIU3000, the DIU's embedded firmware decodes these Data 12 packets, and spits out an analog DTMF "5" at the MRTI patch port (with a 100 msec burst, with a programmable duration via the DIU3000 RSS---100 msec is the default duration for the output DTMF tones).

It's interesting that this Data 12 decoding feature has been part of the original DIU firmware, literally from Day One.

After I read your message, I conducted a little experiment. I put a different (e.g., incorrect) DES-OFB key in one of our DIU3000s. Result: No pass-through of encrypted voice, nor encrypted ASTRO Dialing digits, as should be the case. I then restored the proper key in the DIU, and as expected, all was fine with both ASTRO IMBE voice and ASTRO dialing.

I wonder if there is some issue going on with your particular XTS firmware, or what the status of your FLASHport is? Is it "legit/pure Motorola" FLASHport, or is it some sort of an eBay variety? I would have no confidence in the behavior of an XTS with regards to this very specific idiosyncratic issue of encrypted Data 12 packets if your radio’s firmware is anything but pure Motorola. This is a prime example of where this eBay stuff tends to fall flat. Seems cheap at the get-go, but there can be subtle issues (not so subtle, either, if you need to encrypt your command digits!).

I can't tell anymore than this from your post, as I can only try to guess what the problem might be. In any event, it appears that your radio is not behaving as it should if it can only send ASTRO digits in the clear, and yet fails to be able to encrypt them with DES-OFB. I've never heard of this problem before.

Larry

Larry,

My first experiments were using an Astro Saber with a funny flash, but I just tried a factory XTS3000, and got the same results.

This is what I did:

I'm sure the DIU has only one DES-OFB key in it.
I first tested the XTS3000 with the matching DIU key, and I could access the patch (send P25 DTMF) and transmit DES-OFB audio to it just fine. I could hear myself just fine on the phone, so I know the DIU was properly decrypting.
The DIU is set for strapped encryption on the phone patch, so that the DIU/Quantar will always transmit audio from the patch/phone line encrypted. I could hear this audio fine on the XTS.
I then sent the P25 DTMF de-access code, and hung up the patch. It worked.

Next, I keyloaded the XTS3000 with another key in the same slot, and tried to talk to my Astro Saber with DES-OFB on. Of course it wouldn't work, since the XTS now has a different key.

I then brought up the patch with the Astro Saber (which still has the DIU key), and tried to talk to the phone line with the XTS3000 (which has the wrong key). No audio passed. But audio would pass if I transmitted with the Astro Saber. So now I was pretty confident that the DIU didn't have the new key...

Next, I tried to bring up the patch with the XTS3000. It worked. Of course I couldn't hear the dial tone on the XTS, since the DIU is strapped to the wrong key. But I could hear it on the Astro Saber. I then tried to transmit encrypted voice to the phone line from the XTS. No audio passed, verifying that the DIU couldn't decrypt the transmission. I then hit HOME on the XTS, and successfully hung up the patch. I made sure the encryption symbol was on the XTS's display the whole time.

I also strapped the MDP Data to Secure on the XTS, but it didn't appear to make any difference.

The DIU3000 (black rack-mount type) and patch (Zetron Worldpatch) are up at the site, so I wasn't able to change any keys on that end... The patch is connected to the DIU "PATCH" connector. A V.24 link connects the DIU to the Quantar (so patch operation is digital-only).

I know the DIU is several years old, but I don't know if it's firmware has ever been updated.

The XTS3000 is R07.05.00 and DSP N07.03.19. EMC is R03.44.

I'm pretty sure the problem (if there is one) is on the radio end...

Any ideas?

515, the only thing I can think of is that Live ASTRO Dial is not supported in the XTS3000, nor the ASTRO Spectra mobile. I assume you are using the same work around that we are. It may be that your particular FLASHport combined with your specific feature set is not compatible with ASTRO Dial.

Larry