eBay forbids selling Motorola Radios???

dereckpristas · Post by **dereckpristas** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:11 pm

I recieved an email stating that because the auction had "Motorola" in it, it infringes on a copyright and my item was removed. Has anyone else had this happen? What's going on with this? I was trying to sell a Motorola GP2000. Here's the emal from "whyended@ebay.com":

Dear Dereck Pristas (dereckpristas@yahoo.com),

**PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)**

We would like to let you know that we removed your listing:

5721168593 Motorola GP2000 UHF Self-Programmable Portable Radio

because the intellectual property rights owner notified us, under
penalty of perjury, that your listing or the item itself infringes their
copyright, trademark, or other rights.

We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also
notified the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are
not obligated to complete the transaction.

If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account
likely will be suspended.

If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions
regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the intellectual
property rights owner directly at:

Motorola, Inc.
cndt01@email.mot.com

eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the rights owner
that requested the removal of your listing(s), we encourage you to
contact them first.

For more information on eBay's cooperation with rights owners through
the VeRO Program, and a list of rights owners that have created About Me
pages, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/v ... sting.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
ebay

I'm at a loss....

Dereck

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:28 pm

Hello.

Motorola locked horns with ebay once.
The ebay site was down for a few hours while ebay got its act together on the TRO.
Ever since then ebay has been running scared from /\/\, so whatever moto' says goes, no ifs ands or buts about it.

VA3XDJ · Post by **VA3XDJ** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:29 pm

I don't think its because its a Motorola product but rather that its a radio designed and marketed towards the Asian/Pacific market.

It also does not meet FCC requirements as it is a keypad programmable radio.

eBay probably got notified by a Motorola rep. that the radio is not intended for the US market.

kf4sqb · Post by **kf4sqb** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:40 pm

orbit303 wrote:I don't think its because its a Motorola product but rather that its a radio designed and marketed towards the Asian/Pacific market.

It also does not meet FCC requirements as it is a keypad programmable radio.

eBay probably got notified by a Motorola rep. that the radio is not intended for the US market.

That is possible, but doesn't make much sense. If they don't want it sold because it is not a "domestic-oriented" radio, then why do they let their own salespeople sell them in the US? As for the keypad programmable part, who says that the FCC can deny me, as a Ham operator, the right to own a keypad programmable radio? Personally, Dereck, I would use the address they gave you for recourse to investigate this further.

kmoose · Post by **kmoose** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:41 pm

Dereck?

Did you email the address they sent you, to find out why they objected? If so, please let us know what you hear back from them. As to it being an Asian radio? E-bay is a worldwide website. I think the most they could make you do is indicate that you cannot ship it to anywhere other than the market it is intended for.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:47 pm

"...infringes their copyright, trademark, or other rights..."

That's a load of

. If it's your radio, they have no rights to it, unless you signed a contract with them that says otherwise.

kmoose · Post by **kmoose** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:04 pm

orbit303 wrote:It also does not meet FCC requirements as it is a keypad programmable radio.

I'm no FCC rules expert, by a long shot, but I question this as well. The B/K DPHs are keypad programmable, and they have FCC Type Acceptance......

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:13 pm

EBay had banned GP68's from their site sometime back. Guess someone
let them know GP2000's were similar radios. Motorola had sued a FL Motorola export dealer that were selling their export products dosmestically. They claimed violation of intellectual property rights as well
as the radios not being approved for sale in the US by the FCC. I don't like it either but no FCC acceptance they're contraband.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:27 pm

It has been brought up here before.

eBay and Motorola have problems with Export radios in all flavors: GP68, GP2000 the PRO series, as well as parts built Astro radios. It's a crock of crap. "intellectual property" my a$$- The Gp2000 is made "for" Motorola, not "by" Motorola, read the tag.

-Josh

K8TEK · Post by **K8TEK** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:47 pm

The GP2000 is on the list of "forbidden" radios...

http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.d ... t_software

MassFD · Post by **MassFD** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:11 pm

How is GM300 on the list, I have 25 of them purchased on New York State contract years ago. Since when is this radio not aproved for North America ?

n5tbu · Post by **n5tbu** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:28 pm

This is a crock,motorola might have the money to pursue these cases,but to keep you from selling "your" radio on ebay? ********!If we had unlimited legal services,they would lose in a heartbeat!
mod

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:57 pm

The short answer to the "who says" question is: the United States Congress.

The claim that once you purchase the radio, Motorola can say or do nothing about what you do with it isn't correct. The radio contains copyrighted software and some patented algorithms in it, and if you read the paperwork that comes with the radio, you are not purchasing the copyrighted and patented stuff; you are only licensing it and the licensor has complete control over what you can and cannot do with their intellectual property.

EKLB · Post by **EKLB** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:56 pm

United States GM300 radios are permitted on ebay for usa auctions.

If you read closely it states NON USA market gm300 radios intended for international markets are not allowed on ebay for usa auctions.

Same applies to the GP2000 in qestion above =Its non USA and was intended for international markets therefore its not allowed by ebay as a USA auction and is banned.

EKLB

MSS-Dave · Post by **MSS-Dave** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:45 pm

You could always take it to a "certain" hamfest in South Florida.....

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:39 am

Hello:

This is really all about competition of Motorola and their
own Products.

I think its total, complete non-sense !

I understand, but at the same time, Motorola sells Millions
of radios, and they just want a Monopoly ( Period 0 and
what surprises me, is that the new monkies even know how
to contact Ebay.

I do a lot of searching on Ebay all the time, and I am
just amazed to see how much stuff gets by their safe gards.

Unless someone Complains, generally its gets sold, and both
buyer and seller are in most cases happy.

The only thing I hate to see happening is these " high tier "
radios being built from parts, then people like me get contacted
for the detailed alighnment ( and that is not cheap ) when
it comes to Astro-Sabers.

And I have several in the shop at this momnet for that very
reason....Pretty soon, everything will be banned on Ebay !

Monty

OX · Post by OX » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:28 am

long live rec.radio.swap!

jim · Post by **jim** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:12 am

Proprietary software and algorithms?

So in other words, I cannot sell my used car since it has Daimler/Chrysler's proprietary copyrighted code in the PCM? It also has Bosch's code in the ABS controller. I can't resell my XM radio, my DTV system, my APCO 800 scanner or my computer with a Pentium processor and Microshit OS.

Total bull. The just want to flex their muscles and play god with people. Maybe we should just not buy their product anymore since apparently it has a ZERO resale value. What an investment! You purchase a $700.00 radio and ten minutes later it's worth ZERO!

Kenwood doesn't care if you sell ANY of their used radios...which may I add, usually work better than Motorola's radios anyway in the past few years.

I think this company better wake up and take a look around before they end up as #2. Not that we'd complain.

VA3XDJ · Post by **VA3XDJ** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:15 am

As long as they get contracts from big companies putting down lots of money, they don't and won't give a .... about the average user or HAM who happens to like their radios because of quality and robustness.

And even the quality and robustness is starting to lack.

440roadrunner · Post by **440roadrunner** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:31 am

Seems to me that if Motorola wants to be this way, then the solution is simple---don't buy, use, or have these Motorola products.

A partial quote from:

http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.d ... t_software

"an illegally programmed radio"---" eavesdrop’ on critical communications with criminal intent."

"Selling Motorola manufactured: GM300----GP68----non-US models----infringes on Motorola's Intellectual Property and is against U.S. and Canadian Federal Law.----these radios are NOT designed NOR advertised to be sold as amateur radio units----"

""Motorola licensed service shops are NOT authorized to carryout warranty repairs on these radios because they are considered 'grey market' radios; illegally imported radios carry NO North American warranty""

Here's an interesting take:

"There are NO ‘individuals’ licensed by Motorola to legally build or sell Motorola two-way radios, thus, a seller auctioning a “Motorola” radio “built from new Motorola parts”, incorporating Motorola copyrighted ‘Flashcode’ and/or a modified Electronic Serial Number (ESN) is committing an illegal act."

Maybe it's time to buy a Kenwood.

Victor Xray · Post by **Victor Xray** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:36 am

This Motorola ebay "agent" is very interested in buying some current auctions. Wonder what he (THEY) are looking to find if they win...

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?M ... l=1&rows=0

boomboy64 · Post by **boomboy64** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:20 am

I think that there is a misconception here about intellectual property.

You own your radio, period. You don't necessarily own or have the right to fiddle with the software inside... There is nothing preventing you from selling your used car (or Motorola radio), regardless of the IP contained in the PCM, because it came that way from the dealer. What the company can do, is complain and refuse service if you fiddle with the code in the PCM in an unapproved way and then try to get them to fix your car. There is a lot of #$%^&* going around up here right now because some of the dealerships won't work on cars that have been 'chipped up' (think rice rockets). The owner of IP is entitled under law (in both US and Canada) to restrict his IP in whatever manner he wants. Chrysler probably doesn't give it much thought today, but if enough people start playing with the car software trying to do other stuff and then someone sues them when @#$%^ happens, you'll probably see new car contracts magically grow IP clauses.

Same thing for Windows... Check the license, which is called the End-user Licensing Agreement (note: *not* Ownership Agreement). You are not the owner of the software, just the licensee. You have paid for the privilege of using it, and while it can usually be transferred with the computer it was originally installed on, you can't sell the disks stand-alone. Microsoft is *very* proactive in going after stores up here that sell the famous "TO BE BUNDLED WITH A NEW PC ONLY" disks as separate items.

I don't necessarily agree with everything that Micro$oft or Ma M do, but under the current legislation, if they spell out their conditions clearly in the Licensing Agreements, they can retain as much control as they want over their IP. The fact that you are the 2nd or 3rd owner of the radio, computer, or whatever does not diminish their rights under the license agreements, most of which also include a line or two about transfer involving the agreement paperwork also being transferred. They don't seem too shy about protecting their IP, as witnessed in many instances on this board (No RSS, the whole Nick saga, etc...)

About your Kenwood comment (notwithstanding the fact that I tend to agree with you about the technical quality of their products lately), if Kenwood's radio design philosophy and business models were similar to Motorola's (flashport, pay-for-each-feature), and someone came up with ways to by-pass having to pay to unlock every new feature, I'm pretty confident that their actions on the IP front would be extremely similar.

My 2 cents (about 1.3 cents US at today's exchange rate)

Dan
VE4EOD

boomboy64 · Post by **boomboy64** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:34 am

Victor Xray wrote:This Motorola ebay "agent" is very interested in buying some current auctions. Wonder what he (THEY) are looking to find if they win...

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?M ... l=1&rows=0

I'm wondering if this guy isn't just someone who deals in Motorola stuff who got caught selling RSS (notice his name???).

Maybe part of his punishment is having to put all of the Motorola party line on his page?

Just a thought...

Dan
VE4EOD

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:50 am

good luck with ebay, they have canceled my HR2600 radio SEVERAL times saying its a CB (even though it cant be modded to do anything other than 28-29.7)

hell they even canceled a MTX900 900Mhz radio once telling me it wasnt a US radio... they got confused with the jedi looking MTX in asia....

arguing with them is like talking to a wall.

ESDA20 · Post by **ESDA20** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:54 pm

Around here, we have a pretty easy way to deal with the problems with Motorola.

We call our Kenwood rep.

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:30 pm

Hello.

Want to add features to your kenwood radio?
How 'bout that yaesu?
The company will provide you with all the software and firmware upgrades you can handle.
Yes, there is a charge to add a zillion channels to your radio.
There is a fee for the RSS.
But the total for ALL of the software from both companies is less than most packages for one radio that mamma /\/\ charges.
The worst of it is that it is easy to copy firmware dongles, make the nick radio of your dreams, with a dongle emulator.

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:10 pm

Hmmm, So why not sue Motorola for running a monopoly like they did to the Bell System a few years ago and put these adam henries in there place.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:28 pm

ScannerDan wrote:Hmmm, So why not sue Motorola for running a monopoly like they did to the Bell System a few years ago and put these adam henries in there place.

HERE HERE!

contrak10 · Post by **contrak10** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:06 pm

A good tip I got from someone said to post the radio and make it worldwide, then just make up some BS when you list the radios location.

K8TEK · Post by **K8TEK** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:05 am

boomboy64 wrote:
Victor Xray wrote:This Motorola ebay "agent" is very interested in buying some current auctions. Wonder what he (THEY) are looking to find if they win...

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?M ... l=1&rows=0
I'm wondering if this guy isn't just someone who deals in Motorola stuff who got caught selling RSS (notice his name???).

Maybe part of his punishment is having to put all of the Motorola party line on his page?

Just a thought...

Dan
VE4EOD

Read this page...
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html

John G · Post by **John G** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:52 am

This is a very interesting topic. After reading a rather lenghty Motorola policy statement regarding intellectual property rights, I was pondering some of the same points. Specifically concerning the GP68. Motorola says it is illegal to own one in the US. Not because it isn't type accepted, mine is, and they do list this as one of the reasons. It is illegal because it violates their intellectual property rights. I had wondered how, but it seems that you can pretty much spell out how your intellectual property can and can't be used. It doesn't have to even make sense. So, basically, if M wanted to, they could confiscate my GP68 if ever they were to see me with it or even know that I owned it. I wonder about licensing though. What if I buy second hand and never saw or knew of the existence of the IP license agreement? It seems not to matter judging by the behavior of E bay. Considering their stance on RSS and the export radio issue, it seems to me they are more concerned with IP rights than making good radios. Though I own some Motorola stuff, I am getting less inclined to ever buy any again. I am not bashing the big M here. It is merely common sense. Why buy a brand of radio where the maker considers you a potential defendant in a lawsuit from the get go?
I have enough to be concerned with already without this too.

Lord Windeshmere · Post by **Lord Windeshmere** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:09 pm

If one, say Motorola for instance, wants to be picky they could even say the radio's s/w was reverse or re-engineered via programming s/w if not done by someone with a valid licensing agreement with Motorola for the s/w used for that radio. The "Motorola confiscated my radio", etc., arguments reek of grey-area disputable points, as the Microsoft case was, and though I've never had a problem with Motherola I'd like to see how this would all come out if someone had enough $ to fight the big M.

SPGoC · Post by **SPGoC** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:44 am

What no one has pointed out, is that the ebay user mot_software is actually the big /v\ themselves...

That page is specifically maintained by Motorola.

As for what they're buying from other people... Could it be to see what's out there, and to just plain keep it from staying on the grey market?

They are so worried about competition, that they are willing to buy the radios up, and send them right to the crusher in Schaumburg... After checking the radio out to see what's been done to it, of course...

gp900 · Post by **gp900** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:04 pm

Mother /\/\ endorsing non oem programming cable!

Excellent quality merchandise
Buyer mot_software ( 4 ) Dec-08-03 12:54 3058246238
Reply by kawamall: THANKS FOR Program Cable Motorola HT1250 HT1550 HT750 Dec-09-03 06:43

kmoose · Post by **kmoose** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:20 am

SPGoC wrote:What no one has pointed out, is that the ebay user mot_software is actually the big /v\ themselves...

That page is specifically maintained by Motorola.

As for what they're buying from other people... Could it be to see what's out there, and to just plain keep it from staying on the grey market?

They are so worried about competition, that they are willing to buy the radios up, and send them right to the crusher in Schaumburg... After checking the radio out to see what's been done to it, of course...

They probably are buying stuff up as part of the "Engineering Initiative 2004". Talk about outsourcing? "Hey Boss, we don't need to actually work. Let's just pick up some hacked radios on Ebay and see what people have done to them. We can keep the changes that we like, and discard the ones we don't."

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:06 am

Hello.

Actually, /\/\ does just that.
I was working on a full rewrite of the spectra.
That was shut down, but /\/\ cut a deal that I thought was strange at the time.
I have access to 'most all moto' RSS, can mod' to my hearts content, but can make no distro'.
It turns out, this wierd deal is not that that unusual at all.
And, as far as the GP68 goes, there is this Asia-built radio that is an almost exact copy, it programs in RS232 based RSS.
Once you look at both radios firmware side by side, you will see that /\/\ did indeed have a rewrite, but it is not that far off.
Microsoft sold to tandy the OS for the tandy 100/101/200 series of portable computer.
The OS is small enough to see what makes it tick.
It was written by a bunch of Japanese students, one of the reasons it works so well.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/csr/comph ... s.htm#tc35
http://www.oldcomputers.net/kc85.html

OX · Post by OX » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:11 pm

What if I buy second hand and never saw or knew of the existence of the IP license agreement?

Is there in the agreement regarding resale or redistribution?

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:30 pm

Hello.

What would motorolas reaction to one of,
http://itweb.salisbury.edu/~rafantini/this_is_a_urc.htm
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program ... rc-101.htm
They are now becoming surplus in quantity.

Motradio · Post by **Motradio** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:18 pm

Well, seems that the Stupid Ebay police is at it again, a friend of mine that sells My RIB PCB in assembled form got the letter below today -

Anyone waste their breath contacting the email below for any items that may have been removed?

Sandy

---------------
**PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)**

We would like to let you know that we removed your listing:

5724566477 Motorola RIB with serial cable $5 Shipping * * USA * *

because the intellectual property rights owner notified us, under penalty of perjury, that your listing or the item itself infringes their copyright, trademark, or other rights.

If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the intellectual property rights owner directly at:

Motorola, Inc.
cndt01@email.mot.com

jim · Post by **jim** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:29 am

BUY KENWOOD.

Motradio · Post by **Motradio** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:11 am

Why? And not helpful at all.

Sandy

70351 · Post by **70351** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:02 pm

I think it's apparent that people will have to continue to gravitate away from /\/\otorola products in general. As good as they are, Kenwood & Yaesu, among others, make excellent products. Their pricing is way under the big /\/\'s, And the other guys don't try and muscle you like they're the syndicate or something.

I love /\/\ stuff. I really don't care for the mafia tactics though, and it will undoubtedly steer me to other manufacturers in the future. I can say this much though, if I had to put together a system next week for an employer it would definitely NOT be syndicate /\/\. They've gone way over the line to preserve their name as far as I'm concerned. I'll use their stuff for now, but I'll be switching before too long.

Evolution has a way of leveling the playing field . . .

Randy

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:27 pm

mot_software is actually /\/\, eh?

If they buy something off you, tell them you'll go to /\/\ HQ in Schaumburg to deliver it

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:53 am

Motradio wrote:....a friend of mine that sells My RIB PCB in assembled form.....5724566477 Motorola RIB with serial cable $5 Shipping

The way its listed makes it sound like a Motorola manufactured RIB. The description of the circuit board sounds like its one the RIB clones that Motorola did not make. If true, then Motorola is correct about it infringing. Just re-list it as "compatible" with Motorola brand RIB or as a "replacement" for the Motorola brand RIB and they should not have anything to complain about to eBAY.

Some of the other banned eBAY stuff looks like Motorola is just taking the easy path and stepping on the little people, financially speaking

, that are probably never going to drag them into court and make them defend their infringement claims or sue Motorola for interfering with their business, etc.

Motradio · Post by **Motradio** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:18 am

MikeB is the winner, my buddy sent a message to the motorola email and they said that is was the title wording that made it sound like a Geuine Motorola part... Lame Still, but the legal folk have to eat as well

He has changed the working and lets see if they pick it up again.

Sandy

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:14 am

Motradio wrote:MikeB is the winner, my buddy sent a message to the motorola email and they said that is was the title wording that made it sound like a Geuine Motorola part...

So what are you trying to say ? I can't sell a geniune Motorola part or radio ? That's a bunch of Bull Sh*t...

Dan...

Motradio · Post by **Motradio** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:24 am

What he was trying to say is that if you are advertising it as a 'Motorola RIB' then it must be from Motorola, not from someone else. I guess Motorola doesn't want people to get confused on what they made vs. 3rd party products. The product that my buddy was selling was NOT made by motorola and that is why the ejected the auction. Nothing else implied.

Sandy

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:15 pm

cndt01@email.mot.com

this person or persons is at it again, i recently had an auction canceled for a trunking radio. i wasnt offering software, it wasnt a hacked radio. the only thing it could be was it was smartnet 900, but why the heck would they care abt selling a 900 meg smartnet radio?

i havent emailed them, i figure whats the point, rather not get my email in thier machine. they'll prob have some BS answer for me any way.

wazz

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 am

wazzzzzzzzup wrote:cndt01@email.mot.com

this person or persons is at it again, i recently had an auction canceled for a trunking radio. i wasnt offering software, it wasnt a hacked radio. the only thing it could be was it was smartnet 900, but why the heck would they care abt selling a 900 meg smartnet radio?

i havent emailed them, i figure whats the point, rather not get my email in thier machine. they'll prob have some BS answer for me any way.

wazz

It's our friend Patrick Harrington, the IP junk yard dog over at Motorola.

For some less than flattering comments about Pat, see the Whacker thread over on the HamSexy forum.

http://forums.hamsexy.com/viewtopic.php?t=2783

The nexus of all this is in Federal Court right now. See the "Nick Radios" thread

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... &start=500

More on that over there where it belongs.

Jeff

wa1tej · Post by **wa1tej** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:28 pm

Does anyone know if this eBay/Moto policy would apply to equipment designed & manufactured by them for the US Military (i.e payed for entirely by our tax $$$)? I'm referring to the AN/URC-100-series tactical/SATCOM transceivers. I'm interested in selling a URC-101.

Jack

eBay forbids selling Motorola Radios???

eBay forbids selling Motorola Radios???

Moto' rampage.

Kenwood and Yaesu upgrades.

Engineering Initiative 2004

?