'Nick' Radios Being Recalled . . . BY MOTOROLA !

[ka8ypy]

I hate to ask this because I don't know if it has been talked about or not, but I am looking at one of those Panter88 radios. Its an XTS5000 Model II VHF. Radio looks great and is being sold 2nd hand. The current owner has had it since 04 with no problems. Are these radios safe to use, safe to own and could you possibly send them to Big M to have legit S/N put into the radio? I want to pick up one of these but I don't want to get screwed.

Thanks,
Nick

If you originally bought the radio from Panter, I believe that Motorola would charge you a flat rate fee to put a basic flash in it and legit serial number (still unconfirmed tho), so if it has more than a basic flash, then sending it to Motorola would wipe that out.

[nick.dejohn]

I just bought the radio. I'm waiting for it to come in. I will look at it once I get into the programming and see what it is all about.

So, it sounds like these radios are ok to have. I had a Nick radio along time ago and got rid of it because there was no word what Big M was gonna do and I didn't want to get caught up in it.

Thanks,
Nick

I hate to ask this because I don't know if it has been talked about or not, but I am looking at one of those Panter88 radios. Its an XTS5000 Model II VHF. Radio looks great and is being sold 2nd hand. The current owner has had it since 04 with no problems. Are these radios safe to use, safe to own and could you possibly send them to Big M to have legit S/N put into the radio? I want to pick up one of these but I don't want to get screwed.

Thanks,
Nick

If you originally bought the radio from Panter, I believe that Motorola would charge you a flat rate fee to put a basic flash in it and legit serial number (still unconfirmed tho), so if it has more than a basic flash, then sending it to Motorola would wipe that out.

[com501]

I just bought the radio. I'm waiting for it to come in. I will look at it once I get into the programming and see what it is all about.

So, it sounds like these radios are ok to have. I had a Nick radio along time ago and got rid of it because there was no word what Big M was gonna do and I didn't want to get caught up in it.

Thanks,
Nick

I hate to ask this because I don't know if it has been talked about or not, but I am looking at one of those Panter88 radios. Its an XTS5000 Model II VHF. Radio looks great and is being sold 2nd hand. The current owner has had it since 04 with no problems. Are these radios safe to use, safe to own and could you possibly send them to Big M to have legit S/N put into the radio? I want to pick up one of these but I don't want to get screwed.

Thanks,
Nick

If you originally bought the radio from Panter, I believe that Motorola would charge you a flat rate fee to put a basic flash in it and legit serial number (still unconfirmed tho), so if it has more than a basic flash, then sending it to Motorola would wipe that out.

More than likely, you will find some sort of legit (but probably not basic) flash and a serial number of 123ABC1234 in the radio.

I would NOT send this radio to Motorola, since it is unsupported, and there are good odds they won't send it back. These are 'gray market' radios which have been diverted from the normal scrap process somewhere along the line before labelling, final QC and serial number programming. All radios in the plant have the same serial number until after QC and programming/labelling to the customer order profile.

I own several of these radios, they all work, all had some sort of flash in them besides basic, but were all what I would consider legit or standard flashes, nothing that you couldn't order that way. They ALL required thorough alignment with the proper test equipment before they would function optimally. Like other posters have stated, since these radios are NOT TYPE ACCEPTED, they are not legal for operation anywhere except the ham bands.

[MattSR]

How can they "not send them back" when the radio isn't even their property anymore? If all the stories are true, they sold the radios as scrap, at which point they no longer become /\/\otorolas property..

[com501]

Actually it is their property, acquired outside of the contractual chain of custody. It is exactly the same as the garbage company prosecuting you for stealing aluminum out of people's trash cans, it isn't your property or the property of the people who threw it away, it belongs to the garbage company.

There is some uncertainty as to how these radios (in this case 123ABC1234 radios which appear new) came to be diverted from the assembly, pre-QC and final QC areas of the originating manufacturer in the Orient. Whether they were marked as scrap, failed QC for some reason, or were diverted prior to branding and went out the back door is an unknown.

Either way, the radio does not exist as far as M is concerned, it is supposed to be scrapped. The customer MIGHT get the radio back, but certainly someone from legal would be requiring to know the purchase history before hand, and a huge bill for repair would ensue. At my MSS, it most likely wouldn't get sent in. We would not assume that liability without written instruction from Motorola prior to doing so.

In my case, I paid far less than my wholesale cost on my radios, can service and upgrade them as necessary including alignment, and have assumed the technical risk of using them on the amatuer radio bands. In no circumstances would I consider selling my radios to someone who was not thoroughly familiar with their history and who would NEVER risk prosecution or a life by putting them on commercial service.

[RadioSouth]

I wonder just how big of a score Panter made on these, seems like he's been selling this stuff for years. On a side note, there was a South FL pawnshop a few years back that had a pallet box about 3' deep of what was likely the recalled Minitor 3's.
Don't know if he picked those up as scrap or courtesy of Waste Mgmt.

[MattSR]

It is exactly the same as the garbage company prosecuting you for stealing aluminum out of people's trash cans, it isn't your property or the property of the people who threw it away, it belongs to the garbage company.

In which case it means the radios are the property fo the DISPOSALS company that they were SOLD to. If the disposals people then decide to sell the radios to panter is their business..

It still means the radios are no longer /\/\otorolas property.

[com501]

It is exactly the same as the garbage company prosecuting you for stealing aluminum out of people's trash cans, it isn't your property or the property of the people who threw it away, it belongs to the garbage company.

In which case it means the radios are the property fo the DISPOSALS company that they were SOLD to. If the disposals people then decide to sell the radios to panter is their business..

It still means the radios are no longer /\/\otorolas property.

Wrong. If the radios left the factory under the care of the disposal company they have violated their contract if the radios were not destroyed, at which point the radio still becomes the intellectual property of Motorola until disposed.

Regardless, the radio should NEVER be sent to Motorola without a clear understanding in WRITING of what their duties and responsibilities are and what will happen to the radio if sent into them.

Since this is grey market equipement, it is almost as bad as stolen, but not AS bad. Grey market is still probably a violation of the DMCA if Motorola wanted to push it.

[ka8ypy]

It is exactly the same as the garbage company prosecuting you for stealing aluminum out of people's trash cans, it isn't your property or the property of the people who threw it away, it belongs to the garbage company.

In which case it means the radios are the property fo the DISPOSALS company that they were SOLD to. If the disposals people then decide to sell the radios to panter is their business..

It still means the radios are no longer /\/\otorolas property.

Wrong. If the radios left the factory under the care of the disposal company they have violated their contract if the radios were not destroyed, at which point the radio still becomes the intellectual property of Motorola until disposed.

Regardless, the radio should NEVER be sent to Motorola without a clear understanding in WRITING of what their duties and responsibilities are and what will happen to the radio if sent into them.

Since this is grey market equipement, it is almost as bad as stolen, but not AS bad. Grey market is still probably a violation of the DMCA if Motorola wanted to push it.

And if an insurance company took custody of the radios as defective and paid Motorola, they are no longer Motorola property and Motorola has absolutely no say in what happens to the radios. Thus, the insurance company can do whatever they want with the radios to try and recoup some of their payout. Standard procedure in the insurance world with damage property that the insurance company pays the insured for.

Thus, back to the original comment, if Motorola was paid by the insurance company, they are no longer Motorola property and thus Motorola has no right to not return the radios.

[HOWARD]

I'd still like to catch up with Nick Deluca and beat my $8,300.00 out of him!
Howard

[Mfire39]

$8,300.00

Ouch!

[Batwings21]

I'd still like to catch up with Nick Deluca and beat my $8,300.00 out of him!
Howard

That would be a lot of beating!

As far as Panter's radios go, if Moto had a leg to stand on, they would not still be selling them! Guess there scrap contract had a loophole!

[Wowbagger]

And if an insurance company took custody of the radios as defective and paid Motorola, they are no longer Motorola property and Motorola has absolutely no say in what happens to the radios.

Not true, and the reason is in the very message you quoted:

If the radios left the factory under the care of the disposal company they have violated their contract if the radios were not destroyed, at which point the radio still becomes the intellectual property of Motorola until disposed.

This is exactly like what happens when you buy a house in a neighborhood with covenants: the covenants are part of the contract of you buying the house, and you are bound by that contract to obey them. Fail to obey them, and you are in breach of the contract that transferred ownership of the house to you. Theoretically, the developer could then take back your house (of course, he would owe you the money you gave him).

Likewise, *if* there was a contract between Motorola and the insurance company that said "You pay us $$$, we let you have the radios FOR SCRAP, with the agreement that the radios SHALL NEVER be put into service as operational radios." then the insurance company would be bound by that contract, and if they did indeed violate the contract, then the transfer of the ownership of the radios to them is void.

Now, nobody on this board (as far as I know) is privy to the contract between the insurance agency and Motorola, so whether such a term existed in the contract is unknown, so we cannot make any blanket statement about what the insurance company was entitled to do with those radios.

[123]

I disagree with many of the statements but for the sake of a long post, I will just post my view into the discussion.

The following is Fact & true story:

I sell high end home sub woofers that are retailed at $899

Item gets shipped to customer by UPS insured. Customer says sub is damaged. UPS inspects the damage, returns the sub to me {the shipper and insurer} I receive it back with mild scratches on the wood & sometimes breaks in the wood of the sub{Fixable}. The UPS insurance company pays me my FULL insured amount.
UPS and the insurance Company tells me I can do whatever I want to do with the damaged item I received back.

What do I do? I resell it as a Insurance damaged item and describe the damage which can easily be fixed by any person that works with wood.

My profit? About $300 on each sale

There are Salvage Corporations that do exactly what I described above as a regular for profit business. Some item are water damaged., fire damage, or just plain NO damage at all to the item but for insurance purposes you must do a claim on the entire crate depending on the situation. Nothing illegal about this type of money making...

As long as you disclose to the customer the truth about the item when resold {Example: Reconditioned, B Stock, Parts built, insurance claim item,etc} there is no wrong doing. Just like when a dealer sells a salvage title Vehicle well below blue book value when the vehicle looks and feels new. Who cares if it is a salvage title that had a insurance claim due to a auto accident, you still get to drive a nice new looking vehicle for a fraction of the price !

My point being is just because a item is cleared for salvage and insurance claimed out, does not mean you can not resell it. As long as you do full disclosure to the end user.

And no there is no such thing as a contract between the Insurance Company and Motorola..The Insurance Companies job is to refund your full replacement costs and may elect to keep the item...But in my instance they let me keep it.

But here is the key. If Motorola "PAYS" for a service,to lets say salvage yard to destroy the radios. Then yes, Motorola has the right to tell the Company what to do or not to do. Because they are paying for a certain service. That if not preformed, can be a breach of verbal or written contract between the two parties for the "said" service.

But if Motorola "sells" the radios even as scrap, then the Salvage company has legal possession to resell then if they wish. Because if the item is "sold" Motorola is transferring ownership. Intellectual rights have nothing to do with the right to resell a item that you legally bought. And if you are restricted from reselling it or doing certain things while in legal possession, then you legally did not "buy" the item to begin with...that would be "leasing"
And if the intent is to never allow you to "own" the item but to carry out a certain function, then the better term would be "contract of service"
NOT "purchasing"

And if the Insurance Company pays Motorola for the claim, the insurance Company can elect to keep the radios and do what they wish with them.

[KG4FOY]

They should have destroyed the radio before selling to a scrap dealer.

Once their insurance carrier paid them it became the property of the insurance company and NOT /\/\. If /\/\ had sent them to be destroyed before turning them over to the insurance carrier, the insurance carrier would have subtracted the value of the salvage from the settlement giving /\/\ a FAR smaller settlement. The insurance carrier also retains the right to sell the damaged and undamaged items they pay for as salvage to help recoup costs. /\/\ also would not have received as much money on the settlement as you may think. Commercial policies for product and cargo written to the manufacturer only cover their cost in each product (parts, labor, transportation ect) and do not insure for the full value of the radio.

With UPS for instance you are dealing with a self insured company that would rather not have you send them the damaged product as they would have to pay for that shipping and dispose of the items they damage. Often then $ .10 on the dollar they would get at a salvage auction would not even cover the cost of shipping, storage and sales fees for most damaged items so it's not in their economic interests to have you send them the item.

[stay-con]

As long as you disclose to the customer the truth about the item when resold {Example: Reconditioned, B Stock, Parts built, insurance claim item,etc} there is no wrong doing.

And to kind of drag this back onto the original topic...

This is exactly what Motorola was trying to claim in court. That both Nick and Harold were selling radios that Motorola claimed were "counterfeit" because they (Motorola) hadn't made them.

Motorola lost in court. And it's a good thing too, because it would have set a horrific precedent as to the used equipment market.

Jeff

[MT2000 man]

Any word on what ever happened to that fellow (Nick) ?????

[123]

Any word on what ever happened to that fellow (Nick) ?????

Or better question... Did he ever pay ANYONE on all the money he owe's people??

[stay-con]

Any word on what ever happened to that fellow (Nick) ?????

The last rumors I heard, at least a year old, was that the FBI had a renewed interest in Nick.

Or better question... Did he ever pay ANYONE on all the money he owes people??

Heh heh heh, this is Nick we're talking about right?

On a more sobering front, this has all the potential to become a real horror story for the used equipment market.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... own-it.ars

Especially chilling at the bottom: "Under the Ninth Circuit's ruling, a manufacturer would obtain the right to control its product even after the first sale," the groups warn, "and would maintain this right until it authorizes the product's sale within the United States. Buyers, in contrast, are left without the first sale doctrine to protect their subsequent disposition of the good."

You can rest assured that the big blue mother would be more than happy to control it's products every step of the way from one user to the next.
Which is what that whole "counterfeiting" claim was about to begin with.

Jeff