Batboard

This is a warning to ebay users. Ebay user name COMPUTER-SURPLUS-OUTLET has been selling DES and DES XL key inserters which are bogus.
I received mine missing internal parts which make the unit worthless because motorola no longer supplies them. Of course they said it was
"AS IS" no refunds. But they don't tell you they are scrapped and scavenged junk from a military depo. I have conversed with several other buyers of these inserters. They all told me very similar stories.
Beware of any product being sold by this company especially motorola
equipment.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make sure you post NEG FEEDBACK about it on ebay.
I have 201 POS and no neg or neutrals!

I was also swindled on a Des-xl keyloader by Computer Surplus out of Texarcana, TX.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1346633804

Like saberjerk said, mine too was missing the firmware PROM, the heart of the entire device. Not only that, but this "working when upgraded" KVL had parts audibly shaking around in the case when it arrived!
Plus, since I paid my end (paypal 4/20/02) and recieved the item, I should have recieved their +feedback, right?.. Well, seems they don't do that. I suspect they are waiting for me to blast them with Ebay feedback for sending me bogus equipment. Then, they retaliate with the same on me. Kinda demonstrates that they anticipated my being upset for some reason.
Goes without saying that I'm now in the market for Des-xl keyloader Proms if anyone has any available.

Thanks for your time and don't let it happen to you,
jngl

with PAYPAL you can get your money back via the Online Auction FRAUD dept.
Item was not what was decsribed. Paypal will reverse the money order and take it out of their account even if they have nothing there.

If it has not been too long since you got zapped, you can file with
ebay for a refund with ebay. Items not as represented are covered
by fraud and you can file for up to $200.00 There is a 25.00 deductible
and you have to file within 60 days. You may get your money back and
get them thrown off ebay.
Bob

"but since we do not usaully deal with this kind of product and have no way of testing them We are selling them all AS-IS no guarantee"

Once in a while u get a bad deal on ebay. I have gotten them in the past. The quote above is direct from their auction on the keyloader. Sometimes you take a chance and get burned.

Jason

Also noticed the auction states this radio doesn't come with a battery or ANTENNA.

Maybe so, but they said "we will try to list any missing parts that we notice in the item description."

If it "had parts audibly shaking around in the case, " That would be my first clue that my item is defective or may not be complete. Any Idiot can make that distinction, If a radio rattles inside it is probably not working. DUH!
Still a good case for ebay refunds.
They infered that it was working by the statement;
"We were told the Radios were working when upgraded."
Also, the way the item was listed is in violation of ebay policies. Listing one item and sending a different item than what was listed and/or sending their choice. Since they didn't state:
"Item pictured may not be the one you get" leads one to believe that "the one in the pic is the one you will get".
Online Auctions fall under Federal Law and have certain rules and regs to stay the buyer from fraud.
I would suggest looking into it more deeply or asking for a refund for the above reasons.
They may refund you, to circumvent NEGATIVE FEEDBACK.
Most ebayer's are quite protective of their rating and would refund almost any amount to keep it as high as possible w/o any or the least amount of Neutrals and NEGS as possible.

I have bought a cx t3011 from the same seller but won't have it for a few days. I hope it's not a p.o.s. like some of the others but chances are it will be. My point with the seller would/will be that if they knew the other KVL's were not working they should have put that in the auction. By not telling the buyers that you can only assume they had something to hide ????

Mike

Oh, They know! See how it is listed. The are selling one item per listing, not as a dutch auction. Feedback has not been left yet , but the selling price has been between 87.00 and 265.00!!!!! WOOOW!
I'll bet that the guy that paid 265.00 plus shipping is reeeeaaly going to be pissed off!!!!!!

I paid $255 and $10 shipping.

I won the auction then paid via PayPal then they refunded me the money less paypal fees telling me that the battery could not be found and they have relisted the item. I told them I didn't need the battery and sent the rest of the money back to them via paypal and the deal was done. I have asked the 2 times for feedback with no reply .... I now know why. I'll keep the group updated and if it's a dud we should contact EBay with the very easy to spot scam.

Mike

OUCH!

I have noticed that I bought a MT1000 from them, too. But that was a day or so before this thread came up. We shall see how it is when (if) it arrives in the next few days.
I have 185 unigue POS out of 201 pos and NO neutrals or NEGS!
I have orchestrated the "BOOTING" of bad ebay user's before by getting other scammed buyers of the same seller together and going to eBay as a delegation, I can do it again.
"POWER in Numbers"

My KVL just showed up and what a surprise ... it's missing the eeprom !!

Anyone know how much the cx to dx t3011 upgrade is ??

Mike

This speaks for itself. KNOW YOUR MERCH!!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1351664335



Will

this is what I sent to the seller

dear sir

I bought a Motorola des kvl model # t3011cx. this is missing parts.

this is from the auction,

"Some of the units may have accessories missing , we will try to list
any missing parts that we notice in the item description".

I don't expect inturnal parts to be removed from units unlike batteries
and antennas.

I have been contacted by other auction winner that you have been told of
the missing inturnal eeproms and that you have not posted feedback or
return emails.

what do you expect me to do with this unit ??

I'd like to work this out in a proper manner.

this was their reply

We had no way of knowing this radio was missing parts. We did not open
them up and look in them. As stated in our auction we know nothing about
these. We do not service them. That is why we sold them as is no refund.
If we ever get anymore of these in we might exchange radios with you but
we have no idea when or if we will get anymore.
Thank you
Computer Surplus

I have since put a cx eeprom in the KVL and it works just fine so not a real big deal.

Does anyone want to sell the dx upgrade kit ??? other than Panik who charges wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to much for everything.

Mike

Last time I checked the price for the 3011 CX->DX upgrade direct from Moto was around 170ish. Definitely don't buy it from Panik.

DVPMAN (Mike)

I am curious about something. Are these units used from the government. If they are they probably pulled the firmware prom out to diable the unit. I think they did something similar with the sabers they got rid of. Of course with the sabers they never blanked out the codeplug info.

After replacing the firmware chip in the kvl did it still have the key stored in it. The key is stored in a different eeprom. Just wondering if they blanked it out?

Jason

willbartlett-

I love the "Saber" they are selling! I didn't know that BK cases were exchangable with Saber ones

WEL, WELL, WELL.
I just got the MT1000 i bought from these people and guess what ??????????
HEHEHE, Yeah, you guessed it. The controller board is missing. Just an open case with all the plugs hanging in the air.
SUR FREAKIN PRISE!!!
ANYONE have a controller for an MT1000 VHF h43gcu7100an ??

It had 8 keys still in the memory.

I wonder if they still use the key/s ???

It was a USAF kvl.

Mike

Sounds like you guys should take this to the ebay police. This guy knows what he's doing.

This guy is evidently getting these items though the DRMOs (military surplus) They always pull the eeproms or the controller boards on radios. I got some VHF HT600s from a DRMO one time. They cut out all the IF crystals!
Got some HT1000s...no controller boards. Maxtracs....same.
Be real wary of military surplus stuff. Im bet the computers hes selling don't have hard drives.

WARNING WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER!

Fowler

How Bout you send the guy a mock bomb, (Hell think it's real...)
Send the "bomb" without the batteries in it with a message, saying "put batteries here"
LOL

Sorry, could not resist.

You should contact his local DA office. Also, print out ALL of his current and completed auctions so you have proof. also print all these posts so you have them doccumented in case the board goes down.

It will be a pain in the butt, But you will get your $$ if you pursue it.
Good luck to all who got nailed by him.

Just got an email from another buyer who received his MT1000 also missing the controller board.

you need to notify the ebay police , at least ,and it would be helpfull to leave negetive feedback so other people dont get , e-screwed
even though he will leave negetive feedback for you. but pepole like that give dealing on ebay , or on any other forum a bad name. but thats my opinion..... as narrow as it is...

I have yet to leave feedback.
Why don't we agree on one standard feedback for him and it will be quite in your face as to the crap they are selling. I would not bid on a item from a seller who has 3 bad feedbacks in a row from different users, all with the same problem.

Ideas ???


Mike

Mike-
You nailed it! Everyone one this board that has been ripped off should leave the exact same negative feedback. I too wouldn't buy from a seller with that on their record. Everytime I buy something, even if they only have 1 negative feedback out of 600, I'll look through them and find it, just so I feel safe bidding on it.

You Guys have been stiffed Bad, Idd be leaving neg feedback for this Person But then remember that they may do the same to you if they havnt left feed back for you.

If you paid for the item and they recive payment then they should leave feedback then, ( I get my feedbacks b4 the items ) Sounds like they know you gonna be pissed when you get goods, but they now they can use the leverage of AS - IS . What can you do.

POWER IN NUMBERS sounds good.

Thanks for the warning and sorry To be warned by your misfortune.
Good luck Fellas.


JK
Aust

I'M Ready when you are. Just let me know when you are going to leave feedback. I have 2 in a row for him.

Do you know that you can respond to neg or netural feedback............

Ebay allows you to post a response to neg and netural feed back to explain......... So if they retaliate you can at least respond to that (you only have space for appx 90 characters) so at least you can get the last comment in.

I was thinking about this,

Seller knows that the equipment is missing parts and is dishonest by selling "As-is" when they have been told it's probably junk. BUYER BEWARE.

Please correct any typos.

I must say that the KVL I bought was in very good shape and the replacement eeprom was not a real big deal for me so I'm going to leave the feedback as Neutral only.

Mike

Thanks

saberjerk wrote:I also think there should be an effort to warn other buyers of what is
taking place. There are other auctions on right now by computer-surplus-outlet that I'm sure have missing major components that make it worthless junk.
HT600 and MT1000 controllers are pretty hard to come by nowdays!

At the same time, just make sure you aren't accused of 'auction interference' which is also a violation of Ebay's TOS. By sending an email to a bidder or potential bidder to try and persuade them not to participate in an auction, you'd be walking a fine line. This would definitely be a case of 'It's not what you say, it's how you say it.'

Has anyone received a feedback from the seller, yet?
I have not and I paid immediately after the auction as usual.
My count is 186 unigue 200+ overall and no neg/neuts.
Here is the Emil I sent the seller and he has not responded to me yet.

Subj: Re: Your item has been shipped for Item # 1348128225 - Motorola MT1000 Handie...
Date: 5/9/2002 12:48:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Hi.
If I were you I would list all the items you got from the "Large Corporation" you have recently listed on eBay as "NOT WORKING - Missing parts."
I am the fourth person that has bought your items that frequents batlabs.com that has received Gutted Merchandise. The MT1000 VHF 8 channel radio I bought from you on eBay has no internal parts. The three keyloaders you recently sold also had been gutted. The highest bid was $255.00 for the Des KVL loader. Check here to view complaints about your products.
Batwing Laboratories :: View topic - WARNING WARNING COMPUTER-SURPLUS-OUTLET on

The disclaimer is fine, but you inferred they were in working order by adding the statement "we were told the radios were working when upgraded." Making this statement teeters on Auction Fraud. Just FYI.

I am not real happy with this purchase, since I could have bought a "working radio" like this one for 100.00-150.00 complete w/ battery and antenna. This is the first time I have been burnt on eBay. Probably won't be the last, but I sure won't bid on any more of your auctions. Had the above topic on BATLABS came out before your auction ended I would not have bid on this auction, either.
If you want to work something out on it, I will leave some sort of POS feedback for you, even though you have not left any on my account.
If you don't want to work something out, fine. I am debating on leaving some sort of feedback for you anyway.
Thanks,
T. Freeman
Pierce County SAR 4X4 652
Tactical Area Communications Unit 705
Pierce County, WA

So far no response. Like that's a surprise.

I have just left feedback for these guys.

Mike

http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.d ... lus-outlet

dvpman wrote:It had 8 keys still in the memory.

I wonder if they still use the key/s ???

It was a USAF kvl.

Mike

The eprom stores the keys, so any keys you have in it now came with the eprom you put in it, according to motorola dealer.

This seller got all that gear from the Military DMRO office. They always remove eproms and the controllers from electronics.
From now on there will be no bidding on items with this statement..." we were told they worked when we got them." or "unable to test, sold as-is".

Let's get on with the feedback idea.

I too had bid on one of their key loaders, then I was outbid. After a few days, I was winning again. Then to my suprise, everyone backed out of the auction. I started reading the bid retractions, so I e-mailed the guy. Before I could get a response, I e-mailed one of the retractors. He e-mailed me back warning me of missing parts. Before I could go back and retract, the seller had closed the auction down. He knew what he was doing...
I just looked for the e-mails, but I must have deleted them. I will never buy anything from him, and am thankful for the retractor that let me know what was going on.
Scott

Hey Scott,

I was the bid just behind yours. I was watching the auction and saw your retraction and got the same e-mail, I had no choice and did the same. My friend a few days later bought 3 KVL's from the same guy and guess what ????? they had major parts missing... what a surprise.

Mike

PS wheres the feedback for computer-surplus ???

come on guys.

Please check out for info on scammers
http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=11478

Suggestion:

I read some of his feedback and the feedback of the buyers.

DONT POST NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FOR THIS GUY UNTIL YOU HAVE GOTTEN FEEDBACK FROM HIM. He will wait and if you give him - feedback he will do the same to you. Wait until he gives you + feedback and give him -.

Obviously the way this guy stays out of eBay's investigative view is that he does not get too involved in Feedback. It looks to me as if he's a prime candidate for being kicked off eBay due to what appears to be continuing misreprentation of facts. I ran into a similar situation with a guy on eBay about a year ago. I really wanted an item, and for some reason I was the only bidder, and the seller cancelled the auction, claiming he didn't actually have the item to sell (#1 reason to boot him off). When I foolishly put up a negative feedback comment about him he retaliated in kind, claiming harassment and God know what else. This really got to me, so I called in the eBay Investigations people, who apologized to me for what had happened, deleted the negative feedback against me, and booted the guy off the eBay board. Of course, we all know that this does little good, since all these crooks to is to re-register under a new name.

Lesson: DON'T post negative feedback unless you're so frustrated that you absolutely must do so, and DO remember that if the deal seems to good to be true then it probably is. And last but not least, read the seller's feedback before you bid.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

I just received one of these Keyloaders today. It was just what I expected. The auction photos claerly showed bent/damaged board interconnect pins and the empty firmware socket. I paid approx $28.00--although I had seen others go for $60.00+. I need one for DVP, so I was going to change the firmware anyway. For 28.00 bucks it was worth the gamble.

I noticed most of these postings were from May--so maybe they weren't being to revealing with their photos back then. In all fairness to the seller and my transaction with them--I got just what I expected. If the photos from the auction last Spring did not reveal what the current listings do--you guys have a legit beef. If they're the same as they are now--well the best lessons in life are the ones you pay dearly for.

They did have pics in may. mine had a nice pic of a good looking radio. Nothing inside and I resold it on ebay with that in the description - no internal parts - for parts only - no controller board".
He gets his stuff from MILITARY SURPLUS. I talked to the DRMO guys at Ft. Lewis and they told me as far as radio stuff goes, the controllers and or crystals are removed PRIOR to sale.
When he says "LARGE CORPORATION" he means Military Surplus.

Keep that in mind.

Todd ebay id sniperp229 (207)