Hide-A-Way's or TIR3's?

[firefighter27]

Hi. I am getting a '97 lexus ES 300 shortly, and have a hard decision to make. I am a volunteer firefighter, so I will be installing blue lights in the lexus. My problem is I want something that is as close to completely invisible as possible, provides great warning power, is easy to install (i have never installed any emergency lighting myself before, and i want to do it myself), and can fit a budget of around $250 max. My two main choices are:

1.) Two(2) Whelen TIR3's (both blue), grille mounting brackets, and a switch. The TIR3's would go in my grille.

2.) A (probably whelen) hide-a-way strobe kit with 4 tubes which all have to be blue (tubes, wires, power supply, switch, etc...)

My main question is which one of these options is better for my need? Pros and cons of each? Any other ideas? Thanks for your help!!!

[alex]

I honestly wouldn't bother with colored tubes... they hardly give off what their color is really supposed to be, and they usually degrade the performance of the strobes themselves.

Have you looked in to how hard running strobe cable throughout your vehicle might be? Foreign cars are a pain in the ass. Do you have enough clearance for the strobe tupe and heat disapation from the strobe firing? Melting of the lenses in there might be a serious concern.

Not trying to burst your strobe bubble, however, I don't want to see you damage your lenses on your car....

-Alex

[tvsjr]

You don't want to go with the strobe option unless you like sky-blue faded-out lights that barely show. Also, for $250, you're not going to get a high-wattage strobe pack, so you may as well write that off.

Personally, I think nothing more than a pair of TIR3s in the grille is fairly irresponsible. If you're planning on actually running with them, you need at least something in the grille, something angled out for intersections, a dash light (Talon dual), and wigwags if allowed. You also need something similar to the rear (pair of Talon duals in the rear window, maybe a couple of TIR3s on a license plate bracket).

Perhaps you need to save for awhile and put at least a minimally sufficient emergency lighting package in all at once?

Not trying to burst your bubble... just my $.02.

[ESDA20]

Also, for $250, you're not going to get a high-wattage strobe pack, so you may as well write that off.

Not true.

http://www.vlsusa.com/cgi-bin/vlsusa/S6 ... d=EUGJG9SI, Hugh, for $204.

http://www.lshlights.net/catalog/2__90_ ... 118459.htm, LSHlights for $199.

Unless you're looking for a MEGAPOWERSUPER powersupply, strobe kits aren't that badly priced.

[firefighter27]

I'm only a volunteer firefighter, so i just need the lights when responding to calls. And like I said, I don't want people to see the lights when off if possible. Do you think i need more lights than 2 TIR3's in the grille for that? Are they visible enough?

[keeper1616]

I'm only a volunteer firefighter, so i just need the lights when responding to calls. And like I said, I don't want people to see the lights when off if possible. Do you think i need more lights than 2 TIR3's in the grille for that? Are they visible enough?

I would go with a dash or headliner mount light over grille lights any day...(they're the same height as the drivers head, instead of 2+ feet below...)

Have you looked at the whelen dual talons? Mount one on the headliner or on the dash, and you'll be set.

[Cheeko]

Hi all

I think personaly you should be running with more than just 2 grille lights. I did a unmarked car recently for a doctor that had done extended driver training to allow him to run on blues different rules over here in the uk but basicly his install was as follows

2 Blue TIR3( customer provided ) That went in the grille
You can see them as there mounted in cut outs if you mount behind the grill you tend to loose alot of light especialy out of a small unit like the TIR3

Blue Strobe Dash Light would have gone for a Talon if given the chance this was mounted up by the mirror so was nice and high up

Whelen headlight flasher unit as you can see headlights flashing a long way before you will see the blue in alot of cases

Rear was take care of with another set of Blue Microlights mounted up against the headliner

Audio was a whelen alpha siren on horn ring

Wish I had taken pics now I got collard to do it while on holiday and fitted it in during a bit of time over the weekend while putting away the beer flaming something dead on the barbi and having a good old time.

Mounted Switches in the blanks on the dash so all he had to do was nip down the breakers yard and pick some up and you wold never know.

Im not that familer with the grille on the lexus but going to have a look and see what I think might work better for you, and I agree with the other few foreign cars are a royal pain in the butt and strobe cables are thick and can be a bugger to route, and again the strobes can sit close to the lens and if there plastic they will melt after a while .

Hope this helps you out.

All the best
Paul

[KuhnElectronics]

I am going to concur with the others 100%.NO BLUE STROBES..Granted that TIR3's are some pretty good LED's, they are basically secondary lighting.

You say you want them well hidden, and from your previous post you are looking at putting them behind the grille? Therefore you are already reducing their warning power by a large percent.

If you have $250, spend it wisely. I would totally reccomend a dual talon in the dash, which you can get for just a little over $200, and a set of two TIR3's with a license plate mount as earlier mentioned, those you can get for about $100-$150 depedning on who you get them from...

Dont place a price on your safety, along with others you can possibly endanger in public. Take some time and save money and do it right... Spending $500 on a complete emergency warning system seems smarter to me then paying thousands plus to replace someones car, or even paying the family of someone you injured/killed. It does happen.

my .02

[apco25]

Dash strobe or LED
2 Grill LEDs
6 outlet strobe system - 2 front corner lights, 4 strobes in rear tail lights. all CLEAR tubes. Use the available lenses in the rear to give you desired color, amber, red or clear is usually back there depending on vehicle.
Rear deck (if you think you need it) LED like a two single talons or one dual talon center mounted.

Headlight flasher if applicable under your state's vehicle code.

[tvsjr]

Also, for $250, you're not going to get a high-wattage strobe pack, so you may as well write that off.

Not true.

http://www.vlsusa.com/cgi-bin/vlsusa/S6 ... d=EUGJG9SI, Hugh, for $204.

http://www.lshlights.net/catalog/2__90_ ... 118459.htm, LSHlights for $199.

Unless you're looking for a MEGAPOWERSUPER powersupply, strobe kits aren't that badly priced.

Oops, my bad. Guess the prices have come down since I last checked. The newest truck is all LED (except for the wig-wags) so I haven't looked at strobe packs in a few months.

[tvsjr]

One thing to think about in the question of how many lights to have: LIABILITY.

If you get in a wreck (like, you ass-end someone or T-bone someone in an intersection), you'll be placed under a microscope. Things like inadequate lighting aren't looked at kindly. You really don't want to be on the receiving end of such an inquisition.

At a minimum:
Dual LED on the dash (as high as possible... above the rearview is my preference if at all possible)
Two grille lights (I'd look at a 400, 500, or 600-series Whelen... TIR3s are pretty tiny to go behind the grille)
Two intersection lights (TIR3 at least... usually I mount these on the grille guard...)
Wig-wags
Dual LED on the rear deck (I prefer a pair... dual Talons)

I'm not a big fan of strobes anymore... many of the light housing are near-impossible to mount tubes in, the warning is secondary only, they're fairly expensive, high current draw, big cable to route, etc.

If you don't do covert strobes, think about leaving your 4-ways running when at a scene. It's a few more blinkies.

[afterimage84]

Firefighter27- Don't fall into the liability trap and think you have to get all these lights all over your car. the LIABILITY falls on YOU, and YOU alone as you have the responsibility to operate your vehicle with DUE REGARD at all times. You can have all the lights in the world and no one cares. You have to drive VERY defensively, period. All this yip yap about "minimums" and the like is garbage. Dash light and be done with it. Spinner, Talon, what have you. What you can afford when you can afford it. Don't let yourself be scared into thinking you have to buy all these lights to be legal. In fact, one state away from you (NJ) says vollies can have how many lights? what is the wattage allowed? 51 watts?

Look, it is really simple, you are the operator and you are responsible for yourself and the safety of the motoring public. Remember lights just draw attention to what you are doing right or wrong. The more you have, the more attention you will draw...positive AND negative. You have the responsibility and you alone. Generally vollies in a POV responding to a call with lights are not granted any special privileges. Take an EVOC class, LEARN what to look for, drive with due regard. "Arrive alive" they say... Assume they don't see you until proven otherwise.

That being said, I expect the flames from all the sparks, slappers, whackers and wannabees to be pretty high... Have at it.

[Duke]

Check out NYS V&T law regarding flashing lights. Sect 375, P41. sub 4 http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/pdf/srgvat.pdf
before you do anything. They talk about ONE blue flashing light as being allowed. In the real world I don't see any of your local cops bothering you for excess lights but I would worry about the lawyer for the lady who's SUV full of kids got in an accident with you while you were responding.

[Glenn]

Here goes those volunteers again. As a volunteer with 34 years in New York, I can't understand using all those lights. Our blue lights are considered courtesy lights...nothing more. As the law reads, we are supposed to display one light. All this at a time when emergency vehicles(ambulances) are running less lights and sirens. Sure, we all want our vehicles to look cool.....but they don't buy you anything when it comes to the V&T laws.

[PhillyPhoto]

I'd suggest going for something along the lines of the Whelen LED Flatlighter:



It mounts right to your visor, and obviously invisible when not in use. This would fit into your budget also. I wouldn't let people get to you about twenty lights in your car. Just make sure you focus on the road while you drive, and you shouldn't have a problem.

[c17loadsmasher]

Good rules of thumb for lighting...

• a - put enough in there that you don't get killed
  b - meet or exceed all applicable state and local codes
  c - don't go whack-tastic on it

Look at it realistically - in today's world where kids are riding in their ricers with fart cans and stereos they may not hear your siren (if you can have 'em in NY), and they're not paying attention. Make your vehicle visible so that you can be seen and so that you can safely respond. No use in risking your own life.

As far as those of you who reside in states where your warning lights are 'courtesy' lights...I feel badly for you...the frustration must really suck. In SC a properly (legally) equipped vehicle has all the rights of the engine, the ambulance, or the police car. Do they yield...not all the time....but at least they're supposed to!

[afterimage84]

I'd suggest going for something along the lines of the Whelen LED Flatlighter:

It mounts right to your visor, and obviously invisible when not in use. This would fit into your budget also. I wouldn't let people get to you about twenty lights in your car. Just make sure you focus on the road while you drive, and you shouldn't have a problem.

good light, not in his budget if he needs it in blue...

[irsa]

Jeez,what about the good old mag mount halogen rotator on the roof? To be honest some covert/low profile installs are almost dangerous with the lack of warning they provide. I came across a traffic stop a couple of weeks ago with an unmarked ACT, Canberra Australia, detective unit equipped with a dash strobe, slim line deck stobes and head light and back up light flashers. Even directly behind the car I could barely see the deck lights, and I was looking for them. Another courier started to abuse them for stopping on a corner when the cop flashed his badge to inform him he was a cop. Yet a couple of days later I went past another incident and there was another unmarked police car with the good old mag mount rotator. Could see it very clearly yet when not in use you would never know it was there. Granted some lights, those without the rubber base, will scratch the paint if you're not careful.