Tone Remoting by unconventional means

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:34 pm

I'm poor, and want to tone remote my home radio to school, some 40 miles away.

I can't lease-line because that's absurd, I can't phone-patch it because I don't have a land-line at home and the land-line here at school doesn't dial-out.

So, KC8RYW and I were talking about a work-around, and it seemed like an option was a Linksys VOIP device, which emulates a phone jack but uses the internet to link the two places, as well as a computer running some sort of server software for a private PBX... now, that certainly makes it so the phone patch idea can work but... tone remoting is more fun!

Is it possible to emulate a lease-line type service using the internet via Cat5/LAN conditions?

If that's a no-go, then I'm out of ideas, I'm on a tight budget and for use in a setup that will last through next May and then from next August- December, and thenafter... who knows.

I want to use a basic 2-wire tone remote interface, so a bi-directional audio path is all that's needed, but one with the fidelity to pass the nearly sub-audible hold tones, etc... you know typical tone remoting stuff!

-Josh

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:16 pm

Not to add to your issues, but if you are going to remotely control a radio that is 40 miles away, how are you going to comply with the license requirement of monitoring the frequency before transmitting in order not to cause any impermissible interference with a co-channel user?

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:12 pm

RKG wrote:Not to add to your issues, but if you are going to remotely control a radio that is 40 miles away, how are you going to comply with the license requirement of monitoring the frequency before transmitting in order not to cause any impermissible interference with a co-channel user?

Well my friend, since most of the frequencies I use are CSQ, it's hard not to monitor. Sheesh

Now how about a helpful solution?

-Josh

olderookie · Post by **olderookie** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:07 pm

DINGO TEL

cheap and easy

Post by **wavetar** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:10 am

Are you firm on wanting to use a tone remote? /\/\y2cents has a computer based software program that'll control your radio via the internet/LAN from whatever computer you install it on. It requires a small interface box from the radio to a low-end computer at your home (or high-end, whatever you have to hook up to it), and an internet connection. The software installs on a computer at your school. I don't know prices, but I know he's always looking for people to help with demoing the product. Maybe send him a PM.

Otherwise, there are other 'big name' products that'll do the same (Vega, for instance) but the price tag is high.

Todd

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:42 am

wavetar wrote:Are you firm on wanting to use a tone remote? /\/\y2cents has a computer based software program that'll control your radio via the internet/LAN from whatever computer you install it on. It requires a small interface box from the radio to a low-end computer at your home (or high-end, whatever you have to hook up to it), and an internet connection. The software installs on a computer at your school. I don't know prices, but I know he's always looking for people to help with demoing the product. Maybe send him a PM.

Otherwise, there are other 'big name' products that'll do the same (Vega, for instance) but the price tag is high.

Todd

I could get in contact with him, but he'd have to offer me one heck of a deal. I have looked at his website before and it looks cool and everything but the problem is that I've already got the tone remote and radio adaptor, being old Command Series stuff, they were inexpesive... the deskset I've even had for quite a while.

-Josh

k2hz · Post by **k2hz** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:49 am

I believe that tone remote is going to be difficult with VOIP so you need to look for an IP radio control program as Wavetar suggested.

Tone remote requires a continuous hold tone and critical levels and timing of secure-it and function tones. I think it would be very difficult to set up a VOIP circuit to handle this effectively. A radio control program designed for an IP connection should be much more stable.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:22 am

You can do tone remotes over IP, but you can't use any old network - you have to have control over QoS etc, and you won't be getting that at school.

spareparts · Post by **spareparts** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:10 pm

Not to tinkle on your parade, but I just went through this using "demonstration" Cisco routers with the LMR IOS load. Works great until you start dropping packets due to QOS issues.

I could control the QOS while it was on our network, but as soon as hit the VPN over the public internt to the remote site it went to hell quickly.

An RTNA for my application was $190.00 a month. A dedicated T1 with a CIR and QOS level was nearing the $500.00 mark. Keep in mind I would have needed to buy a pair specialized routers to boot. We went with the RTNA and have not looked back.

Martin

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:37 pm

spareparts wrote:Not to tinkle on your parade
Martin

I don't mind rain on my parade, but tinkling is definitly crossing the line !!

All kidding aside though, obviously my grand idea isn't going to work out.

Since I have a Zetron Model 30 phone patch, and another on the way, I think I am going to work with the idea of dialing it up when I need it and using traditional phone circuits and cell phones.

After a night of using this type of operation under heavy ducting conditions (tonight), it has become apparent that I need a way of enabling/disabling scan and/or channel steering and I think that using DTMF over the phone line to control channel steering functionality by turning circuits on and off in a DTMF decoder, it leaves me to wonder if such a device exists.

I guess it needs to have about 6 leads on it and decode/activate certain lines to properly steer channels and enable/disable mike on-hook/ MONitor, etc.

Any ideas?

-Josh

PETNRDX · Post by **PETNRDX** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:04 am

You might be able to do what you want with a pair of JPS NXU-2's if you can find a pair cheap.

Post by **/\/\y 2 cents** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:10 am

Josh check your PM's, I have equipment that will do what you are needing to do.

Steve

w4rez · Post by **w4rez** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:41 am

RKG wrote:Not to add to your issues, but if you are going to remotely control a radio that is 40 miles away, how are you going to comply with the license requirement of monitoring the frequency before transmitting in order not to cause any impermissible interference with a co-channel user?

Monitor function tone?

From my tone remote manual:

When a function command is initiated at the console (such as PL Monitor, Receiver 2 on-off etc.) the tone encoder board generates a 115 mS high level guard tone followed by a 40 mS function tone. The function tone frequency generated is dependent upon the function selected.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:48 pm

That wasn't the issue I was trying to raise. Controlling a transmitter from a distance way beyond the service area of the transmitter means that you probably won't be able to hear any co-channel traffic and, therefore, won't be able to monitor in order to avoid keying over that traffic. That is why the FCC regs generally prohibit distant control except where one has licensed an exclusive frequency. However, in view of the response I got, I decided to move on to other things.

440roadrunner · Post by **440roadrunner** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:57 pm

Josh, are you a member of ARRL?

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/internet.html

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/linkremote.html

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:29 pm

440roadrunner wrote:Josh, are you a member of ARRL?

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/internet.html

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/linkremote.html

This remote functioning isn't just for ham frequencies, but mostly business RX, I'd like to avoid having a dedicated computer where possible, but I think the phone patch option is what's going to work.

-Josh