Spectra vs. CDM 1250

[tgbrengel]

Hello everyone. My name is Tom, and I'm new here. I need some input on radios.

I currently have three Motorola Spectra A5 radios (two VHF and one UHF) in my car for work. I purchased the radios used on Ebay and they work fine however they are becoming temperature sensitive (when its cold they power up but will turn off until the car is warm).

I will be receiving a new Crown Vic in February and would like to update the equipment. Some agencies in our area have purchased the CDM 150 radio and I really like the clean look and big alphanumeric display. I would like to purchase the radios to replace the spectras however, I have not heard how well the CDM 1250's work and alot of people say to stick with the spectras as they are durable radios. One radio tech. I ran into said that the spectra will be obsolete in a few years when rebanning takes place (I didnt know it would affect VHF and UHF).

What I am asking...would purchasing CDM 1250's be a smart move to replace my spectra a5 radios? I would like a cleaner look for the console in the new squad but do not want to compromise reliability (except when its cold).

Please let me know what you think. If anyone is selling CDM 1250's I would like to talk with you to price a couple units out. Also, if anyone is looking for some spectras, let me know!

I appreciate your time!

[Jim202]

Well a couple of points here. one the Spectra radios were not made to do the narrow band
channels that some agencies are starting to implement. All the VHF channels will have to be
changed to narrow band operation by 2013. In most cases this will mean a replacement of
most of the older radios being used.

Point, the CDM radios can use the windows version of the RSS. This means that you don't
have to maintain an old clunker of a computer to program your radios with. You can and
do have to use Windows to run the Motorola RSS programming.

Point, the Spectra radios are at the age where the electrolytic caps are failing and need to
be replaced. If they start to leak their chemical out, it will cause board damage. This may
be what your starting to see happen with your radios. It takes a couple to 3 hours or so
of bench time to repair and replace the old caps. Don't take the radios to a Motorola
shop unless you have a bunch of money to blow away.

Point, depending on the control head on the spectra radios, you may or may not have
an alpha numeric display on the head. The CDM will allow you to program what you
want the head to display on a per channel basis. Programming the CDM radio can be
a challenge if you haven't done it before. The scan and zone windows will drive you
crazy the first couple of times you try your hand at the programming.

Point, the CDM radios are smaller, lighter and in many people's eyes, they look much better.

Jim

Hello everyone. My name is Tom, and I'm new here. I need some input on radios.

I currently have three Motorola Spectra A5 radios (two VHF and one UHF) in my car for work. I purchased the radios used on Ebay and they work fine however they are becoming temperature sensitive (when its cold they power up but will turn off until the car is warm).

I will be receiving a new Crown Vic in February and would like to update the equipment. Some agencies in our area have purchased the CDM 150 radio and I really like the clean look and big alphanumeric display. I would like to purchase the radios to replace the spectras however, I have not heard how well the CDM 1250's work and alot of people say to stick with the spectras as they are durable radios. One radio tech. I ran into said that the spectra will be obsolete in a few years when rebanning takes place (I didnt know it would affect VHF and UHF).

What I am asking...would purchasing CDM 1250's be a smart move to replace my spectra a5 radios? I would like a cleaner look for the console in the new squad but do not want to compromise reliability (except when its cold).

Please let me know what you think. If anyone is selling CDM 1250's I would like to talk with you to price a couple units out. Also, if anyone is looking for some spectras, let me know!

I appreciate your time!

[RKG]

I agree and add the following:

Spectras have a quirk, if you use priority scan and have co-channel activity on the priority channel. Spectra will stop on the priority channel for the duration of the co-channel traffic, with activity light on but audio muted. You miss anything that comes over the non-priority members.

CDMs fix this by a later feature called "Channel Marking."

Spectras that are not zonable have only one scan list per radio. Zonable Spectras have one scan list per zone. CDMs permit, at least in theory, one scan list per channel. (You'll run out of memory at some theoretical point, but the point is that you can be far more flexible in planning your scan functions.)

CDMs do not map the radio's serial number, so there is no need for a "clone" function, which in the Spectra can be quite quirky. With CDMs, so long as the archive codeplug is for a radio with the same features, you can write it directly into any other radio of same model and feature set.

The "knock" some folks put on CDMs is that "they are not public safety grade radios." True or not, I know an awful lot of Fire Departments that use them in all apparatus, and they've stood up just fine.

[Grog]

the CDM radios are smaller, lighter and in many people's eyes, they look much better.

As far as being lighter, well the car is carrying the radio, so I don't think that's much of an issue. Plus I think the CDM series looks like a ham radio, and I don't mean that as a compliment. I never thought the non-A9 head spectras were sexy with that god awful mic connector, just looks silly.

[MT2000 man]

I had a Spectra (UHF with an A7 head) in my truck for several years. When I sold my truck, I also took the Spectra out, and sold that as well. I have since bought a new truck, with a new mobile . . . . I bought a CDM1550. I think it is a GREAT radio. It does everything under the sun, is durable, nice BIG display, and does things that the Spectra could only dream of doing. I would get another CDM in a heartbeat if I needed another Mobile radio. Many of the local Police / Fire departments around here are upgrading their Spectra's to CDM's as well.

Great radio, you should go for it !

[jackhackett]

One thing to think about on the CDM1250 is the front panel buttons... there are only 4 programmable ones on the radio, and usually you'd use up 2 of those for the menu functions. If you need more look into the enhanced keypad mic, which gives you 3 more programmable ones, or the CDM1550.

[PhillyPhoto]

I think the most important part of the spectras is there rf board. It is the most sensitive, and best built one I've ever dealt with. If you have the money, there's always the XTL5000s

Another option that you might consider is the MCS2000 series. The model 3s have 2 line displays, so you have the zone named and the channel named. Also, there are more buttons for more options. Just something to consider.

[Rayjk110]

One thing I always liked about the CDM series is the fact that there's an rf pre-amp in these radios, which is why they tend to receive so well (unlike having to pay for the W12 option on the XTLxxxx mobiles).

I think they'd stand just fine in Public Safety and whatnot. They're actually sealed by rubber gaskets around the head and on the metal cover plate on top of the radio which is actually held on with by screws! [seen when you take off the top plastic cover] A local FD here has a hanful in service, as well as a few local Police Departments. Having owned 5 of these at different times, I've had no big issues with them. They're excellent radios.

[smk8er]

I have a CDM1550 In my patrol car now for 4 years and no issues at all (even in the freezing Pennsylvania winters). Also have a CDM1250 in one patrol boat and a spectra in the other. The Spectra is being replaced by a cdm1250 due to the spectra starting to fail. The one CDM1250 that is in one patrol boat has been there for three years and has had no issues what so ever,

[wavetar]

While they are not considered the same tier of radio, the CDM is an adequate replacement for a Spectra in many cases. It is technically the replacement for the Maxtrac series, which was and still is used extensively by public safety. The chassis rigidity and heatsinking are superior to the Maxtrac, and the sealing is far better, considering the Maxtrac had none! The CDM had a rough introduction to the marketplace, as did it's Waris portable counterparts, due to being released with what most would consider to be beta hardware & firmware platforms at best. However that was 7 or 8 years ago. Units built in the last 5-6 years anyway are very stable & hold up very well.The main weakness with them is the RF power amplifier...but guess what, the same weakness exists with the top-tier XTL5000 as well! Motorola simply cannot seem to manufacture or otherwise source an ultra-reliable RF PA for any of it's models anymore.

Todd

[Garyf629]

While they might not considered the same "Tier" as a Spectra, the CDM 1550's have become the choice to replace most Spectra's used by public safety. (The Motorola snobs will flame me over that statement.)

In our area we have replaced a lot of Spectra's and even 6 - 10 dual head MCS-2000's with the 1550's. The only things that the CDM's do not support that the higher tier radios do is encryption, and 110 watts. The windows based software is also an improvement, no more looking for, or trying to maintain an ancient laptop for programing. If only they would come out with USB programing cables!

By the way, I just did what you want to do. I replaced a A-7 VHF and an A-9 UHF Spectra with CDM-1550's. For the minimal extra cost go for the 1550's.

[Jim202]

First of all, the Spectra radio can have a scan list for each channel. It can be made to
have zones. You need to use the 9000 type head to get the zone feature. The scan
list per channel is available with even the HHCH (A3).

I have a number of the Spectra radios in service with the HHCH. They all are programmed
with the scan on a per channel basis. You get to have 16 channels in each scan list.
Not sure how the other heads work on scan, but have never had a problem with the HHCH
as you describe. They also don't have this problem when used with the 9000 control
head. Another feature that the 9000 head brings is you can extend the channel capacity
out to 128 channels with the 9000 head. Have one in my truck right now.

Jim

I agree and add the following:

Spectras have a quirk, if you use priority scan and have co-channel activity on the priority channel. Spectra will stop on the priority channel for the duration of the co-channel traffic, with activity light on but audio muted. You miss anything that comes over the non-priority members.

CDMs fix this by a later feature called "Channel Marking."

Spectras that are not zonable have only one scan list per radio. Zonable Spectras have one scan list per zone. CDMs permit, at least in theory, one scan list per channel. (You'll run out of memory at some theoretical point, but the point is that you can be far more flexible in planning your scan functions.)

CDMs do not map the radio's serial number, so there is no need for a "clone" function, which in the Spectra can be quite quirky. With CDMs, so long as the archive codeplug is for a radio with the same features, you can write it directly into any other radio of same model and feature set.

The "knock" some folks put on CDMs is that "they are not public safety grade radios." True or not, I know an awful lot of Fire Departments that use them in all apparatus, and they've stood up just fine.

[Garyf629]

Another feature that the 9000 head brings is you can extend the channel capacity out to 128 channels with the 9000 head. Have one in my truck right now.

All the control head versions (A4,A5,A7,A9 etc.....) do 128 channels.

[com501]

If you replace your Spectra with a CDM, you are stuck with the basic radio functions.

XTL mobiles are flash upgradeable should you need something newer or fancier. If you deal AT ALL with any US agency and need to talk to them in the future, you will need P25, so that kicks the CDM to the curb, as well as encryption. The CDM does LTR trunking, when ordered correctly, but pretty useless option if your department or county decides to go trunked.

Just remember, if you decide to downgrade by substituting a CDM for a Spectra, once you change radio tier, you are stuck with the limitations of that tier.

XTLs come in all flavors.

There's your change for that nickel....

Basically, SPECTRA=Public Safety, MAXTRAC=Consumer (Business & Industry)
XTL Series=Public Safety, CDM =Consumer

[wavetar]

If you replace your Spectra with a CDM, you are stuck with the basic radio functions.

Basically, SPECTRA=Public Safety, MAXTRAC=Consumer (Business & Industry)
XTL Series=Public Safety, CDM =Consumer

Granted, P25 & Digital encryption are not in the CDM portfolio, but...how can you consider it a "basic" radio? Especially the 1550, it does more than most other radios, of any manufacturer! Pretty much every MDC feature Motorola offers, even Emergency receive and message decode. Programmable accessory pin outputs which you can map to a front button, remote channel steering capable, up to 190 member alias list, programmable clock with alarm...you name it, it pretty much does it. Not to mention plug & play with Trident AVL, both conventional & LTR/Passport. Plug & play with several different manufacturers of analog encryption boards. All for a fraction of the cost of an XTL.

[com501]

Wavetar,

[Grog]

Granted that the CDM does all those things, but anyone using one for their job should consider that almost every agency will be using P25 to some extent if not now, but very soon, especially fire departments.

Ok, I need to change my shorts now. Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight

[com501]

What's

[MT2000 man]

Depends a lot on where you live. Here in CT the State Police are 800MHZ P25 Digital, some Police frequencies are trunked, but all of my local towns (Manchester, etc.) are all UHF NON digital, and are not going P25 any time soon (at least to my knowledge anyway). All the departments around here at one time almost ALL the patrol cars had Spectra's (some even had Astro Spectras), however, they are all slowly being phased out by . . . . . gasp the CDM series !!! I have owned my share of Spectra's, they are SUPER radios, very reliable, etc. However I also agree in my opinion, that the CDM series is a great radio as well, and will make / is a great public safety radio. Having owned both, I would choose my CDM1550 over any of my Spectras. Motorola did a good job in designing the CDM series.

[AEC]

The CDM1250's and 1550's are great radios, and are very well shielded as the main point.

The second as pointed out, is their 'quircky' method of mapping zones and channels.

As for public safety grade, they hold up quite well, in fact, even the local mining companies have several and are very happy with the way the radios can be personalized through button arrnagements, scanning, call channels and 'home' channels.

Small footprint, fully enclosed RF section, and ease of remote mounting make the CDM a natural selection for cost savings.

Not to mention that I believe you can also add a second control head to a single radio as there is a header assy. under the main board behind the panel and it's marked with a plastic tab that indicates this.

We haven't had a need to try this, but from outward appearances, it looks as if it is quite possbile to add a second head.

At least they are not as difficult to program as the XTL2500 portables are!

As for the archiving and cloning...simply set up all your channels and save the original CP data, then write to all the radios in the fleet, then you can also simply read each radio and save it under its own serial number should you so desire.

I set up the front panels like this:

SCAN, MONITOR, HOME. Leaving P4 assigned to future use aside from disply backlight levels.

[RadioSouth]

Wow, glad to see a current model that's received widespread BatBoard approval. Took a look at the CDM's when they 1st came out, looked good but I kept my distance due to all the problems that were going on with the portable end of the line. Anyone have any experience with these in the HOT climates ?
(I'm in need of a UHF mobile and my car stays outside in the FL sun reaching over 130 inside a good part of the summer).

[Garyf629]

Granted that the CDM does all those things, but anyone using one for their job should consider that almost every agency will be using P25 to some extent if not now, but very soon, especially fire departments.

I am active in a program whose main goal is to inspire high school students to pursue career's in science and technology. I serve on a committee with one of the Sr. VP's of Motorola's LMR divisions. Last spring we got into a lunchtime discussion about the future of P25. Moto is very disappointed with how P25 has been received. Most P25 systems have been bought by the Federal Government, (Federal Agencies, and the Military) or by the use of Federal grants as a result of 9/11. Comments were made that without 9/11, and the grants there would be far less P25 systems than there is today. P25 will not be universally accepted until radios like the CDM's are P25 capable, at the current price point.

One of the discussions that we got into was how much was marketing driving the costs of P25. Are they hoping that the FCC will force everyone to go digital, just like they are forcing everyone to upgrade to HDTV in FEB 2009, and narrow band by 2013? It was agreed by other engineers that were in on this discussion (These are some of the top engineers in the country holding 100's of patents.) that it is cheaper to make a digital radio than an analog. Reluctantly even the guy from Motorola agreed.

Here in the Northeast, the only major P25 system is the Connecticut State Police, there are a few others but they are limited to a few municipalities, that got federal grants. The State of New Hampshire got a Federal grant to update their State Police & Fire systems. But since the grant is over, now the smaller towns need to buy more equipment and can't afford it. Most wish they never changed, and want to go back to narrow band analog.

Here in Northern Connecticut there is a small town PD that got sold on going P25 by the local Motorola Reps. with a Federal grant. The out of pocket cost to the town was a little over $100K over 2 years. They tried to bury the costs in their budget without going to the town for funding for a new system. When they turned on the system, and everyones scanners went silent, there was quite the uproar. The Selectmen and the Police Commission were voted out of office, and the P25 was turned off. They are now a narrow band analog system.

The long and short of this post is: CDM's are very good radios, the only reason they do not do P25 is Motorola is forcing you to buy their higher tier radios if you want this option. And by no means is everyone nation wide progressing towards P25, unless the FCC forces us.

[com501]

Perhaps that is one of the reasons that Motorola bought Vertex/Standard.

Your new 'Vertarola' radio will probably do P25. Or maybe AMBE instead.

This is nothing new with Motorola. Perhaps those of you in the business long enough will remember the HT600 vs P200 hoopla.

[escomm]

What's so funny, Greg? Every repeater here in NV that BLM has is now P25. They are gonna switch over sometime before fire season next year. They are dual mode right now. ALL mobiles are P25.

Story County is now all P25 ready, including the Quantars we just installed, and they are switching after the first of the year (except the FD, can you guess why?)

Jeez, the FD is not using P25? You mean to say that P25 is still not ready for interoperable mission critical first response firefighting applications despite it being on the market for about 10 years? (did I miss any buzzwords???)

I think we see why Grog was laughing so hard....

Also, it's irresponsible to compare the feds to genuine public safety organizations. BLMs primary firefighting tactic is to let the fires burn themselves out. Since they are not spending money fighting fires or hiring employees, they have to protect next year's appropriation by draining this year's budget on equipment they do not need...

[KC9LEA]

I am a big fan of the Spectra and Astro Spectra. I believe it was said in an earlier post if you can drop the money get the XTL5000. Thats what out Fire Department just upgraded to and it is the same A7 head as on the Spectra

[Garyf629]

I am a big fan of the Spectra and Astro Spectra. I believe it was said in an earlier post if you can drop the money get the XTL5000. Thats what out Fire Department just upgraded to and it is the same A7 head as on the Spectra

I think everyone here agrees that the Spectra's are/were great radios for their time. The big question today is: Why spend the big money for a radio, when you can get one for 1/2 (if not less) the cost, that is just as reliable, has as many/if not more features? (most of which you will never use)

In this day of tight municipal budgets, and high tax rates, are we fulfilling our fiscal responsibilities (to our towns/cities, neighbors, and ourselves) by purchasing more radio than we will ever use? Who is benefiting from these purchases?

[Grog]

I think everyone here agrees that the Spectra's are/were great radios for their time. The big question today is: Why spend the big money for a radio, when you can get one for 1/2 (if not less) the cost, that is just as reliable, has as many/if not more features? (most of which you will never use)

In this day of tight municipal budgets, and high tax rates, are we fulfilling our fiscal responsibilities (to our towns/cities, neighbors, and ourselves) by purchasing more radio than we will ever use? Who is benefiting from these purchases?

/\/\

[dirtrat]

We've already started rebanding in California and the Spectras are getting replaced by XTL-2500's so I guess Nextel and Motorola would disagree with you! I'm sure if they thought the CDM-1550 was an equivilant model radio they would use it considering the difference in the cost.

While they might not considered the same "Tier" as a Spectra, the CDM 1550's have become the choice to replace most Spectra's used by public safety. (The Motorola snobs will flame me over that statement.)

[escomm]

There are no CDM models available at 800MHz or 900MHz. In fact there isn't anything below the expert tier available anymore (maybe a GTX PP on 900...?). Don't think for a second that the convenient cancelation of every 800MHz product right as Nextel went on its buying spree was mere coincidence....

We've already started rebanding in California and the Spectras are getting replaced by XTL-2500's so I guess Nextel and Motorola would disagree with you! I'm sure if they thought the CDM-1550 was an equivilant model radio they would use it considering the difference in the cost.

While they might not considered the same "Tier" as a Spectra, the CDM 1550's have become the choice to replace most Spectra's used by public safety. (The Motorola snobs will flame me over that statement.)

[RKG]

Granted that the CDM does all those things, but anyone using one for their job should consider that almost every agency will be using P25 to some extent if not now, but very soon, especially fire departments.

Ok, I need to change my shorts now. Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight

Actually, I believe NFPA rejects digital voice for FD use, at least on the fireground.

[PhillyPhoto]

Actually, I believe NFPA rejects digital voice for FD use, at least on the fireground.

Tell that to Philly. Firegrounds have full time encryption on a 100% digital trunked system.

[escomm]

Actually, I believe NFPA rejects digital voice for FD use, at least on the fireground.

Tell that to Philly. Firegrounds have full time encryption on a 100% digital trunked system.

Didn't Philly have a house fall on a couple firefighters that couldn't get their man-down signal out of a basement..... ?

[Grog]

Actually, I believe NFPA rejects digital voice for FD use, at least on the fireground.

Tell that to Philly. Firegrounds have full time encryption on a 100% digital trunked system.

Didn't Philly have a house fall on a couple firefighters that couldn't get their man-down signal out of a basement..... ?

Don't let that get in the way of "progress" After all, we all know how badly firefighters need digital AND encryption full time

[RKG]

Actually, I believe NFPA rejects digital voice for FD use, at least on the fireground.

Tell that to Philly. Firegrounds have full time encryption on a 100% digital trunked system.

Why? I doubt they are unaware of 1221, only the consequences of not following that standard (which, of course, is not mandatory).

[NickH]

Granted that the CDM does all those things, but anyone using one for their job should consider that almost every agency will be using P25 to some extent if not now, but very soon, especially fire departments.

Ok, I need to change my shorts now. Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight

Actually, I believe NFPA rejects digital voice for FD use, at least on the fireground.

It was the IAFC that has done the most research on this.

If you're looking at CDM's why not the XTL1500? It's not a bad jump price wise and gives you a good, basic, durable P25 mobile. It's very simmilar in size and feel to a CDM as well, 50 watt front mount only. The big misconception of Motorola's ASTRO line is that you NEED an XTL5000 with all the bells and whistles to get the job done. I'd love to sell everyone an XTL5000, but as a Firefighter on a small POC department I know what their budgets are like.

-Nick