APX7000 Programming Thoughts

Post by **escomm** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:02 am

Boy... if you haven't played with the CPS yet to program a radio, you are in for a real treat. It's still very much a work in progress, and it's still got a LONG way to go! Here are my biggest gripes so far (just talking about conventional stuff, I won't be playing with trunking any time soon since conventional is such a PITA...)

-Still can't type in a PL or DPL tone directly, in fact you can't even use the numpad to get you close to where you want to go (i.e. hitting "2" in Astro25 took you to 203.5, hitting "2" in APX does nothing)

-Tab does not actually move you from field to field-- you MUST use the mouse to add frequency info. Double clicking on a field will follow how Windows rolls, i.e. double clicking on "Channel 2" will highlight either "Channel" or "2". Renaming channels sucks. Have fun programming more than 20 or 30 channels at a time....!!! Save your XTS codeplugs and use the converter IMHO...

-Frequency assignment is now done on the Conventional Personality tab instead of zone assignment-- BUT the frequency options are a separate tab.. seems to be combination of how it was done in Astro vs Astro25. Still getting used to this, but it seems to be workable, and it does seem to clone the settings from the first channel when you add more channels to the personality.

-For some reason, you can name channels on the Conventional Personality tab. This does not carry over to the zone channel assignment, where you get to rename the channels so they actually display on the radio. Why you would be able to name a channel twice on two separate screens...??? I guess so you don't have to remember the personality number from the personality tab when you assign on the zone tab? Why not carry the channel name from the pers tab over to the zone assignment tab? /shrug

-XML based and slow as all hell. Have fun waiting 2-3 seconds to open a tab. Memory and HDD requirements are unreasonable for anything CPS based. Did I remind you it was slow? The actual writes to the radio are nice and speedy though.

-Makes my eyes bleed. I will need to fool around with some of the other color schemes, but just the whole set up takes a great deal of getting used to. The "old way" of just having a +menu to drop down and select from was nice, this way doesn't seem immediately intuitive but it's not terribly different from the old way.

-Only one codeplug open at a time per copy of CPS as best I can tell, I would have thought by now they would have had the feature that's available on the 10 megabyte Commercial CPS that lets you have 2 CPs open at once but I guess this is not implemented?

-Display seems to have a whole lot of real estate that goes unused. Maybe because I'm only using it on conventional? Even with the zone name, channel name, and ID display showing, plus the soft menu items... like 50% of the front display goes unused. Increasing font size might take up more real estate....but then the channel names scroll....

-Battery life is poor... 2100mAh battery is at 50% after 4 hours of programming and scanning LAFD... I have not even transmitted once! I suspect this is because of the color LCD never actually turning off and just dimming. It appears the only way to accomplish this is to set up a couple different radio profiles.

-Software refresh does not require a flashkey.

These

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:12 am

Jeff,

Nice intro. One question I have about the multiband radios that I've not yet seen an answer for is whether or not you can intermix the two (in Motorola's case) bands on the same zone, or must a zone cover just one band? Same would apply to the Harris and Thales units but of course there we'd be asking about three bands.

Regards,

Post by **escomm** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:20 am

Yes, you can mix bands in the same zone as well as the same scan list

Also, found that adding an item to the menu items list will not take it off the list of available items that can be added..like was available in Astro 25. Makes you pay attention to what you've added since it will let you add an item to the menu multiple times....

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:28 pm

escomm wrote:-Makes my eyes bleed.

May I have permission to use that on a future quote?

You have to get the color display to timeout/sleep otherwise the battery will be toast pretty quick. There has to be a setting in CPS for it. The idea is to use the top display unless you need the functionality of the color display.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Marshall

4n6inv · Post by **4n6inv** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:10 pm

The Harris Unity will accept any combination of band; or trunnked / conventional in any zone. I ordered mine (M-3 Everything but Trunking) in October with an expected delivery date of Mid-Janualry. I can hardly sleep at night. I'm F@$%ing driving to Dallas (265 miles one way) the day it arrives at my office!

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:01 am

escomm wrote:Yes, you can mix bands in the same zone as well as the same scan list

And you can mix capabilities as well in the same zone. I had one a few weeks ago as a demo and had VHF, 800 conventional, and 800 trunked all in a single zone. You can scan the conventionals across the different bands but you can't mix trunking in there as most, if not all of you probably know.

Mark

MattSR · Post by **MattSR** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:01 am

Jeff,

What kind of accessory connector does it have? Does it have an hirose to APX style adaptor for keyloading (like the hirose to GCAI for XTL5000s)?

Cheers,
Matt

Post by **escomm** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:05 am

It uses the same accessory connector as the MotoTRBO. The keyload cables are part numbers WPLN6904A and WPLN6905A. WPLN6905A is an RS232 keyload cable (I didn't know those existed??) and MOL is silent on WPLN6904A but I would assume it's hirose.

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:23 pm

We might get to play with a 2.x version in a few months. We are a bit under 2 years away from our 7.x 700Mhz cut over,I would bet it will change and improve a zillion times before then.

MattSR · Post by **MattSR** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:57 pm

Interesting as to what an RS232 keyload cable is? I guess time will tell

radioinstl · Post by **radioinstl** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:28 pm

escomm wrote:It uses the same accessory connector as the MotoTRBO. The keyload cables are part numbers WPLN6904A and WPLN6905A. WPLN6905A is an RS232 keyload cable (I didn't know those existed??) and MOL is silent on WPLN6904A but I would assume it's hirose.

The RS232 is for used the KVL for OTAR store and forward or Tactical rekey
The WPLN6905A is not a hirose, it connects direct to the radio

4n6inv wrote:The Harris Unity will accept any combination of band; or trunnked / conventional in any zone. I ordered mine (M-3 Everything but Trunking) in October with an expected delivery date of Mid-Janualry. I can hardly sleep at night. I'm F@$%ing driving to Dallas (265 miles one way) the day it arrives at my office!

Dont look to get your Unity this month. They are still trying to get FCC and you will not see trunking in it till much later this year.

MSS-Dave · Post by **MSS-Dave** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:36 am

Escomm...

You using 2.00.00 or 3.00.00? Don't think there is any difference except on some of the IV&D stuff. I'm still messing with mine when I have time. I do have the display (both) turning off after 5 seconds.

Also... Does anyone know how many ID's this thing will hold in either the call list or the unified call list? I've looked several places and I can't find an exact answer, CPS help is of no help here. I heard "more than 1000" at 1 point but still not sure.

TIA
Dave

Post by **alex** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:48 am

MSS-Dave wrote:Also... Does anyone know how many ID's this thing will hold in either the call list or the unified call list? I've looked several places and I can't find an exact answer, CPS help is of no help here. I heard "more than 1000" at 1 point but still not sure.

Dave-

It *might* be dynamic. For example, if the radio supports 1000 zones and you only program 50 of them, the memory dedicated for the other 950 zones might go to bigger ID lists.

I'm not 100% on that, but it could explain the lack of a published list.

-Alex

Post by **escomm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:47 am

CPS is 3.00.00, firmware is 2.00.05, not sure if that's got anything to do with it or not. I think I did finally find the problem, though...

Radio Profiles -> Default -> General... "Permanent Display Backlight" obviously needs to be unchecked

FWIW, I was able to add 1250 members to the Unified Contact List.. didn't actually enter any IDs or anything but it let me add them...

MSS-Dave wrote:Escomm...

You using 2.00.00 or 3.00.00? Don't think there is any difference except on some of the IV&D stuff. I'm still messing with mine when I have time. I do have the display (both) turning off after 5 seconds.

Also... Does anyone know how many ID's this thing will hold in either the call list or the unified call list? I've looked several places and I can't find an exact answer, CPS help is of no help here. I heard "more than 1000" at 1 point but still not sure.

TIA
Dave

Post by **escomm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:59 am

Lol... QCII and DTMF signalling are not currently enabled... going to have to wait for a future firmware release

MSS-Dave · Post by **MSS-Dave** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:11 am

Radio Profiles -> Default -> General... "Permanent Display Backlight" obviously needs to be unchecked

That's it. You can then do the timeout selection in the advanced tab. 1250 on the ID list!@! Cool.... now if I could just import the list out of my CentraCom Gold Elite ADM. I have about 800 ID's I "could" do but I would have to claim a visual disability if I ever got that far ................

I'm still thrashing on 2.00.00 for now, I'll probably upgrade it tomorrow to 3.00.00. I only have 4 of these to worry about right now.

Dave

PS... Alex, thanks for your answer too.

resqguy911 · Post by **resqguy911** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:00 pm

MSS-Dave wrote: That's it. You can then do the timeout selection in the advanced tab. 1250 on the ID list!@! Cool.... now if I could just import the list out of my CentraCom Gold Elite ADM. I have about 800 ID's I "could" do but I would have to claim a visual disability if I ever got that far ................

I gave up after a few hours of trying to make an APX .XML import out of my ADM .XLS export, but I'm sure it can be done given the time. I would very much like to provide this feature to a few of my senior radio savvy chiefs...

Post by **TxDOT** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:41 am

Can you use the RS232 Keyloader cable to load a key from the KVL3000+?

If so, how? My dealer sent me the wrong key.

BTW, the ASK only deal for the system key is a pain in the you know what.

Seems you never can find it or another tech has it when you need it.

Paul

MSS-Dave · Post by **MSS-Dave** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:30 am

Thought I'd keep this in the same thread....

Finally got my APX back from the Depot yesterday. Had to get Dual Band Ops turned on cause they forgot on the order. They can't provide field flash upgrades yet.

Trying like hell to do a drag and drop on conventional. I don't have a ASK for 1 of the trunk systems so out of luck on cloning. Read the mediocre help screen several times and it will not do what it says it will do. Got 2 CPS sessions running but Windoze XP doesn't see those as windows so I can't tile using right click on the bottom of the screen. Have to resize manually. All I want to do it move the 25 or so UHF conventional channels from my radio to the other 3.

Am I not holding my mouth right on this or what? NEVER had this much problem with Astro 25 CPS..... Escomm, I'll echo all of your thoughts you brought up with your comments as I have run into every one of those issues here.

TIA!

Dave

Post by **lemish** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:59 am

resqguy911 wrote:I gave up after a few hours of trying to make an APX .XML import out of my ADM .XLS export, but I'm sure it can be done given the time. I would very much like to provide this feature to a few of my senior radio savvy chiefs...

When you figure out how to convert the XLS to XML would you let the rest of is know??? I have been merging codeplugs using the XML but it would be nice to do being in info from other formats.

MSS-Dave wrote:Trying like hell to do a drag and drop on conventional. I don't have a ASK for 1 of the trunk systems so out of luck on cloning. Read the mediocre help screen several times and it will not do what it says it will do. Got 2 CPS sessions running but Windoze XP doesn't see those as windows so I can't tile using right click on the bottom of the screen. Have to resize manually. All I want to do it move the 25 or so UHF conventional channels from my radio to the other 3.

Anyone figured drag and drop out yet???

Yes, I am new to this APX software. Now my question...
...how the heck do I set up a scan list for conventional stuff. I think I have it set up right but it wont show the scan func on my menu even though I have it set to show. Thoughts? Step-by-step help? Anyone?

Thanks,

ML

fireradio · Post by **fireradio** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:20 pm

escomm wrote: -Software refresh does not require a flashkey.

Do you mean software refresh as in firmware upgrade? Maybe I'm missing something, but the Radio Software Refresh option is grayed-out on my screen without a dongle....

Post by **escomm** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:35 pm

fireradio wrote:
escomm wrote: -Software refresh does not require a flashkey.
Do you mean software refresh as in firmware upgrade? Maybe I'm missing something, but the Radio Software Refresh option is grayed-out on my screen without a dongle....

Yes I do. You need to click the flash upgrade tab on the main screen, you will need to specify the DVN file similar to CVN files used for Astro/Astro25

Post by **alex** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:24 pm

Hightower wrote:You do not need a refresh flashkey to upgrade firmware in the APX. How long this will last, I don't know.

They are not going to change that - refreshes are "free"

-Alex

fireradio · Post by **fireradio** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Welp, not sure what happened the first time I tried - but now its letting me update the radio. Thanks!

Nice to see that Motorola has finally stopped making its customers pay for the company's bug fixes.

MotoFAN · Post by **MotoFAN** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:25 pm

APX 3.0 CPS looks and works like piece of sh|t!

I am absolutely disappointed in new Motorola CPS concept

Older Astro/Astro25 CPS looks and works in times better!

Post by **Mfire39** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:22 pm

MotoFAN wrote:APX 3.0 CPS looks and works like piece of sh|t!

Surprisingly, I couldn't agree with you more...

-Marc

MotoFAN · Post by **MotoFAN** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:26 am

Mfire39 wrote:Surprisingly, I couldn't agree with you more...

You like it?

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:14 am

MotoFAN wrote:APX 3.0 CPS looks and works like piece of sh|t!

I am absolutely disappointed in new Motorola CPS concept Older Astro/Astro25 CPS looks and works in times better!

I had a conversation a few weekends ago with a former engineer that worked on the APX project and he advised that the original team who developed the APX CPS have either been let go or re-assigned.
Apparently Motorola management isn't happy with it either and have a new team working on a re-write. Don't know when it will show, but at least it was recognized by those who were able to make the command decisions.

123 · Post by **123** » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:27 am

After reading all the help files and hours of experimenting. I am seeing light to the madness, although the software could still use a facelift...

Would be nice if I could change color on the radio tabs.

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:12 pm

After about 10 hours over 5 sessions I am either seeing some method to the madness or I have been assimilated...

Has anyone been able to get the Direct Frequency Enable under Conventional Wide to work? I get the red flag of failure.

What happened to the simple one entry Astro Call List? Now it's three separate entries (pages) to get the same result.

I need a drink and a cigar.

Marshall

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:29 am

Could anyone spare an APX7000 code plug Por Favor? U/7/8 or V/7/8 it dont matter. I probably wont have my own radio for months until we get enough shipped to us. Just want to mess with the radio wide settings, zone an channel stuff. Thanks in advance, PM me if you need to.

MSS-Dave · Post by **MSS-Dave** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:23 am

rc50won wrote:After about 10 hours over 5 sessions I am either seeing some method to the madness or I have been assimilated...

Has anyone been able to get the Direct Frequency Enable under Conventional Wide to work? I get the red flag of failure.

What happened to the simple one entry Astro Call List? Now it's three separate entries (pages) to get the same result.

I need a drink and a cigar.

Marshall

Mine works....

Did you assign a button to the function yet? I have T/A (or direct...) assigned to the 1 dot button below the PTT bar.

Dave

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:14 am

[/quote]
Mine works....
Did you assign a button to the function yet? I have T/A (or direct...) assigned to the 1 dot button below the PTT bar.
Dave[/quote]

Yes I have it assigned to the same side middle 1 dot button.

There must be something else that's wacky somewhere.

Marshall

MSS-Dave · Post by **MSS-Dave** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:49 am

Make sure in Conventional Personality / Frequency Options you have Direct/Talkaround checked AND the correct T/A frequency entered in the box. Default is probably 851.0125 or something. If you're trying to do VHF or UHF T/A and don't have your freq entered there, you are probably off on the other band somewhere.... FYI!!! You can also do different squelch types on Direct so make sure you have what you want there. I left mine alone so on a repeater I have proper PL encode/decode but I'm doing CSQ on Direct with no TX PL.

Dave

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:55 pm

MSS-Dave wrote:Make sure in Conventional Personality / Frequency Options you have Direct/Talkaround checked AND the correct T/A frequency entered in the box. Default is probably 851.0125 or something. If you're trying to do VHF or UHF T/A and don't have your freq entered there, you are probably off on the other band somewhere.... FYI!!! You can also do different squelch types on Direct so make sure you have what you want there. I left mine alone so on a repeater I have proper PL encode/decode but I'm doing CSQ on Direct with no TX PL.
Dave

The button is checked but all the Direct boxes are grayed out. It's defaulting to the receive frequency/receive frequency PL, and the default NAC of 293.

Marshall

Post by **akardam** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:52 pm

rc50won wrote:Has anyone been able to get the Direct Frequency Enable under Conventional Wide to work? I get the red flag of failure.

Just as a FYI, the equivalent of this box is greyed out on Astro25 radios with FPP enabled. You may be looking at the same restriction on the APX.

123 · Post by **123** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:47 pm

Software was working just fine {no lagging or anything} until today. Now it takes about 5 mins for a command to take effect.
I have not added anything since the last time it was running good. All I was doing today was doing some dropbox changes. So there is no obvious reason for the change. Can't wait for a new release !

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:06 pm

Has anyone tried APX firmware 02.00.15? Issues/success?

Marshall

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:31 am

Hightower wrote:
rc50won wrote:Has anyone tried APX firmware 02.00.15? Issues/success?

Marshall
Honestly didn't notice any difference. Upgraded the host and dsp no problems. No upgrade to the MACE in this release.

When CPS said the update was done, radio flashed SEC HW Update in Progress for about 2 minutes then rebooted. Secure Version was updated from R01.01.03 to R01.01.04.

Marshall

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:13 pm

Yes that would be it then. I skipped .10 and went from .05 to .15. TNX. Marshall

MikeOxlong · Post by **MikeOxlong** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:23 am

R02.00.15 was necessary to fix problems with the PMMN4062 noise cancelling mic and the HMN4104 display microphone.

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:32 am

Not sure if I saw it here on Batlabs, but somewhere it was said that the KVL3000+ is the only keyloader that could be utilized on the APX7000. Just want to report that I successfully keyloaded a DES/OFB key into an APX7000 using an older T3011DX keyloader and WPLN6904A cable. Yes I know that the AES key isn't possible, but a DES key loaded with zero issues.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:23 am

Thats very good news on the T3011DX loading keys into it.

Has anyone tried firmware R04.00.00? Any comments on it?

I couldn't figure out why my PL tones were screwed up when I programmed in a few conventional channels. Seems that if I set 103.5 hz, and programmed it it would still show up as 67.0 when I FPP'd the same channel. Going into CPS and setting 103.5 hz and 1A took care of. Apparantly you can set the PL frequency and the Motorola code (XZ, 1A, 1B, etc) independently. That seems retarded.

Jay

Post by **alex** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:30 am

New FSB out:

SUBJECT: ASTRO® Digital APX 7000™ - When writing to a radio, with Customer Programming Software (CPS) version R04.00.00, a codeplug error message may be displayed.

MODEL / SYSTEM AFFECTED:
All ASTRO® Digital APX 7000™ portable radios (H97TGD9PWAN) shipped before November 2009 as denoted by serial numbers of 655CKVxxxx or earlier when programming with version R04.00.00 CPS.

SYMPTOM:
After reading an affected radio and then attempting to write back to it, the CPS might display the following error message: “The radio has encountered some invalid fields. Please see a Motorola representative for assistance”.

CAUSE:
Defect in the CPS

https://businessonline.motorola.com/DOC ... B10436.pdf

The fix is to use CPS 04.00.01.

-Alex

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:08 am

Jay wrote: Has anyone tried firmware R04.00.00? Any comments on it?
Jay

Using R04.00.00 with CPS 14.00.01 - no issues to report. There was another bump for MACE in this release.

Marshall

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:01 pm

rc50won wrote:
Jay wrote: Has anyone tried firmware R04.00.00? Any comments on it?
Jay
Using R04.00.00 with CPS 14.00.01 - no issues to report. There was another bump for MACE in this release.

Marshall

Don't you mean CPS 04.00.01?

rc50won · Post by **rc50won** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:40 pm

KS4VT wrote:
rc50won wrote:
Jay wrote: Has anyone tried firmware R04.00.00? Any comments on it?
Jay
Using R04.00.00 with CPS 14.00.01 - no issues to report. There was another bump for MACE in this release.

Marshall
Don't you mean CPS 04.00.01?

Yes I do. Getting XTS/APX syndrome.

M

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:34 am

I hear that!

Nexrad16 · Post by **Nexrad16** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:54 pm

Hmmmm.....Dumb question but, trying to write the APX but have invalid field report for the trunking system control channels rx tx freqs. I don't have a trunk system to enter. 403.00000 for both field wont fix it or any combination which was in there when I started. Any ideas?

thx

MikeOxlong · Post by **MikeOxlong** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:39 am

One thing I hate about the APX CPS. A lot of fields that aren't even used get set to NULL when making a change in something else which results in Invalid Fields.

I remember coming across the trunking system problem but I forget exactly how I cleared it.

Try adding a new system and then delete the old system or change the system type from P25 to Type II and then back again.

It's been a while since I ran into that problem.