Warning lights thru tinted glass---what works the best?

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:56 pm

I just bought newer Suburban with factory tint. I would like to put a double rectangle strobe heads in each of the rear "dutch" doors with red and amber filters.

Does anyone have a similar setup (i.e. strobe behind tinted glass)???
-Is it effective???

I have seen Police Tahoes with what appears to be "factory" tinted rear doors with some sort of cutouts (no tint) that perfectly fit the strobe head. In this case it was a Michigan State Police tahoe using Federal Signal EuroStyle GS2. Would be nice if I could find some from a wrecked cruiser and repaint...

OR

Should I use LED??? Price is a concern. I don't want to spend more than 50% more for LED's.

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:48 am

I haven't seen any type of light work WELL in tinted SUV windows.
The last one I did was a set of 3X4" Tomar strobe heads getting hit with a 65W power supply. These weren't really bad, but the tint kills anything by at least 50%. LEDs seem to be somewhat better, but most suck. If you opt for LEDs, go with the Tomar TLED series or the Whelen (yes...I said Whelen) Talon- these are the only two on the market worth even spending money on.

Okay- I know you are ALL waiting for this so I won't disappoint y'all, so here it is. The Tomar is a better light then that Whelen since it has a much wider peripheral view (angle). You knew I'd say it

Put the lights on the roof and you're good!

Post by **alex** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:59 am

I have a dashmiser in the top left back window of my explorer mounted to the area above the headliner, and while it's not as bright as the amber corners on the truck, you can still see it, and it seems to keep other people from kissing the ass end of my truck.

-Alex

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:52 am

One thing you'll notice is that certain colors penetrate better than others. Also, some colors are better in LED and others are better in strobe.

Post by **alex** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:03 am

I'll further clarify to say that this is a amber/red combination, strobe, 2000 Ford Explorer, powered by a ISP188 with 8 strobe heads off of the pack.

-Alex

Post by Pj » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:27 am

If you are going strobe, the bigger the p/s the better. Lens/strobe design also is a big deal. Small lightheads will not work as well as the larger ones. The Whelen 700 series will work much better than 400 series if size isn't a big deal. Price difference isn't that much better either.

If you go LED, red/amber cost the same, rest is almost 2x the cost. The Whelen "Linear" LED's will most likely work better than the little LED's, but the TIR6 are a nice alternative as well.

(Its also good to see Jim slowly coming over to the dark side)

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:36 am

I checked into the removal of factory tint for my vehicle as well. The conclusion was "Not Possible" since the facotry tint is one with the glass.

What you saw was more like stock clear glass with aftermarker tint that was cut out. The DEP in CT does this to their expeditions as well.

As far as LED's, I've never seen this tomar LED. But the Talon as a VERY wide angle, like you practically stand along side the windshield and it strains your eyes. I would use nothing else if you are doing LED anything.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:46 pm

I'm probably now going to put a strong 4 outlet supply to power four rear strobes...I wonder if I can put everything inside of the door...

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:20 pm

I'm not coming over! Never! The bottom line is that there are some Whelen products that are good and others (um...many) that aren't so good. There are also Tomar, Code 3 and Federal products that just plain suck (like the "Tomar Unitrol" that's just a relabeled Federal unit.)

With power supplies, bigger IS better....to a point.
This point is where you exceed around 25-30 watts per spiral tube. They will burn up quickly if pushed beyond this. Using the linear tubes will yield more efficiency AND allow you to run them with more wattage. You can hit the spirals with more wattage, but keep spare tubes handy.

In respect to the recommendation of larger housings/lenses definitely! The bigger, the better.

The Talon is very wide compared to most LEDs, but next to the Tomar, it isn't as wide. Even the Whelen rep admit that the Tomar was wider at the Lancaster show several months ago! The Whelen's color is a little more "pure" than the Tomar's.
Like I said, these are the only two LEDs to consider- the rest are just wannabes with no peripheral view. The Talon works better than the Tomar if you want to mount it above the rear view mirror because of it's shorter height. For deck or grille light, the Tomar is the winner. I'm not sure about the Whelen, but the TLED series is available in a weatherproof version for pushbumper mount. What's cool is the clear lens- they look like foglights when off.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:25 pm

the only other way os just to open the doors

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:29 pm

What you'll are calling factory tent is not a flim like aftermarket, but dyed glass in most cases. In other words, you can't take a small part of it off.

Cam

ffemti2 · Post by **ffemti2** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:43 pm

Check RIM Industries for the Sho-Me LED's. You can order by the inch and RIM sells at or near dealer cost over the net. rimindustries.com. One of the guys here installed (2) 4" LED's (white and red) in the back of his new Dodge Ram with tinted windows. They stick out ok during the day and kick As*! at night. I think they stick out better than any strobe.

TOMAR??

I don't have a lot of faith in a company named after Tom and Mary! Thier stuff is alright, but those wonderful lightbars that they make have problems. Just ask a tech with Milwaukee P.D. or Brown County Sheriff's department. I will say that they are really pretty when they work!

FMROB · Post by **FMROB** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:33 am

No actually no one mentioned this,,,,,,BUT it works well (as tested by time and technology)...Use HALOGEN lights, such as a dual dashmiser or single, or even code 3 makes the arrow stick units that come in single or double (AS2) unit. They are bright as hell, and cuts through the tint well. Old technology, not so obtractive, but it does work..

Mike in CT · Post by **Mike in CT** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:25 pm

The 99 Suburban war wagon I drive has some kind of extra dark tint all around (Limo tint?) that came from GMC ... in the glass, I can't scratch or peel it.

the strobes are in the upper area of the glass lift gate.

The red and blue strobes (stock Whelan I believe), seem to be very bright, though I honestly couldn't give a numerical evaluation.

Its very possible they would be much brighter through clear glass, but the lights never seem to fail in stopping some idiot who has amorous intentions with my bumper.

... and thats what its all about!!!

Mike in CT

PS: would rather have a Corvette with hideaways...

Post by Pj » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:34 pm

Now that I am at work, I just remembered what we have (duh!).

Our 2002 Explorer with rear tints have two single dashkings with a 90 watt p/s, red/blue and are nice and bright.

Our 2003 Expidition (sp?) has a pair of dual TIR6 Simlighter LED's with red/amber amber/blue and are extreamly bright. You wouldn't know that there was tinted glass..

jim · Post by **jim** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:37 pm

Rob is 100% right. Halogen works very well thru tint, although nobody wants to use halogen any longer.

firemanbatt · Post by **firemanbatt** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:06 pm

I have two NOVA linear Micro thins in amber in the rear windows on my suburban. The control heads are mounted to the doors and open with them..there is about 1/2 inch between light heads and the glass. They are visible in daylight and night time.

I previously had them behind clear glass and they are bright as hell! But behind the tint, I would say that the brightness is cut in half.

They are in a 89 suburban with factory tint.

Tim

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:11 pm

Hmm....so many ideas....well looks like I am going to shop around for a a rectangular duel lighthead (strobe-halogen) to put in each of the "dutch" doors. I'm looking at an 8-outlet 150w supply right now for the strobes from Whelen.

I'm not to concerned about "coding" but I am concerned about getting rear-ended on the freeway.

jim · Post by **jim** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:52 am

I've used the Tomar (of course!) # UC-34HX2 in the 34X2-UC-housing in the rear of quite a vehicles. These can be had in strobe/halogen and any color combination. They are a dual 3X4 light head. Sound-Off makes a similar unit, but I can't remember if you can do the halogen/strobe split. I use them with the Neobe power supply and a Sound-Off SS grille light flasher. Very effective.
When the customer has no preference, I use strobe for the blues.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:45 pm

Halogen sounds fine...anyone familiar with the FedSig GH1?

http://store.yahoo.com/sirennet/fsgh1.html

I wish I would have bought a pair off of eBay a little while ago...these still aren't bad for $33/each and have non-fluted lenses.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:01 pm

Yep, I sure am. They are nice halogen lights. We used them inside the cab or a backrack of 4x4 trucks and our Sheriff's department uses a pair of them in red/amber in the back window of the squads.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:13 am

Anyone know about/familiar with the Whelen 600 Series LED lights? They are 6.5in wide and 4in tall. Bright enough behind tinted glass (rear doors of 'burban)???

jim · Post by **jim** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:31 am

These will be very bright and visible behind the tint. They are designed to be focused in a straight beam, so they don't have alot of light coming off at an angle, however, they are really bright. Their intended application was brake, turn and forward facing warning, so they naturally don't need a wide pattern.

Just a note (I laugh- especially the big Whelen fan that I am!): I just saw a heavy rescue truck this week that's about a year old that had these lights all over it and several of them already had segments out of them. Whelen would not take care of the problem. This is a shame, since the truck had $7000.00 worth of their product. The truck is getting changed over to strobe soon.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:27 pm

What causes segments to go out??? I thought these were solid state...

If I buy the 700's they would be mounted inside and used strickly as flashers. I don't need to worry about angles.

Post by Pj » Sat Nov 08, 2003 2:55 am

The 400 and 700 series strobe/halogen/LED series lights are designed to work with the same mulitiple housings. The 600 series is primarily designed to be used in brake/turn/tail/rear warning systems.

I have yet to see a Whelen LED go bad, but anything can happen to any product. Considereing that Whelen usually has a 5 year warrantly on the HDP stuff (which covers 95% of LED products) I don't see why they would have a problem.

700 series LED's are LARGE (7x3 rough numbers) then add the housing. Unless you want something that large, I would recommend the 400 series. Our 700 series LED's in the Expedition (used as grille lights) have the fluted clear lenses and works well at angles.

Also, you can consider the combo 400 and 700 series lights. Strobe/halogen - strobe/LED - halogen/halogen etc. Could make for some interesting combos. The strobe heads in the 700 series COMBO heads are 400 series strobes and are bright. The Edge Ultra bars (and 9M I believe) use the 400 series lightheads in the bars.

The LED boards are epoxy dipped, and are basically waterproof.

You also may want to consider a traffic arrow or LED arrow for the rear. You can get them in any color. You can get very slim LED versions that won't effect your rear view mirror if mounted at the roof or bottom window line. I have the liftgate, and I am considering the same...but it would be overkill for my needs.

jim · Post by **jim** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:52 am

They claimed that mounting them on a compartment door voids the warranty because slamming the door can make them go bad. About 12 lights were on doors. Poor excuse, guys. If this is the case, then why not list this as a caution in the instructions???

LEDs fail for several reasons. Most manufacturers place several of the LEDs in series. If one fails, the whole segment of 7 or whatever fails. Another reason is a failed solder joint or PCB crack. This again causes the entire segment to go out. Using the incorrect potting material will also cause failures (to stiff of a material).

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:10 am

Hmm...slamming the doors makes them go bad huh? Should have taken all of the bad ones off of the rig, put them in a box, and returned them to Whelen saything nothing about them being on a compartment door.

Work the system, don't let it work you!

Post by Pj » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:19 pm

Why would you want to put them on a compartment door anyways? That's the last place that I would want to mount something. Nevermind LED's - strobe, halogen anything that blinks would be prone to extra abuse than what driving the truck to the scene would do.

We don't exactly close the door gently..

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:21 am

I agree that compartment doors are not the greatest spot. In fact, now that I think about it... it is a really bad spot. As soon as you open the door, your truck is no longer within NFPA 1901 specs because your light is pointing a different direction.

PriorityOne · Post by **PriorityOne** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:11 pm

As others have stated LED should not be your main source, or more importantly your only source of warning power. LED is utilized best when in combination with strobe, or halogen. My personal vehicle has a custom made triple Blue/White/Blue LED stick by ABLE2. This was purchased through RIM Industries. The stick is mounted above the rear-view mirror in the tint strip, and is nasty bright, however very directional. Only reason I used this was the low-profile housing it utilizes (all my lights can't be seen until turned on) Complimented with 8 other hide-away strobes the package is unbeatable... the strobes take care of my corners and the LED does its job in the front.
The difference between placing the LED in the tint strip or just below it in clear glass is very minimal, I tried both. The key is how far the light is pressed up against the glass, the closer the better. A lot of light can be lost from "flash-back".

Post by Pj » Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:47 pm

One thing that that struck me today, but nobody reads, is that in all the Code3, Federal Signal and Whelen catalogs today, all these lights are listed as DIRECTIONAL lights. Not just LED's (made by anyone).

The list included strobes and halogens.

Think about it. Most of these lightheads are in flush/semi flush mounts and/or are recessed in the dash/deck housings.

I can looked straight down the side of my engine and not really see the three strobe lights. Place our surburban that has "intersection" LED flashers next to the engine and both perform the same.

If you want wide angle, use a lightbar and/or corner strobes lights.

I think we are all getting hung up on this stupid LED directional thing, but forgetting all the directional stuff that has been around for years.

I am sure this same debate took place when strobes started to get into the market.

rt721 · Post by **rt721** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:30 am

If all else fails use the leds mounted to the luggage rack cross bar. I found out that at one time the factory tint was created by placing the tint material between two pieces of glass. only way to get rid of it, replace the glass.

Warning lights thru tinted glass---what works the best?

Warning lights thru tinted glass---what works the best?

lights in tinted windows

factory tint