Intermittent Reliability on Switch Box

[Blazeorange]

Hey folks:

I helped a friend install a Galls Switchbox into his 2004 Ford P.I. cruiser. (I know, I know!!!!) That's a long story. Cost was a factor....you get the gist. Please don't start any flames from this, I need advice, first and foremost.

What I suspect where the problem lies is that the box is one of the StreetThunder Series with a Slide Pursuit Switch and six toggles for lights controls.

We installed a Whelen 6 Head 90 Watt Strobe Supply with 2x2x2 switching to activate four rear taillight strobes on the first click (position one) of the pursuit switch, front 2 corner strobes on the second click (Position 2). This was brand new. We put this into the trunk.

He has a Whelen Edge Lightbar on the roof and its rear strobes are on the first click (position one) of the pursuit switch. Basically, the four taillight strobes and two rear strobes of the bar come on at position one. (The lightbar was less than 6 months old)

Awhile back, he mentioned to me that sometimes the taillight strobes and the front two strobes are not actuating upon his switching the lights on to Position One. The lightbar's two rear strobes will fire but at either position one or two, the Whelen Power Supply in the trunk for the taillight strobes and front two corner strobes won't activate.

I drove to his place (1/2 hr away) last time, activated the switch(es) and everything worked perfect. I checked wires, fuses, connections, etc. and was stumped. I didn't look inside the switch box, itself.

The wire that was installed as power to the strobe supply in the trunk was brand new off the spool. I'm certain that it's not a broken wire. All of the strobe bulbs were brand new or had minimal use. The fuse was good on the strobe supply housing itself.

Any possibilities inside of the switch box. I know the box has a 40 Amp Circ. Breaker or relay (can't remember which) at Position 2.

This switch box looks like something that FS made for Galls under the StreetThunder Labels. There is a Mobile Vision System 7 camera that's trigger for Auto Record is wired into position one as well. It goes into record mode as soon as any of the lights are activated.

He's getting frustrated and I'm even more so.
I was thinking to go with a relay and just use Position One as the trigger. What mostly bothers me is the fact that he never loses the rear strobes on the Whelen Edge Lightbar but loses the taillight strobes.

The fact that this only happens months apart, incidentally, bothers me as well.

Sorry for the long post.

Help......................and......................Thanks.

Blaze.

[jim]

Make sure the switches are good. I 've already changed these "blue" rockers in several of these boxes.
If there IS a switch problem, upgrade all of them to a better switch.
Also, check the crimps on all wiring in the box since I've already seen a bad crimp burn up in one of these greatly designed units.

Don't overlook the crimps in the fuseholder's terminals either.

[Blazeorange]

Jim:

You sound a little skeptical about it being just the switch box. Is there something else that you think I should be looking at? Another possibility?

I'll take a look inside the box itself for questionables.......

Since you mentioned blue rocker switches, I know we are talking about the same switch boxes. This problem is likely in the pursuit 3-Position Slide Switch. The box is new enough, there's probably a warranty yet.

I hope this isn't a quality control problem. Exchange is always a problem for me................

I wish I could have talked him into a Unitrol......

Thanks.

Blaze.

[motor59]

If I am properly reducing your post to its essense, the situation is:

1 Galls slide switch controls lightbar, camera and trunk mounted strobe controller.
2 lightbar and camera function properly at all times
3 trunk mounted strobes work intermittently

Strictly from a troubleshooting perspective, I'd check all the connections & crimps on the power lead from the switchbox to the strobe controller and the grounding of it as well.

If they check out, the next thing to do is to confirm power at the controller the next time it fails. Your friend should invest in a cheap DVM and leave it in the glovebox of the car. You can usually pick one up at CrapShack for under 20 bucks on sale.

When it eventually fails, check for DC at the strobe controller without disturbing the power connector and see if it's present and at the proper level. It it is, disconnect/reconnect the power and see it the strobes start popping. Start at the strobe controller end; if that doesn't do it try the switchbox end. The key is to narrow down your possible causes.

If you're going to try and chase this kind of a BI (bastard intermittent) problem from a half-hour away, you'll never find it. Life's gonna be a :o and not cooperate.

[Blazeorange]

My biggest question is (and maybe I'm not thinking this through enough) but if it's a switch problem in the box, why are the rear lightbar strobes always actuating when the trunk supply (corner strobes, taillights) are not?

That makes me think it's a connection problem or maybe a ground problem on the strobe suppy box in the trunk.

I'm thinking its human error based on this but not mechanical error but then again, if the switch isn't providing the proper connection, would it theoretically be possible to activate the strobes in the Lightbar (because they are triggered with less voltage) than the trunk supply? Maybe it's trigger is higher?

Don't know. Am definitely frustrated.

Thanks so far.

Blaze.

[jim]

I'd check all of the grounds. Make sure they are real grounds and not just a TEK screw through sheet metal. Clean the pain off, too.


I'd get the test light out when the problem occurs and rpaidy start poking around everyone's input and output too.

Being 1/2 hour away kinda sucks. Maybe trade vehicles with them for the weekend?

[Blazeorange]

Thanks for the replies. Will check these out.

I haven't been sold as a solid-gold fan of this particular switch box. We had the Remote Siren from the same series in there and we replaced it with the fixed head one (same series.) I took the Remote Siren apart to look inside. It had a solder joint problem on the circuit board inside. That was easy enough to fix but raised my eyebrow. I saw someone else post on the board about the same siren with a solder joint problem as well. Sheesh.........

This intermittent problem bothers me but you're right, I've seen ground problems do this before, especially in the cases of trailer light wiring, etc. Freaky stuff happens around Grounds. I hope it's an easy fix but are they ever.................????!!!!

Thanks.

Blaze.

[Blazeorange]

My friend called me tonight. Went out to the car after having shut it off completely at noon. Started it up, checked the lights and everything is working properly. Now, keep in mind, car hasn't been touched and hasn't been moved.

Just shut the car off for several hours by the iginition key. Started it by the same ignition key and VIOLA, the lights work.....!

I'm not so sure it's ground related, now.

What do you think? Any ideas....

Thanks.

Blaze.

[Gerbil]

well, that kinda raises my eyebrow more towards a ground issue...

What if the ground to the rear controller is loose. A bump or a hard turn d/c's it. Another bump reconnects it. If everything works, and the car doesnt move, and everything still works... that might be a possibility. Trace that ground, and see where it is. Turn everything on, and jiggle the sucker... if you lose the strobes, you have a winner. Do the jiggle test on the power wire too.

[ExKa|iBuR]

I don't know what kind of connectors you used to put the wires onto the switches, but in the past I've had problems with the crimp-on "quick disconnect" style "spade" types...If this is the kind of connectors you're using, once you slide them on, give them a good squeeze with some pliars or such to make sure they are seated good. You might want to also check the grounds, as suggested. In my old car, I had a GTX that sometimes just refused to turn on...turns out, the ground on the powerline was shot, and the radio was grounding itself through the coax...I guess the ground on the NMO mount wasn't quite what it should have been.

Good Luck!

-Mike

[Blazeorange]

I thought about that too like you guys said. I didn't use Spade Crimp Connects so that's not an issue.

The weird part was that he had just done funeral escort traffic, pulled into his driveway after discovering the problem and called me. He had no taillight strobes at the time we were talking. He then shut off the vehicle, restarted it again and tried and still nothing. He advised he just shut off the car and went in the house.

Now, as you read, he called last night, having walked out to the car, started it and flipped the switch. They worked perfect.

Keep in mind, car wasn't moved, no wires were messsed with. Car was shut off and restarted twice during the time frame as I described. Is a ground still a likely cause?

I'm thinking auto-reset circuit breaker in the switch box. In the 2X2X2 switching of the Whelen Power supply, the 3rd set of 2 are on the Position 2 of the switchbox whereas the first 4 (2X2) are on Position One. Is it possible through the inner workings of the Switch Box that if the circuit breaker at Position 2 throws out, that it's disabling the Whelen Power Supply? What I mean, is if one sequence's input of the 2X2X2 switching is disabled (i.e. not-powered) is it possible that it's taking the whole power supply down until the breaker resets in the switch box?

Are the Whelen Power supplies active in a stair step type sequence? I'm still not ruling out grounds but man this is a tough one. Am going to go look at the car with him tomorrow night and see if we can duplicate the error somehow.

Thanks for advice.

Blaze.

[jim]

It's possible there's a dead channel in the strobe supply too.

Also, are the HV cable ends sealed so water doesn't get in them?

[motorolamonster911]

It's possible there's a dead channel in the strobe supply too.

Also, are the HV cable ends sealed so water doesn't get in them?

Ok even though that Galls switch box is probably a POS, just like everything else Galls gets their hands on, and me and Jim couldnt say enough about them, I'm thinking maybe along the lines of what Jim thinks about sealed ends. I have put in a 8-outlet power supply that used the sequential switching. One set of alternating lights wouldnt flash and it was because water was getting in the AMP connector and shorting the strobes out.

Maybe next time have your friend have someone watch the strobes while he turns them on. The time it takes for him to flip the pursuit switch and get out of the car, then walk around and see if they are on is more than plenty of enough time for the power supply to realize that their is a problem and shut those lights off. If the certain lights are activating at all, you may see a little flash , but he wouldnt because he is still in the car. This was the exact problem with one I installed.

Do whatever you can do to waterproof connectors!!!!!!

And electrical tape is not enough!!!


Nick


Edited for addition to post

[FFParamedic571]

What guage wire are you feeding the power supply with? I have seen where low voltage and too small of a wire will cause the strobes to cut out...

[Blazeorange]

The connectors could be a possibility as Nick said. We Die-electric greased all of the AMP connectors before we plugged them together but they are only plugged into each other. We didn't externally seal them. I would think the grease plus the tightness of the AMP Connectors would give some measure of a seal but maybe it's not enough.

I'm still going to double check all of the grounds on everything.

The power wire to the Strobe Supply was 10 GA SAE. I remember reading what the install manual for the strobes recommended at something like 16 or 14 GA Minimum. I went heavy, hoping to prevent problems. That power wire only runs the strobe supply in the trunk by the way. There's no taps from it, etc. I don't like taps, splices, and that crap.

I appreciate all of the responses. I wish the car was here in my driveway so I could look at it, right now.

Thanks folks.

Blaze.

[FFParamedic571]

We use a RTV silicone on all strobe connectors. On the side that the cable enters the plug. Then a light film over theactual connections.. Had very few probelms with water/ snow/ junk getting in .

[wa2zdy]

Temperature and other environmental changes could well be causing an intermittent to come and go as you describe even without the vehicle being started or moved.

[Blazeorange]

You state that temperature and environmental changes could be factors. How? What are you thinking that these outside sources may be causing to malfunction?

Any suggestions...?

Blaze.