This was in Annapolis' newspaper this morning. Just thought some people might find it interesting.
No special car lights for firefighters
By JULIA HOCKENBERRY For The Capital
The last thing Kent Island volunteer Firefighter Link George expected while rushing to a call was to get pulled over for speeding and running a red light.
"The trooper said to me, 'Where are you going to? A fire?' And I said, 'Yeah, I am!"'
While his 20-year-old story is somewhat of a local folk legend, it's a fact that Queen Anne's County volunteers have no way to distinguish themselves from the average speeder: Their personal vehicles aren't allowed to have flashing lights.
It's going to remain that way for at least another year, after the county Fire Chiefs Association unanimously voted on Thursday not to support a bill to change the county law.
"What happens if one of these guys with the flashing lights runs into you?" asks Commissioner Michael Koval, R-Chester, who's a member of the Fire Chiefs Association. "Who's responsible? What happens if someone gets killed? It's a big insurance issue."
Tracy Schulz, chief of the Kent Island Volunteer Fire Department, said the legislation lacked specifics, like the number and type of lights and who would dole them out.
"There are issues that need to be looked into further," he said.
State Sen. E.J. Pipkin Jr. and Del. Richard Sossi, both Stevensville Republicans, could not be reached for this story.
The idea of giving volunteer firefighters a visual signal to alert other drivers to their presence is not a new one.
Board of Commissioners President Ben Cassell, R-Stevensville, said the issue went before the the county's two state lawmakers, but was tabled because of time constraints.
While the details of this year's proposed bill left much to be desired, the concept of flashing lights for volunteers is supported by many.
"I think the consensus may be that everybody supports it, but everybody supports it being done right," said Francis Roudiez, a volunteer with the Kent Island department.
Firefighter George said the lights are critical in Queen Anne's County, where fire departments are staffed exclusively by volunteers.
"Basically, it's a good idea," he said, "and it's needed to help in quickening response times."
The problem of getting to the scene quickly has been complicated in recent years by the county's growing population and traffic.
Recent county data shows emergency calls have increased by 40 percent over the last five years. In 2003, paramedics responded to about 5,500 EMS calls, 25 percent of which were handled by the Kent Island department.
Because frustrated motorists on clogged roads during rush hours are often reluctant to yield to other cars. Chief Schulz said, the lights would at least alert drivers that the person in a rush has a legitimate need to cut in line.
"People don't get out of your way," said Chief Schulz, adding that historically, volunteers used their hazard lights and headlights to get the attention of other drivers.
But that doesn't work very often anymore. To make matters worse, Route 8 in Stevensville is notorious for backups.
"It's getting to the point now that it seems like (motorists) just don't want to pull over for you," Firefighter George agreed. "By the time you get to the fire house, the equipment is gone. And it's getting so frustrating, that sometimes, I don't even want to leave my house."
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Of interest - Article on Maryland lights law.
Moderator: Queue Moderator
"It's getting to the point now that it seems like (motorists) just don't want to pull over for you," Firefighter George agreed. "By the time you get to the fire house, the equipment is gone. And it's getting so frustrating, that sometimes, I don't even want to leave my house."
He's in for a real wake up call if he thinks people will act any different after he gets lights. They have an excuse now, and won't care later.
He's in for a real wake up call if he thinks people will act any different after he gets lights. They have an excuse now, and won't care later.
I had someone tonight while going to an ambulance call - because we are not EMD we go red/code3/77/whatever you want to call it this week to every call...
This numbnut decides to let this girl (admitably cute) cross infront of him. I can't go around him due to 2 islands on either side of me.
Now, like usual, i'm all for pedestrian safety but when they are waving the car through and i'm laying on the air horn....
I decided it would be prudent to stop quickly and mention to him:
When you see red lights behind you and hear a siren your to PULL TO THE RIGHT AND NOT TO THE LEFT IN A SAFE AND FAST MANNER.
Some dumbasses.
Hopefully he didn't promptly dial the number on the side of our ambulance.
-Alex
This numbnut decides to let this girl (admitably cute) cross infront of him. I can't go around him due to 2 islands on either side of me.
Now, like usual, i'm all for pedestrian safety but when they are waving the car through and i'm laying on the air horn....
I decided it would be prudent to stop quickly and mention to him:
When you see red lights behind you and hear a siren your to PULL TO THE RIGHT AND NOT TO THE LEFT IN A SAFE AND FAST MANNER.
Some dumbasses.
Hopefully he didn't promptly dial the number on the side of our ambulance.
-Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.
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jedi_saber
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:09 pm
Hehe...when I used to blast through MD traffic, I remember some weird provision that drivers were to pull to the closest curb, left or right, while most other places I have driven EVs only make you pull to the right, like in NY with Alex...weird.Gerbil wrote:pull to your right... no your OTHER right.
Oh well...those were also the days when we believed in having a dual unitrol siren, airhorns, powercall and a real Q to cut through traffic...!
The article mentions that lights/sirens were not commissioned on a county level - wonder what MD state laws are regarding that... I think it makes sense to have them in a rural place where the county is mostly volunteer staffed and not in station all the time. However in more urban areas, not sure how much sense it makes to give vollies lights and sirens if stations are mostly career or in station staffed.
What I think is not a good idea however is to have vollies responding POV, flashing their highbeams, honking their horns and having their hazards on - that's the kinda stuff people get jacked up for. Sounds to me like this county needs to revisit a) career or instation staffing of apparatus (think response time) or b) authorize POV responses properly equipped and personnel adequately trained in emergency response.
Sometimes I am tempted to play the Dumbo's Flying Circus musical ringer in my phone over the PA. Who knows, it might be more effective.
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
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jedi_saber
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:09 pm
bahahaha - we have previously tried that in our Hazmat SUV - except someone felt the need to replay the theme from the television show "Dallas" - it actually worked like charm and had many people on sidewalks wondering if you could get ice-cream at the window of a suburban...nmfire10 wrote:Sometimes I am tempted to play the Dumbo's Flying Circus musical ringer in my phone over the PA. Who knows, it might be more effective.
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c17loadsmasher
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:26 pm
Here in SC, where they apparently just shake their SCDL out of a cereal box, they go every which way but the way they're supposed to. To the right, to the left, or just plain stop - or they wait until you're right on them before they figure out what to do - the worst thing to do. My personal favorite is I was responding to a MVA and the car in front of me, rather than yield, chose to floor it... he was pulling away from me and I was at around 75 at the time.
Plain language is the DEVIL. Ten-Codes Forever!!!
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x1sspic
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: AstroSpectra XTS3K XTS5K APX7K
And you called the plate in, right? That way you KNEW somewhere, sometime later, that a$$hole was getting a nice BEATDOWN from one of our friendly LEO'sc17loadsmasher wrote: My personal favorite is I was responding to a MVA and the car in front of me, rather than yield, chose to floor it... he was pulling away from me and I was at around 75 at the time.
The most annoying by far however... Your driving down the road to pickup lunch or coming back from a call. No lights, no sirens, and these idiots are pulling over for you. Yet if you had 4 sirens and 7,000 lights flashing, they wouldn't pull over or even slow down.
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
I've done that to give myself some extra manuevering room so I could get off the road safely, or to not impede the EV in a place where passing wasn't safe. I've also seen a guy flip us off and flat disappear over the horizon, so much for passing a Viper.c17loadsmasher wrote: My personal favorite is I was responding to a MVA and the car in front of me, rather than yield, chose to floor it... he was pulling away from me and I was at around 75 at the time.
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RESCUE161
- Batboard $upporter
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- What radios do you own?: Too many!
Wes may be able to confirm or deny this, but when I was a fire fighter in Winston-Salem, one of the trucks there apparently lost an axle while going to a call. The truck number was 'Truck 109'. It went on every single fire call in the county, so there were LOTS of miles on it.
I remember the other members saying that the axle passed them while they were code-3. They said that they just called in that they were 10-7 and slowly came to a halt...
I remember the other members saying that the axle passed them while they were code-3. They said that they just called in that they were 10-7 and slowly came to a halt...
Scott
KE4FHH
Religion: Kills folks dead!
KE4FHH
Religion: Kills folks dead!
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Quarterwave
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:15 pm
They have lights on volunteer vehicles at the owners discreation and expense here in Ohio. So, as you can imagine, the guys that want to just get there and do the job, have a dash light. The wannabe's god bless em have enough lights to make santa clause blush. They have to obey the speed limit no matter, and now must have a siren, something they didnt used to have to have with thier light. One of the biggest problems is one of the wannabe's who is all giddy over a big call coming in and wants to respond "27" from his place of employment 3 county's away and act like he can get there in 10 minutes when it usually takes 45. They had trouble with this one guy who did that, and when they heard him calling in, a Lt at the SO that I know got in his cruiser and met the guy at the county line, doing 100mph, finally got him pulled over and took him to jail for reckless operation. He deserved it, he could have hurt someone in his little fantasty run. I think they kicked him off the dept for a while too. I appreciate the "real" volunteers who really do help, I think the playboys should be weeded out. If they use thier lights right, let them have them.
Q
Q
I have been in volunteer fire departments for almost 20 years now as well as being in law enforcement. I have heard more versions and sides to this issue than I care to get into. The only definate thing I can figure about this is that as long as there are volunteer emergency responders of any kind this will always be an issue. Volunteers fightfighters, EMT's, reserve deputies, off duty personnel, all these are often times very valuable and while many times there response time doesn't mean the difference between life and death there are times that it does. Who's to say which time a volunteer's response id going to be one of the times that makes that life and death difference. Mean while everyone is arguing over liability, responsibility, training, equipment, what ever else and nothing really seems to change. Some placed add lights and sirens some places take them away.
Goergia has one of the best systems for this I have seen after being envolved in four different states. In Georgia you have to actually get a permit which is approved by the head offical of the appropriate agency and is issued by the State Department of Motor Vehicles which authorizes you to use lights and sirens and the color of the permit determines the color. Most departments require that you pass or attend EVOC or some equivalent class prior to getting your permit and the law even addresses the requirements for lights and sirens on authorized emergency vehicles. The only big missing peice I see is a requirement for insurance. It just so happens that most insurance companies will not insure a personal vehichle for use as an emergency vehicle however, VFIS, will write a policy to act as a rider to the department's personell's personal policies.
I have known many people who put a radio shack bubble light on a pinto with an alarm system siren and think they are an emergency vehicle and drive like they are in the crash up derby, but with training and discipline this can be avoided but each agency has to keep standards and hold people accountable when they respond to the station, to the scene or where ever with or with out emergency warning equipment. I do know of one law suit that was filed against a volunteer fire fighter, his department, and the county that hit a pedestrian while responding to a fire call without any warning equipment and it was argued that the vehicle was not properly marked nor was any visuale and audible warning device being used. The kicker was that the crazy idiot driving was on the sidewalk. Go figure you about have to loose that case. The point is, you don't have to have a red light to get in trouble.
Wow what a long post. Sorry if I bored anyone.
Goergia has one of the best systems for this I have seen after being envolved in four different states. In Georgia you have to actually get a permit which is approved by the head offical of the appropriate agency and is issued by the State Department of Motor Vehicles which authorizes you to use lights and sirens and the color of the permit determines the color. Most departments require that you pass or attend EVOC or some equivalent class prior to getting your permit and the law even addresses the requirements for lights and sirens on authorized emergency vehicles. The only big missing peice I see is a requirement for insurance. It just so happens that most insurance companies will not insure a personal vehichle for use as an emergency vehicle however, VFIS, will write a policy to act as a rider to the department's personell's personal policies.
I have known many people who put a radio shack bubble light on a pinto with an alarm system siren and think they are an emergency vehicle and drive like they are in the crash up derby, but with training and discipline this can be avoided but each agency has to keep standards and hold people accountable when they respond to the station, to the scene or where ever with or with out emergency warning equipment. I do know of one law suit that was filed against a volunteer fire fighter, his department, and the county that hit a pedestrian while responding to a fire call without any warning equipment and it was argued that the vehicle was not properly marked nor was any visuale and audible warning device being used. The kicker was that the crazy idiot driving was on the sidewalk. Go figure you about have to loose that case. The point is, you don't have to have a red light to get in trouble.
Wow what a long post. Sorry if I bored anyone.
"Once man has hunted armed man and liked it there is no other hunt like it."
Bored, no.chiefhal3 wrote: I have known many people who put a radio shack bubble light on a pinto with an alarm system siren and think they are an emergency vehicle and drive like they are in the crash up derby.
Wow what a long post. Sorry if I bored anyone.
Cracked up, yes.
alex wrote:Enough is enough. We aren't the world's police.
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Aces-Warehouse
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:27 pm
The way it is out here, is no lights while enroute. You may have clear on scene for scene safety. No colored lenses for volunteers. The way I see it is, leave it simple. We need extra help from volunteers, but Safety is the first priority, if you do speed, you can hurt yourself and others, which will make someone have to respond to you. I personally was a volunteer and only ran lights on scene. I had clear wig-wags and reverse light strobes in a S-10 4door blazer.
The idea of lights and siren for a volunteer is a good idea IF all responsibility is on the driver (never will happen, lawyers will fight it to death), speed limits either be obeyed and all laws obeyed (also not going to happen, there is one law in lamens terms says "do not modify vehicle past manufacturers specifications", meaning no lights or sirens added....) or they be REQUIRED to attend a EVOP class (Emergancy Vehicle Operating Procedures).
All in all, if you want the lights and toys, become a paid member. The lights and toys bring more responsibility. Yes you need to get there in a timely manner, but you need to be SAFE!
BTW: Call your insurance company, "We will not cover any vehicle not permitted by DOT for emergancy lighting. If we do cover your vehicle due to policy or permits, the rates will go up by over 50%. If you do get into an accident while "responding" to a call, and hurt anyone, or your property only, WE WILL NOT COVER IT!" Insurance companies will refuse to cover you or will increase policy prices by over 50%..... I doubt this is worth the trouble or the time or the money for the lights. and god/allah/devil/angels/whatever help you in the event of an accident, enroute or not, the liability of the coverage is very minimum of them actually covering your vehicle. They will consider you INSURANCELESS! Call and ask any insurance provider, or any sheriff's office. Trust me the rates will increase and your a$$ will be fully on the line 100% of the time while operating that vehicle.
The idea of lights and siren for a volunteer is a good idea IF all responsibility is on the driver (never will happen, lawyers will fight it to death), speed limits either be obeyed and all laws obeyed (also not going to happen, there is one law in lamens terms says "do not modify vehicle past manufacturers specifications", meaning no lights or sirens added....) or they be REQUIRED to attend a EVOP class (Emergancy Vehicle Operating Procedures).
All in all, if you want the lights and toys, become a paid member. The lights and toys bring more responsibility. Yes you need to get there in a timely manner, but you need to be SAFE!
BTW: Call your insurance company, "We will not cover any vehicle not permitted by DOT for emergancy lighting. If we do cover your vehicle due to policy or permits, the rates will go up by over 50%. If you do get into an accident while "responding" to a call, and hurt anyone, or your property only, WE WILL NOT COVER IT!" Insurance companies will refuse to cover you or will increase policy prices by over 50%..... I doubt this is worth the trouble or the time or the money for the lights. and god/allah/devil/angels/whatever help you in the event of an accident, enroute or not, the liability of the coverage is very minimum of them actually covering your vehicle. They will consider you INSURANCELESS! Call and ask any insurance provider, or any sheriff's office. Trust me the rates will increase and your a$$ will be fully on the line 100% of the time while operating that vehicle.
On a random thought.
Me: 22 year old male.
Car: 1991 Jeep Cherokee 4x4
Record: 1 ticket before age 18, found not guilty. 0 at-fault accidents.
Previous claims: none
Drivers education and training: Drivers ED at 15, defensive driving every year since, EVOC.
The policy: State minumum 25k/30k/50k plus uninsured motorist coverage.
Cost per year with Allstate WITHOUT emergency equipment: $495.10 (plus additional rider for installed equip) (paid annually)
Cost per year with Allstate WITH authorized equipment: $560.88 (plus the rider for installed equip)
The rider i have is $106 a year, covers up to 5k worth of installed and mounted non-oem equipment including radios, in the event of theft, fire, flood, damage in a wreck, etc.
50% more? Hardly. Not covered, yeah, right.
And, i bet my insurance rates are lower then some people on here twice my age.
Me: 22 year old male.
Car: 1991 Jeep Cherokee 4x4
Record: 1 ticket before age 18, found not guilty. 0 at-fault accidents.
Previous claims: none
Drivers education and training: Drivers ED at 15, defensive driving every year since, EVOC.
The policy: State minumum 25k/30k/50k plus uninsured motorist coverage.
Cost per year with Allstate WITHOUT emergency equipment: $495.10 (plus additional rider for installed equip) (paid annually)
Cost per year with Allstate WITH authorized equipment: $560.88 (plus the rider for installed equip)
The rider i have is $106 a year, covers up to 5k worth of installed and mounted non-oem equipment including radios, in the event of theft, fire, flood, damage in a wreck, etc.
50% more? Hardly. Not covered, yeah, right.
And, i bet my insurance rates are lower then some people on here twice my age.
alex wrote:Enough is enough. We aren't the world's police.
When I was a kid, my father was on the department in our hometown and had a good relationship with most of the regional and OPP members. There was the occasional guy who wanted to be a pain, though.
Barn fires and house fires were the order of the day for this department, and with a '75 GMC pumper, there was room for two guys to take the truck to the scene, and everyone else arrived in personal vehicles. Far as I know, nobody broke the speed limit or violated traffic laws (suuuuure...
) but there were a few times guys got pulled over, including my dad.
The cop blocked him in and parked so my dad couldn't get out of his car. He shouted across to him about cutting him off (the cruiser had been over 1/2 mile away from the intersection when my father turned in), and my father pointed to the fully involved barn up the road and said "We can discuss this or you can let me go deal with that." He let him go deal with the fire.
Another guy on the department had a Honda motorcycle, and like everyone else, kept his gear in a bag at home/whereever he was. One summer day they got toned out for a fire in town, and the truck had already responded. So he got into his roll-up boots and long black coat, strapped his fire helmet to the seat, and put on his m/c helmet, driving directly to the scene. He must've looked like Batman or something heading to the call with his coat flapping behind him.. caught the attention of another cop who followed him to the scene, saw what he was doing, and headed off without a word.
Here in Alberta, today, the government allows volunteers to use flashing green lights - courtesy only - "where a municipal by-law permits it". The municipality (aka county) refuses to enact a by-law, despite the fact 99% of the municipality is served by volunteers who live a significant distance away from the station. I'm not saying there wouldn't be people who would abuse the green lights, but it's frustrating when you have members that live 10-12 miles from the station who have to go through the biggest tourist area in the district in order to get to the station and respond.
--j.
Barn fires and house fires were the order of the day for this department, and with a '75 GMC pumper, there was room for two guys to take the truck to the scene, and everyone else arrived in personal vehicles. Far as I know, nobody broke the speed limit or violated traffic laws (suuuuure...
) but there were a few times guys got pulled over, including my dad.The cop blocked him in and parked so my dad couldn't get out of his car. He shouted across to him about cutting him off (the cruiser had been over 1/2 mile away from the intersection when my father turned in), and my father pointed to the fully involved barn up the road and said "We can discuss this or you can let me go deal with that." He let him go deal with the fire.
Another guy on the department had a Honda motorcycle, and like everyone else, kept his gear in a bag at home/whereever he was. One summer day they got toned out for a fire in town, and the truck had already responded. So he got into his roll-up boots and long black coat, strapped his fire helmet to the seat, and put on his m/c helmet, driving directly to the scene. He must've looked like Batman or something heading to the call with his coat flapping behind him.. caught the attention of another cop who followed him to the scene, saw what he was doing, and headed off without a word.
Here in Alberta, today, the government allows volunteers to use flashing green lights - courtesy only - "where a municipal by-law permits it". The municipality (aka county) refuses to enact a by-law, despite the fact 99% of the municipality is served by volunteers who live a significant distance away from the station. I'm not saying there wouldn't be people who would abuse the green lights, but it's frustrating when you have members that live 10-12 miles from the station who have to go through the biggest tourist area in the district in order to get to the station and respond.
--j.
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central150
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Too many..
Here in Mass., at least where I am, we can have red flashing lights as a courtsey only. The Fire Chief sends the paperwork to the DMV, who issues the permit. Were not supposed to break any trafifc laws, i.e. speed, stop sign violations. We are not allowed to have sirens in our town. I know of other towns in Mass. that call guys can have sirens.
-Tony
-Tony
There is no right answer, just lots of wrong ones.
This issue, as I have said before, can be debated either way with no one right answer. The only constant is there are plenty of wrong ones. I kind of agree with Aces to some degree. The only problem I have with I understand him to be saying is that it seems he implies being paid or not has some bearing on liablility. I guess since if you are paid the vehicle you are driving is probably owned by a municipal agency and they absord a greater share but you personally are still liable for your actions. Being paid doesn't let you off the hook. If I shoot someone while working my paid job that doesn't let me off the hook neither does hitting someone with my department vehicle or my personal vehicle.
As for insurance, Statefarm, my personal insurance, doesn't offer insurance to individuals on personal vehicles and specify if they are equiped with warning equipment or not. However, the agent says he has never heard of them denying a claim based on that. Nonetheless, our volunteer fire department has a special policy just for that purpose. I think the annual payment is about $3200 and covers private vehicles of our people responding to fires or other department business regardless of running lights and siren or not. They don't care what the vehicle is but they do care who the drivers are and we have to furnish a list. I assume they run a driver's history on everyone. They have never sent us a letter saying they won't cover a particular person though.
One thing that will run true is that most paid law enforcement and firefighters will lean to the side of volunteers not running lights and sirens and most voluteers in both law enforcement and fire fighting lean to the side of them running them.
A final note is I strongly encourage all departments and all members paid or volunteer to have a driver training program.
Just one last thought even though above I said that was a final thought. I think it quite odd that a common theme with reserve law enforcement officers is that you get issued bullets but you have to buy your own gun. Perhaps that will change the topic.
As for insurance, Statefarm, my personal insurance, doesn't offer insurance to individuals on personal vehicles and specify if they are equiped with warning equipment or not. However, the agent says he has never heard of them denying a claim based on that. Nonetheless, our volunteer fire department has a special policy just for that purpose. I think the annual payment is about $3200 and covers private vehicles of our people responding to fires or other department business regardless of running lights and siren or not. They don't care what the vehicle is but they do care who the drivers are and we have to furnish a list. I assume they run a driver's history on everyone. They have never sent us a letter saying they won't cover a particular person though.
One thing that will run true is that most paid law enforcement and firefighters will lean to the side of volunteers not running lights and sirens and most voluteers in both law enforcement and fire fighting lean to the side of them running them.
A final note is I strongly encourage all departments and all members paid or volunteer to have a driver training program.
Just one last thought even though above I said that was a final thought. I think it quite odd that a common theme with reserve law enforcement officers is that you get issued bullets but you have to buy your own gun. Perhaps that will change the topic.
"Once man has hunted armed man and liked it there is no other hunt like it."
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southall65
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:27 pm
MD Vehicle regs
MARYLAND
Summation: Maryland law prohibits the use of flashing, rotating, or blinking blue lights on any non-emergency vehicle. While the law 22-218 prohibits any flashing, rotating, or blinking lights (of any color), there is another code, 22-221, that allows the use of forward-facing flasing lights between the colors of white and amber, and rearward-facing lights between the colors of red and amber. The limitations are that the lights must flash simultaneously (no wig-wags), and must be mounted as far apart as practical, i.e., not mounted behind the grill. One spotlight is legal. Sirens may only be installed as part of an alarm system and MAY NOT be operable by the driver. Scanners are legal.
Impersonation is defined as the use of any law enfocement agency's badge, patch, insignia, uniform, button, ornament, identification, or emblem of office to misrepresent yourself. There is no mention of police-looking vehicles.
Foreign (out-of-state) vehicles may be operated in Maryland with any equipment that is legal in their home states (for example: Pennsylvania firefighters may drive vehicles with blue lights, but they may not use them except in the event of an emergency.)
Applicable Codes:
Transportation 22-217, Spot Lamps, Fog Lights, and Auxiliary Driving Lamps
Transportation 22-218, Vehicle Equipment; Flasing, Oscillation, and Rotating Lights and Sirens
Transportation 22-226, Use of Headlamps, Auxiliary, and Spot Lamps
Transportation 22-221, This is the exception to 22-218
Crimes and Punishments 440, Police Impersonation
Summation: Maryland law prohibits the use of flashing, rotating, or blinking blue lights on any non-emergency vehicle. While the law 22-218 prohibits any flashing, rotating, or blinking lights (of any color), there is another code, 22-221, that allows the use of forward-facing flasing lights between the colors of white and amber, and rearward-facing lights between the colors of red and amber. The limitations are that the lights must flash simultaneously (no wig-wags), and must be mounted as far apart as practical, i.e., not mounted behind the grill. One spotlight is legal. Sirens may only be installed as part of an alarm system and MAY NOT be operable by the driver. Scanners are legal.
Impersonation is defined as the use of any law enfocement agency's badge, patch, insignia, uniform, button, ornament, identification, or emblem of office to misrepresent yourself. There is no mention of police-looking vehicles.
Foreign (out-of-state) vehicles may be operated in Maryland with any equipment that is legal in their home states (for example: Pennsylvania firefighters may drive vehicles with blue lights, but they may not use them except in the event of an emergency.)
Applicable Codes:
Transportation 22-217, Spot Lamps, Fog Lights, and Auxiliary Driving Lamps
Transportation 22-218, Vehicle Equipment; Flasing, Oscillation, and Rotating Lights and Sirens
Transportation 22-226, Use of Headlamps, Auxiliary, and Spot Lamps
Transportation 22-221, This is the exception to 22-218
Crimes and Punishments 440, Police Impersonation
Hello all, Here in Upstate ny (Broome county) we (vol) can use one blue light and siren. Ambulance volunteers can use green with no siren...You are only allowed to go the spped limit and thats It...You do need a Blue/Green light permit if you run one....Fire chiefs can run red and sirens only....
Just my 2 cents...
Great board.....
Just my 2 cents...
Great board.....
Bill
kc2kuy
Search & Rescue
Kenwood TK-2140
kc2kuy
Search & Rescue
Kenwood TK-2140
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afterimage84
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:09 pm
kc2kuy wrote:Hello all, Here in Upstate ny (Broome county) we (vol) can use one blue light and siren. Ambulance volunteers can use green with no siren...You are only allowed to go the spped limit and thats It...You do need a Blue/Green light permit if you run one....Fire chiefs can run red and sirens only....
Just my 2 cents...
Great board.....
i think MASS does it right with police blue, fire red...period. i am federal and have a siren, headlights that flash and strobe inserts all over the place. i live in CT and here is the whole blue fire, red police thing....as anyone in ct can tell you...some police are quite overzealous in the pursuit of vol ff's. heres the fun part. here you cannot have blue and a siren, but i can because that what i was given in the car. i vol ff too...so depending on where i am going to in a hurry depends on if the siren is on or off. i got lit up one day and explained the deal to one big hat who just couldn't get it through his thick skull, this set of credentials says i can. he told me they were fake. nice. i asked him to run the plate, as he clearly had not due to the speed that he exited his vehicle to scream and yell. he stammered and stormed back to his car, returned and apologized perfusely.
any way back to the topic at hand. i think that vols SHOULD have it and agree with previous posts with some training....and review. we, like any other dept, have our share of "gung ho" idiots goin 100 mph to an activated fire alarm. thats just no good. oddly its not just the "younger" guys either. i am not sure there is a solution that will be positive for both sides...i know i don't have one. i do think on the the one hand if you have the lights, you SHOULD have audible warning. BUT...some people just do not understand that wailers and spinners do not really matter to the general public and you must operate your vehicle with due regard. just becuase you have them does not mean others see, hear or CARE you are there...unless you are going to thier house...then it's "WHY AREN'T THESE PEOPLE MOVING"...or "WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG!?"
two cents
Bill,kc2kuy wrote:Hello all, Here in Upstate ny (Broome county) we (vol) can use one blue light and siren. Ambulance volunteers can use green with no siren...You are only allowed to go the spped limit and thats It...You do need a Blue/Green light permit if you run one....Fire chiefs can run red and sirens only....
I think you need to check NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law. In NYS, the use of flashing red lights, flashing white lights, or sirens is restricted to 'authorized emergency vehicles' only. Rank-and-file volunteer firefighters may be authorized by their departments to display a blue flashing light - but no siren. (There is one exception, and I'll go into it below). EMS Personnel may be authorized by their departments to display a green flashing light - but no siren. (the same exception as above applies). Fire Chiefs' personal vehicles may be considered 'authorized emergency vehicles' under NYS V&T. Also, (here's the exception mentioned above) a department that participates in the DOH EMS program (that is, a fire or ems agency that has a NYS DOH EMS Agency Code) MAY authorize a member to display red and/or white flashing lights and a siren, provided that vehicle meets the requirements for an 'emergency ambulance service vehicle' as described in Part 800 of the NYS Public Health code.
NYS V&T also goes as far as saying that blue or green may not be used in combination with any other color (including amber). There was a BIG to-do recently about the NYSP putting blue lenses in their new Vista bars. Oddly enough, three bills immediately were introduced (but not yet passed) that prohibit this, and (at least around here) the blue lights in the bars are gone.
Now, I know I'm going to hear 'It's different down here' or 'my department lets me do...' That's the way the law is. If people turn a blind eye down there, that's a different issue. If a volunteer firefighter in most other parts of the state ran a siren with his/her blue light, they's be screwed, blued, and tattooed.
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c17loadsmasher
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:26 pm
If a cop appears behind me with his blue lights on, I'm going to assume that he's going to the same call I am . In SC you can go over the speedlimit, with *due regard to safety* and also go through stop signs/red lights provided the emergency vehicle come to a complete stop prior to 'busting red.' SC's minimum requirements for emergency vehicles are to have 360 degrees and an audible warning device (siren). When EV is in motion with lights on, siren is to be on as well. There are some people with light packages that rival show cars from Whelen / FedSig.
. In SC you can go over the speedlimit, with *due regard to safety* and also go through stop signs/red lights provided the emergency vehicle come to a complete stop prior to 'busting red.' SC's minimum requirements for emergency vehicles are to have 360 degrees and an audible warning device (siren). When EV is in motion with lights on, siren is to be on as well. There are some people with light packages that rival show cars from Whelen / FedSig.Plain language is the DEVIL. Ten-Codes Forever!!!