RSS Speed Question

Nickdap · Post by **Nickdap** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 9:36 pm

Hello,
Is there a minimum speed req. for dos based rss from around 2000. I have a P133 laptop which has a speed limiter option that when tested using a dos CPU speed checker comes down to 7 Mhz from around 133 Mhz. Is this to slow. ive run the rss with out the rib and it runs a little slugish but only when your actually changing things.
Nick

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:30 am

Nick: No, there is a MAXIMUM speed you should be seeking, if you're running a DOS-based RSS. That maximum is 25 Mhz or thereabouts, preferably a 486 processor.
(The RSS always runs slow when downloading into the radio, by the way; it's just the way it is.)
You can use an XT, a 286, a 386, or a 486, but a P133 is probably 'way too fast to work properly. You should also be running true DOS and not the imitation DOS which runs under W95 and W98.

You may also want to make a thorough search of this topic on this board to see that others have written the same exact thing that I have written above.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

cracked · Post by **cracked** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:59 am

On 2002-03-08 09:30, Tom in D.C. wrote:
Nick: No, there is a MAXIMUM speed you should be seeking, if you're running a DOS-based RSS. That maximum is 25 Mhz or thereabouts, preferably a 486 processor.
(The RSS always runs slow when downloading into the radio, by the way; it's just the way it is.)
You can use an XT, a 286, a 386, or a 486, but a P133 is probably 'way too fast to work properly. You should also be running true DOS and not the imitation DOS which runs under W95 and W98.

You may also want to make a thorough search of this topic on this board to see that others have written the same exact thing that I have written above.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

at our shop, we've been using a i486dx2/66mhz PC to run DOS-based RSS for years. it's programmed thousands of portables with no problems. most techs i've spoken to about CPU speed and DOS RSS will usually say avoid pentiums and anything over 100 mhz.

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:49 am

I should have mentioned that I also am able to use a P66 in DOS 6.2 to run this stuff as well. The machine has NO GUI programs on it at all. But I still feel better when I use the old Toshiba 386!

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

Post by **wavetar** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:24 pm

Everyone's mileage will vary between makes & models. I personally have used a Pentium 120MHz laptop for most of my programming for the past couple of years, and wouldn't trade it for the world. It quite literally saved me many days worth of labour time compared to my 486-25MHz when I had thousands of radios to program for our provincial radio system. I have done even MCX1000's with it, no troubles at all.

In a non-Windows environment, the COM ports are directly hardware controlled via chipset by your motherboard. The trouble with Windows is it "emulates" the COM ports for software, then has to translate it & then direct it to the COM port chipset. This extra "software layer" screws up many DOS software programs, not just RSS. If you boot your computer properly, either with a DOS only partition or a boot disk for instance, Windows CAN'T get in the way, and your success will be a combination of hardware & processor speed dependant.

That said, re-booting in "MS-DOS mode" from the shut down menu, and even booting into "command prompt only" from the "F8" power-up menu still have the Windows shell in effect, and will interfere with the RSS read/write. This causes many people to say any Windows computer is a bad choice for programming. Not true, if you boot it properly.

Todd

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:44 pm

I have been using a Grid 486-sx computer for years but recetly have been using a Fujitsu 280dx with a 266 pentium MMX processor, I run under the window 98se full dos switch and have been programming my XTS3500 and Spectras with the DOS RSS with not one problem. I also use it with the CPS programs for the Astro spectra, saber and the Pro series. When I go to thr DOS RSS I have it set up to go out of windows to DOS not a dos shell.
So far so good, I have spent the last week here in DC with many of the federal radio shops and alot of them are using compac PIII computers with Win 98 in the same mode to program some of their radio's, sabers and spectras in DOS mode with no problems.

Maybe we are all just real lucky. Also anyone heard about a windows version of software for the XTS3500???

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Mar 09, 2002 3:16 pm

Sounds like some are lucky and others are not.

KEY WORD here is to run the older RSS in a pure DOS booted from DOS 6.xx. The Windows 9x, 2K, Mil., & XP all do tricky things to some computer serial ports and not others and this is what usally causes programming failures, and the internal DOS, if you will, is not compatible to the DOS 6.22 for which the RSS was written for.
BE SURE always check first, when in doubt, run pure DOS 6.xx.
Note here as the Windows 9x and later "operating systems" were up-graded and changed the serial port handling capabilities went south.

Nickdap · Post by **Nickdap** » Sat Mar 09, 2002 5:37 pm

Thanks alot guys for all the input, well time to break out the old 486 id say with dos 6 and windows 3.11. Have to admit works pritty darn well, as a normal pc at least. But i will make a boot disk so not even 3.11 can get in the way. Again thanks for the help. oh an also what can happen if 95 did stuff up? whats the worst that could happen?
nick

Post by **wavetar** » Sat Mar 09, 2002 6:36 pm

The worst that could happen is you corrupt your radio codeplug & turn your radio into a brick! This can easily happen if you try to read/write the radio through a DOS window. Just boot it properly with a boot disk or use the "MS-DOS Mode for Games with EMS & XMS support" shortcut, located in the "C:Windows" directory in any Windows 98 computer. This will ensure Windows doesn't get in the way.

Todd

Will · Post by **Will** » Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:00 pm

Nickdap has the right idea. You don't have to wory with Win 3.1x, just do not have the autoexec.bat do the "win" command that starts Windows.
When in doubt leave as much of old Bill OUT of the computeras possible, I do.

Will · Post by **Will** » Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:08 pm

Wavetar, I have run into problems with that Win9x mode, altho I have used Windows 95b with the GUI set to "=0" in the MSDOS.SYS file so windows never accually loads and starts unless you type "win" and press Enter.
With the later Windows operating systems there is still the issue of how the OS handels the serial port(s).

safer to boot 6.xx. "we boot to DOS6.22"

April · Post by **April** » Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:10 pm

Nickadp and Will, that is what we do, boot to dos 6.22 or when using the other computer with Windows 95, it boots to the dos prompt.
I try to stay away from the Windows crap. I want to learn this Linix s/w.

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:12 pm

On 2002-03-10 21:08, Will wrote:
Wavetar, I have run into problems with that Win9x mode, altho I have used Windows 95b with the GUI set to "=0" in the MSDOS.SYS file so windows never accually loads and starts unless you type "win" and press Enter.
With the later Windows operating systems there is still the issue of how the OS handels the serial port(s).

safer to boot 6.xx. "we boot to DOS6.22"

I'm not sure what to tell you...you claim to have used the "gui=0" in 95b, so you have to type "Win" at the prompt and press enter to start the Windows loading. Did it work for your RSS? The method I advocate is similar but even better, in the fact that you cannot get Windows to load, by typing "Win", or even by rebooting the computer! Rebooting will result in the computer booting into DOS yet again. You must type "exit" at the prompt to begin loading Windows. There is no Windows in the way, the serial port is hardware dependent ONLY, there is no Windows emulation layer! I know I will not change your mind on this, and there is nothing wrong with advocating a DOS only 486, but until I have an actual problem with this, and it can be solved by using a DOS 6.22 boot disk, I will continue to suggest it as a viable alternative.

Todd

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:16 pm

The win95b loading only the DOS and not starting the windows portion by using the GUI=0 in the msdos.sys file works on most RSS but does not on R100, P200, Mt1000 just to name a few.
I need to add in here that we have modified our RIBs to increase the serial speed capability, which eliminates most serial port colision related errors.
The older the RSS, the more tempermental so I allways use DOS 6.22 or DOS 5.0 on the Toshiba portable, for the older stuf.
I have not taken a chance on some to see what they will do and do not want to make any "doorstops".
An option is to make a BOOT disk from the WINDOWS 95A original version, that is found to be safer than the later Win9x OS and seems to work on most computers.
But I agree, what works for some may not work for others, a lot of testing done here has proved that.

Sniper · Post by **Sniper** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 7:41 pm

I still must count my blessings....

I've used a PIII machine running Win98SE to do a ton of HT1000's and Visars, and never had a problem. And this was running the RSS from within Win98 (albeit in full screen mode to use the correct video driver).