Centracom Gold Elite sticking on TX

QFL · Post by **QFL** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:17 am

There is nothing like that call at 2:00am with a frantic dispatcher on the other end to wreck a weekend. Lately I have had problems with a freshly installed Centracom console with LCD - Touch-screen monitors intermittently locking up and sticking on transmit on the selected chanel until the COIM is reset. This happens about once every 3 weeks on the one position that is used the most. I have called /\/\ about this, but so far their answer is "we havent heard of it before. therefore this problem does not exist. Call us when you have a real problem." This will not work. I am working with another vendor in the area, and their fix was to reboot the PC's every month. This has cut down their problems, but did not eliminate them.

I was wondering if anyone else has had the same/similar problem, and what resolve did you find?

Advice is always welcome. Criticism is good only if it is constructive.

-QFL

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:06 pm

I'm not clear from the info in your post...Is it only happening on the one console? Or just more often on that particular console? Aside from resetting the COIM, does resetting the computer also clear the trouble? I'm wondering if it's a touch screen bug that's causing it. What O/S platform are you running? Is this a conventional only system, or trunked as well? I'm surprised Motorola didn't advise you to put a computer running Hyperterminal onto the active TIMI or COIM to try & capture the fault. Then you'd have hard evidence their engineering guys would have to look at. Do you have a Motorola FTR in your area you could get involved the next time it happens?

Todd

QFL · Post by **QFL** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:43 pm

Is it only happening on the one console? - Yes (that we know)

does resetting the computer also clear the trouble? - No. Radio is still stuck on TX with open mic.

What O/S platform are you running? - W2K

Is this a conventional only system, or trunked as well? - Conventional with MDC on some channels

I have had a PC running hyper terminal, and it is logging results. so far, nothing conclusive has shown up in that report. I did get a call back from /\/\ and they said to double check the grounding. Okay, I guess that cant hurt.

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:19 pm

Ok, that answers a few things. The computer doesn't seem to be involved. The first thing I would try is swapping the affected COIM with another in the CEB. Don't forget to change the TDM address switches for each card. While you have them out, it wouldn't hurt to double-check the jumpers & firmware versions, be ensure everything matches. If in 3 or 4 weeks the problem follows the COIM, time for a warranty replacement. If the problem shows up at the same OP position, with the different COIM, it's time to start looking at TDM addressing. There are sometimes issues with certain TDM addresses, which vary depending on O/S, service pack versions, firmware releases, etc. It might be as simple as changing the TDM address in the CDM & on the COIM to get things running smoothly. Just out of curiosity, what TDM range are you using for your COIMs?

Todd

QFL · Post by **QFL** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:35 pm

The TDM addressing of this system goes up into the 50's (HEX). they have a lot of spare cards in the system for redundancy and future expantion. as for the COIM's, they vary in address ranges from 5 to 47 (HEX). This is per /\/\ asbuilt. I plan to exchange the COIM with a position rarely used. if problems continue, then we have a case on our hands - no doubt!

Salem The Cat · Post by **Salem The Cat** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:20 pm

Touch screen monitor on Elite systems = Instant Transmit button present

Try swapping in another monitor, or disable the serial connection
for the touch screen driver, and just use the physical transmit bar
on the CIE for the duration.

If problem disappears, then you know it's the touch screen.
If problem still present, yes, further diagnostics are called for.

Post by **xmo** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:47 pm

Interesting problem AND you are NOT alone!

There is another new gold console [in Iowa yet!] that is doing the exact same thing.

Of course Motorola told the shop there the same thing 'no - never heard of that one before', but I think what they meant to say is 'we don't have a clue as to what is causing this'.

Anyway, Motorola sent them a brand new COIM to replace the OP that seemed to be the one with the problem and it has been stable for a couple weeks. The case is still open at the SSC.

My personal guess is a bug in the currently shipping COIM firmware, but time will tell.

Don Miller · Post by **Don Miller** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:46 pm

We have a new Centracom Gold Elete with 20 operator positions which was turned up in Sept. last year. As of today we have had the sticking in TX problem three times at three different positions. Motorola has been advised of the problem and has not yet responded. Each time the problem has been cleared by restarting the console application software. Is there any new news about this issue?

QFL · Post by **QFL** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:33 am

Just to follow up, here is what I found out:

When I tried swapping the COIM with another, the problem stayed with the dispatch position.

I called Motorola, and they finally opened a case for me (10333358).

Origionally, we thought that when the dispatchers are changing shifts and the replacement plugs in their headset, things would lock up. we suspected grounding to be a problem. so we went in and took everything to ground (CIE,PC,Monitor, and Headset Jack). we found that this had little effect on the problem.

Next, motorola was curious what versions we were running (big suprise). naturally, we had a mix of 2. We found a bug in the first version that /\/\ would not replace or fix without paying for new software. when the customer upgraded some cards, it came with a newer version that I upgraded them to. /\/\ said that they would not help us unless EVERYTHING was the same Year/Quarter of software AND FIRMWARE. it was cheaper for us to take everything back to the origional release that we received and see what happens.

Nothing happened for a while and the case was closed. but then like a monster in the shadows, it happened again. so to this day I have no resolve. they are still running the origional version, and living with the bugs we found.

the closest thing that I found to the cause was the headset jack. if it is a 6 wire jack, it is possible for a dispatcher to partially insert the plug and it will cause the radio to key up. This still does not explain how this could lock up the PC and COIM at the same time.

FYI - the version we got away from is Q2/2003

I hope this helps.

-QFL

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:04 am

A dollar to a dime says it is the touch screen.

PCs send one scan code when a key is pressed and another when it is released. The keys were really not intended to be held down for any length of time.

Touch screens, most of which use either tiny embedded wires in a plastic shield or some form of beam blocking in the X and Y axes, are less reliable than keyboards for all functions, and this is doubtless one of them.

Try swapping monitors and see if the problem follows the monitor. If so, therein lies the problem.

Don Miller · Post by **Don Miller** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:07 pm

Thanks for the information. We do not have 6 wire jacks, however the problem did occur when the operator plugged in. The equipment is grounded and then some. All software and firmware is the same verson and the system was installed by Motorola and is in warrenty. This may get interesting. Also we do not have touch screens. Last time this happened the operator had 7 channels selected and they all went into transmitt until the console application was closed.

Post by **wavetar** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:27 pm

QFL wrote:/\/\ said that they would not help us unless EVERYTHING was the same Year/Quarter of software AND FIRMWARE.

That doesn't surprise me in the least. There are so many things to engineer & test in each different release, there's no way Motorola can tell what's going to happen when they get mixed. It's a pain, but also a reality. We are currently running identical software & firmware in all 6 CEB's & dispatch centers on the provincial SmartZone system. When it comes time to upgrade, every single COIM/AIMI/LOMI/BIM, etc must have the exact same firmware version (hundreds of cards) and every console must be running the same version of Centracom software. It's a somewhat daunting task...I'm glad Motorola is organizing it & not me!

Be aware that even the Win2k Service Packs must be the same!

Is it still just the single console? You have eliminated the COIM as a suspect. Have you tried changing the touch screen, just for kicks? I have no experience with them, but others here seem to think it's the issue. If you've already tried that, I'd go with switching computers with another OP position. You'll have to switch the computer name for each of them of course. If the problem still occurs at the same OP, the next choice is swapping the CIE. If it still occurs after all that, I'd look at one of my original suggestions & change the TDM address of that OP in the CDM & on the COIM.

By the way, if your headsets don't have their own PTT switches, you can cut one of the jumpers in the headset jack to eliminate the partially inserted plugs causing the OP to transmit. I don't know which one off hand, I think it's JU4...it's easy to find in the headset jack schematic.

Todd

Don Miller · Post by **Don Miller** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:02 am

This is the third time the problem has occured, the first two times the jack station was not involved as the operators had been in place for some time. Each time the problem has occured it has been a different position. Our jack stations do not have the PTT lead connected and we do not use touch screens. Still no word from our trouble report to motorola yesterday.

Post by **xmo** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:59 am

Word is that you can make this problem happen [sticking on transmit] at an Elite position by executing a group page containing more than 12 individual pages. This assumes the originating op position is programmed for 'simultaneous paging'. You can resolve the problem by using smaller groups or by reprogramming the op to 'sequential paging' [recommended]