I have a msf5000 cxb digital capable 800 mhz repeater I have been using in the conventional mode, pl access. I installed a secure board, moved the jumpers and changed the codeplug settings including transparent setting and xl setting and tried a second secure board. While the repeater still operates fine in pl access mode, it will key up in secure mode des-xl, but not pass audio. That is the problem.
I have used a couple handhelds that will talk to each other in secure, and reloaded the key differently but the audio still does not pass, I wouldn't think this had anything to do, but give it a shot since I have tried everything else. The rx secure led light comes on when the secure signal comes in, the repeater keys and again no audio passing. In the rss maintenance setup for secure it says to move ju2, 3 and 10 I think, I got this from f1 info and then press f3 to setup the secure board which I have done. Reset the repeater and still no success. While the codeplug would be large to display here, I can send it to whoever thinks they can look it over to see if I got something set wrong. I suspect a sscb board jumper and or secure board (only two there) jumper begin the problem, second would would be maybe harmonic filter may not let the secure signal pass. The secure has no hybrids since I am only running this in transparent mode and not needed, also the ttrc board is not connected, shouldn't be needed also since no wireline etc.. That is a guess? Open for suggestions after I have conferred with a few of the members here via email and so far no luck on getting it going.
Sam
MSF5000 secure board setup audio problem
Moderator: Queue Moderator
My two bits worth:
Since the station keys, we know that the signal is getting to the secure board, and that the secure board is communicating with the control buss.
I would next look at the signal path to the modulator.
I have asked several times: Do you get the 1kc square wave at 4kc deviation on the secure alignment screen?
Does it have a nice flat top and bottom?
If not the VCO compensation needs to be set, or there may be a problem in the UNI board.
What does the output modulation of the transmitter look like when the station is attempting to transmit secure?
You should have the "eye" pattern just as the hand held has.
There are several versions of the SSCB. Which one do you have?
I need to trace the path to see what jumpers are involved.
Since the station keys, we know that the signal is getting to the secure board, and that the secure board is communicating with the control buss.
I would next look at the signal path to the modulator.
I have asked several times: Do you get the 1kc square wave at 4kc deviation on the secure alignment screen?
Does it have a nice flat top and bottom?
If not the VCO compensation needs to be set, or there may be a problem in the UNI board.
What does the output modulation of the transmitter look like when the station is attempting to transmit secure?
You should have the "eye" pattern just as the hand held has.
There are several versions of the SSCB. Which one do you have?
I need to trace the path to see what jumpers are involved.
Aloha, Bernie
Bernie,
There are no square wave on the alignment screen, and no display on the the output of the transmitter either in the secure mode which is the problem I have mentioned to you before. The handheld does have the eye pattern as you mention and it works, the problem is the repeater secure audio path, which I can bring the repeater down from the repeater site and go thru it tracing the signal as you say, which would be much easier but I was hoping to repair it on site via software or jumper setting or whatever I am missing on this setup, if that be the case. 185lbs and two hour roundtrip was what I was hoping to avoid, if I ran across a simple fix at the site. To bring it down and find, hopefully a jumper or simple fix in a few minutes, then have to take it back is what I am trying to avoid as it is cold, rain and snow and wind howling up there to load it up and bring it back, sure not your hawaii weather conditions!
The sscb board is a tln3189a311d5 and the secure board is a tln3045b471ga with jumpers ju4002 and ju4004 set to the normal position. I am looking for the correct jumper settings for the sscb board when using a secure board is installed so I may have the correect audio path set, which I am thinking now is where the problem lies. I have ju3, ju10 and ju13 set as per the secure board init board installation instructions.
Sam
There are no square wave on the alignment screen, and no display on the the output of the transmitter either in the secure mode which is the problem I have mentioned to you before. The handheld does have the eye pattern as you mention and it works, the problem is the repeater secure audio path, which I can bring the repeater down from the repeater site and go thru it tracing the signal as you say, which would be much easier but I was hoping to repair it on site via software or jumper setting or whatever I am missing on this setup, if that be the case. 185lbs and two hour roundtrip was what I was hoping to avoid, if I ran across a simple fix at the site. To bring it down and find, hopefully a jumper or simple fix in a few minutes, then have to take it back is what I am trying to avoid as it is cold, rain and snow and wind howling up there to load it up and bring it back, sure not your hawaii weather conditions!
The sscb board is a tln3189a311d5 and the secure board is a tln3045b471ga with jumpers ju4002 and ju4004 set to the normal position. I am looking for the correct jumper settings for the sscb board when using a secure board is installed so I may have the correect audio path set, which I am thinking now is where the problem lies. I have ju3, ju10 and ju13 set as per the secure board init board installation instructions.
Sam
Sam:
I have been looking in the book.
There is only one jumper in the encripted audio path: SSCB JU3
Audio path: the signal origninates in the generator on the SECURE board,
>summing network>splatter filter>TP1 (4.8 V Sq wave on test signal).> Secure IDC EEPOT (Secure Deviation)>P803-6>SSCB JU-3>R8101 in summing network>U8200 Mod amp.
Since the repeater clear audio is OK we can assume the problem is before JU-3.
I think that the EEPOT may be at Zero. Try to run the EEPOT to both
extremes several times.
Using an Oscilloscope measure Secure TP1 with the station in the Secure alignment screen, key with F7 Measure TP1, then TP-3 to see where the signal went.
There is very little in the Secure signal path. I think that the missing 1KC test square wave is the key to solving your problem.
Notes:
TP 1 on the Secure board is near the battery outline.
JU4004 is the input filter, which should be in the normal (in) position the
other jumpers ar of no concern: Mrti audio, key erase.
I have been looking in the book.
There is only one jumper in the encripted audio path: SSCB JU3
Audio path: the signal origninates in the generator on the SECURE board,
>summing network>splatter filter>TP1 (4.8 V Sq wave on test signal).> Secure IDC EEPOT (Secure Deviation)>P803-6>SSCB JU-3>R8101 in summing network>U8200 Mod amp.
Since the repeater clear audio is OK we can assume the problem is before JU-3.
I think that the EEPOT may be at Zero. Try to run the EEPOT to both
extremes several times.
Using an Oscilloscope measure Secure TP1 with the station in the Secure alignment screen, key with F7 Measure TP1, then TP-3 to see where the signal went.
There is very little in the Secure signal path. I think that the missing 1KC test square wave is the key to solving your problem.
Notes:
TP 1 on the Secure board is near the battery outline.
JU4004 is the input filter, which should be in the normal (in) position the
other jumpers ar of no concern: Mrti audio, key erase.
Aloha, Bernie
Thanks Bernie, I will give that a try and let you know how it comes out. I have also been going thru the manual again and I have the section that deals with the secure board out and I will makes some notes and study the audio path on it. Also leading back to the sscb board too.
I have another msf5000 here I could put the extra secure board in it and benchwork with it to learn what could be the problem, just a thought, it is vhf, but I can program/key up a vhf secure radio for that. Don't have the r2001d with the secure test module! but I can do it the other way too.
Let you know later in the week.
Sam
I have another msf5000 here I could put the extra secure board in it and benchwork with it to learn what could be the problem, just a thought, it is vhf, but I can program/key up a vhf secure radio for that. Don't have the r2001d with the secure test module! but I can do it the other way too.
Let you know later in the week.
Sam
Sam:
Here are some thoughts on your problem:
Test equipment:
I have set these up with a Cushman CE4B. You don't need A R2001D
secure system analyzer for this job.
The place where the DVP test equipment is required is where wire line circuits, consoles and so forth need levels set, as well as troubleshooting wire line modems, and CIUs
(Console Interface Unit).
Being a "transparent" repeater no such complexities exist.
The "baseband" from the receiver feeds the Secure board via P803-27
(Quad audio) There is a jumper for the input filter on the secure board
JU4004, normal.
The output of the secure circuit feeds a splatter filter, then secure EEPOT, then on to the Control board via P803-7, JU-3 to the modulation summer network.
The Secure board generates it's own test signal, so it is not necessary to set up with a duplex generator as you would a clear repeater.
There are no adjustments in the receive side.
As far as programming is concerned the .def file for conventional repeater has everything enabled. You have removed the TTRC, and set the option jumpers. It should work. The transparent board works, or it dosn't. Never saw one fail yet.
Since the repeater keys on DES, and the lights come on, the board must be communicating on the MUX Buss, and the receive path is intact.
Neither the board you have, nor a spare will transmit a test signal.
My guess would be that the EEPOT is at Zero, the summing resistor(R8101) is missing, or there is a physical break in the TX audio path.
On occasion it is necessary to run the EEPOT to both extremes to get it to operate correctly. Use page up & down keys.
Here are some thoughts on your problem:
Test equipment:
I have set these up with a Cushman CE4B. You don't need A R2001D
secure system analyzer for this job.
The place where the DVP test equipment is required is where wire line circuits, consoles and so forth need levels set, as well as troubleshooting wire line modems, and CIUs
(Console Interface Unit).
Being a "transparent" repeater no such complexities exist.
The "baseband" from the receiver feeds the Secure board via P803-27
(Quad audio) There is a jumper for the input filter on the secure board
JU4004, normal.
The output of the secure circuit feeds a splatter filter, then secure EEPOT, then on to the Control board via P803-7, JU-3 to the modulation summer network.
The Secure board generates it's own test signal, so it is not necessary to set up with a duplex generator as you would a clear repeater.
There are no adjustments in the receive side.
As far as programming is concerned the .def file for conventional repeater has everything enabled. You have removed the TTRC, and set the option jumpers. It should work. The transparent board works, or it dosn't. Never saw one fail yet.
Since the repeater keys on DES, and the lights come on, the board must be communicating on the MUX Buss, and the receive path is intact.
Neither the board you have, nor a spare will transmit a test signal.
My guess would be that the EEPOT is at Zero, the summing resistor(R8101) is missing, or there is a physical break in the TX audio path.
On occasion it is necessary to run the EEPOT to both extremes to get it to operate correctly. Use page up & down keys.
Aloha, Bernie
msf5000 secure board setup audio problem
"On occasion it is necessary to run the EEPOT to both extremes to get it to operate correctly."
This got it going Bernie, thanks. Now to keep it from keying "kerchunking" which I suspect is the digital TV station putting the initial digital signal in that causes it to come up. I think F6, secure sensitivety level is set to high, may have to move that to medium or low.
Sam
This got it going Bernie, thanks. Now to keep it from keying "kerchunking" which I suspect is the digital TV station putting the initial digital signal in that causes it to come up. I think F6, secure sensitivety level is set to high, may have to move that to medium or low.
Sam
My two bits worth:
I am glad to hear you have it operating.
I have never had the experience of being co site with a high power digital TV transmitter.
Fortunately I have had very little problems with the MSF as far as external transmitters getting into the circuitry.
I presume that the secure board is V4.22, and the station was programmed with RSS V5.21
There is a known issue of the secure board falsing momentarily on voice peaks. This was fixed in V5.21 RSS.
I do not know what the other adjustments will do. I have always left the Secure board at default.
It might be interesting to observe the receive audio (Quad audio) with a 'scope to see if the TV signal is present on the detected signal, or if the problem is else where.
I do not recall the band of operation of your station. If interference
is entering via the antenna port, I would also expect that there is some receiver desense.
Before we can fix your problem, we must first define exactly what the problem is.
Happy hunting!
I am glad to hear you have it operating.
I have never had the experience of being co site with a high power digital TV transmitter.
Fortunately I have had very little problems with the MSF as far as external transmitters getting into the circuitry.
I presume that the secure board is V4.22, and the station was programmed with RSS V5.21
There is a known issue of the secure board falsing momentarily on voice peaks. This was fixed in V5.21 RSS.
I do not know what the other adjustments will do. I have always left the Secure board at default.
It might be interesting to observe the receive audio (Quad audio) with a 'scope to see if the TV signal is present on the detected signal, or if the problem is else where.
I do not recall the band of operation of your station. If interference
is entering via the antenna port, I would also expect that there is some receiver desense.
Before we can fix your problem, we must first define exactly what the problem is.
Happy hunting!
Aloha, Bernie