E1 and E2's unit's

[MotoVio]

So... we're debating on what we want in the head explorers street units. They're both slicktop Crown Vic's, almost nothing in them.. just a mobile and an empty console, so we're debating on what warning equipment we're gonna utilize here: I'm already almost sure we're gonna use a Code 3 700 flasher for the headlights, clear hideaway strobes for the turn signals and a dual-predator on the dash (the gall's version, which is sound off's predator with the *G* on it, LOL) and two more predators on the deck, hanging from the top part of the headliner with the permanent z-bracket bolt or screw mount and a Code3 LED-X Arrowstick.
But, we also are debating on a tail-light flasher and a siren, which is the tail-light flasher that sort of "wig-wags" the inner reverse lights, and the outer break lights (both white (backup) lights turn on at the same time and than off and than both red (break) lights turn on at the same time and than off, back and forth, i like to call it an "inner - outer" back and forth pattern.) They seem to be popular in Albuquerque, one of the distant but still "neighboring" cities, but noone at that department seems to know what a taillight flasher even is...
So, what does the batboard community think, for the siren:
Whelen 295 series
FS Minisiren (MS4000)
FS Unitrol Touch Master Dela (UTMD)

Let me break down the post in case you are confused at this point:
We're installing emergency warning equipment in two head explorers cars and i need some opinions and info on the equipment, mostly:
Which tallight flasher, or.. if it's not specifically a tail-light flasher, flashes backup/break lights the way i explained it does?
and which siren do u prefer, does anyone have any .wavs on how the UTMD or Minisiren from Federal Signal sound? (I'm a little tired of whelen)

(The rest of our slicktop/unmarked units are equipped with 1: Galls DL106 Strobe and 1: DL121 Strobe on the dash, a standard wig-wag HL flasher and 2: Code 3 RVM'S on the deck, we wanna do something different this time.. MORE LIGHTS!)

Thanks
-VioLenT

[nmfire10]

LMAO, so we're debating on what we want in the head explorers street units.

Umm. Maybe I just fell off the apple cart but does anyone see something strange about this??? I hope your kidding because this makes about as much sense as Cowthief.

[jim]

For the "backflasher" or "flashback" unit, use Sound-Off's #ETFBSS solid state flasher. Don't waste time or money on any other unit.

http://www.soundoffinc.com

[FFParamedic571]

OK??? why do explorers need all these lights?? Last time I was involved with explorers we had really nothing to do with emergency response other than ride-a-longs and directing traffic on the 4th of july...

[MotoVio]

LoL, nmfire10, Yeah i have a top-secret front programmable astro too, did i mention i have an HT600 that does modat?... KIDDING

This is dead serious nmfire10, what would make u think this is a lie?
Might i remind you, it's 2 cars, 2, HEAD, senior explorers that are going to be using them.. they're also almost out of the "age-limit" for explorers, so i fore-see the units being either, left to their current purpose with the new appointed explorer captain and president, or used as admin/detective/ or uniformed officers cars... what's so hard to believe about that?.. lol retorical question i don't wanna argue.
Thanx for the info so far tho, keep it coming, if you have any.

Also: Jim, will the flasher u linked me to do this?

http://angelfire.com/un/tneloiv/elite.gif
(lol, excuse my paint skills. You might have to copy and paste the link into a new browser window)

Regards, VioLenT.

[nmfire10]

Are you sure you aren't smoking something? I was seriously thinking you were kidding around. I can't believe you even need to ask why this is not right Can you PLEASE explain to me what this is for? I am not seeing what two kids need to have a cruiser decked out with lights and a siren for.

[Pj]

Aside from parade/traffic duty, they don't need need it. Our explorer vic had the lenses changed to amber and the siren disconnected. We felt kinda stupid driving around in it, but never got razzeled. Its been that way for at least 15 years. Many police departments still keep the red/blue lenses on, some don't. Rocky Hill had an explorer vehicle that was equipted rather well.

BSA rules state that explorers CANNOT run lights/sirens to emergency calls etc, even if they are 20/21 years old. If the advisors are police officers alone in the explorer vehicle, then obvioulsy they are under the PD rules.

I would check with the dept's fleet manager before doing anything as there may be certain supplier/maintance contracts in effect. If you have a problem with non-dept equipment (say a federal bar instead of the dept standard code3 bar) you may not be able to have the dept maintance work on your problem.

[MotoVio]

Well, nmfire10, i can see what you mean, but they aren't really kids, eligibility (in the department i work with at least) to apply for captain/president requires you be 17, or up (to 19). Explorers hardly ever ride-a-long here, but the older ones, which were appointed those high positions are required to have A LOT OF EXPERIENCE, having their own car (by the way, they are not take-home cars) is a big privledge, We're not the first ones to appoint high-ranking explorer officers/officials their own units and i'm sure we won't be the last, why is it a big deal? Sorry.

Can we keep this topic original-post related?

I tried to answer your query the best i could nmfire10.

I'm not bullshitting you, do you think i'm retarted?
(don't answer that, totally retorical.)

[MotoVio]

Thanks PJ, we actually get all our stuff from a local radioshop.. i believe they are a whelen/code3 dealer as well, but anyway, I should mention that the explorer's who operate the vehicles will have an FTO with them... sound silly?, IT SHOULDNT. We don't have a Police Service Aide program here, i wish we did, In some cities, becoming a PSA when you turn 18 and being an explorer previously should be a very good thing and provide all the needed knowledge to enter the academy, that's how it is in some area cities around here, becoming a PSA is basically the underage version of being on your probation-period, experience-wise, that is. I should have mentioned they will have a real pay-rolled, uniformed officer with them at all times, I'm not highranking at all, This is my first year in the dept, so we're kind of left out on the action, like this.
But we all have a say-so in every discussion, it's cool.

But, if you guys can still help with the info i requested it would be great.
If you don't feel like it, i guess i understand.

[Pj]

Well....I don't think it will stay on topic long. When people know that you are looking to outfit a vehicle of police use that teenagers are going to drive, we get jittery. We don't need some laywer coming after us years from now because some 17 year old wrecked up a crusier that you put together off of our advice.

Trust me, 17-21, they are not THAT responsible and WON'T be that experienced to be in charge of much more than a traffic detail or doing odd jobs for the cops. You can tell me differently until your blue in the face. I did the explorer thing from 14-19 than became an auxillary police officer, and I now work full time for a PD. I look back at when I was a younger age (and not that long ago) and I see what we did...right and wrong.

I cannot stress how much liability is involved in just having the program, nevermind everything else that goes along with it.

So, please....do yourself a favor and tread carefully in your quest.

[MotoVio]

Will-do, thank you for the advice. and for understanding.
Maybe i'll wait a couple' days and make a new post and just ask about the stuff i need info on?
No pun intended

[nmfire10]

You still have NOT answered the question. What are these children doing with the vehicle that requires they have lights and siren??

[thebigphish]

Rocky Hill had an explorer vehicle that was equipted rather well.

seen it, not as nice as their Hummer tho...

[thebigphish]

atleast in CT, Explorers (and god knows we have a LOT) CANNOT respond to any kind of call, in any manner with lights and / or siren...because they are NOT COMMISSIONED TRAINED OFFICERS!!! Hell, (hard hittin (hahahah...kitn1mcc) New Britain does not allow their explorers to run vehicles w/o a uniformed police officer in them, merely because they have the New Britain Police name and logo ON the car! If the "HEAD" explorers are not commissioned officers (and i doubt they are) then any light color other than amber AND GOD KNOWS a siren are completely absurd.ok, stand by's are another story, throw a couple of deck lights in there for blocking a parade route or something, but if you cannot use the vehicle to field a call, merely by your qualification FOR THE JOB (explorers are volunteer) then you do not NEED it.

As far as i've seen (being affiliated w/ 3 explorer posts in various fields) all the captains do, is call parade commands and company attendance at events.



not to mention the TLA that physically is in control of your explorer post WILL FLIP A BIRD if you have any incidents with your vehicles set up in any aspect of a response setup. trust me. 10 years of dealing w/ the internal politics and setup of it tells me this WREAKS of potential liability.

[MotoVio]

What are lights and siren for?
Warning the public... as i stated, THEY ARE ACCOMPANIED BY A PAYED, RANKING, POLICE OFFICER. They are under department rule, when they ride, it's basically going through a pre-probationary period, maybe you haven't heard of it? Maybe they call it something else where your from?
Why are you so concerned about us "kids", if we have an adult with us?
What could possibly go wrong, sure, department liability and all that :o, but that's what we signed up and agreed for when we entered the explorers, we do things by the book, just like any other explorer post, is it such a big deal that we have 1 or 2 explorer-purposed vehicles? Maybe we should use them for "real cops"... since we're just explorers don't u think? no. I am an explorer, The Boy Scouts of America made the explorer program for ... well, "Exploring", that's what we're here for, can't we at least have some privledges? It will be our asses if we f-up anyway, not our real-time guardian, sorry but i think your'e giving me too much of a hard time over two automobiles with warning equipment, wanna continue the discussion? sure... go for it, i don't care... I hope that answeres your question.

But, does anyone have any suggestions on the siren?
We use code3/fedsig light bars and fedsig/whelen sirens. They are all covered by the winner of a recent service bid for the city, our local radio shop, so i guess i kinda know what i'm talking about now, i'm not saying any of you don't, just our Comm dealer is our repair and service center for almost any part of the department vehicles, so i'm "pretty" sure these siren's will meet departmental standards and requirements, but in all honesty i've not heard the unitrol touchmaster delta, or the minisiren, i'm just curious. Maybe the mod can delete this post and i'll just ask about that, without throwing in details as to who/when/where and what this equipment is for? lol. sorry.

My posts are meant in no offense towards anyone, even if they sound like it.


(I bet i'm gonna see some1 "Quote" me and throw in another randy ass comment )[/u]

[MotoVio]

We've been told the equipped vehicles will be used for all types of events, fiestas/carnivals/traffic control/ school zone patrol / community events / parades (we have at least 12 every year, not a lot, but a lot to me.) / citizen-contact rovers and as backup vehicles for investigations and employeed officers, when their unit's need servicing / repair, because we don't need them as bad as they do, but they do come in handy and as a new experience to most of us, besides rideing a long.

[spareparts]

First off, Police Explorers are part of Learning for Life, http://www.learning-for-life.org/ , not part of the BSA proper.

Who will hold the title to the pseudo-cruiser mentioned uptopic? If the local government owns the car, it's up to them to decide who drives it, and how it's equipped.

Martin

[HailStorm]

C'mon guys. What he wants to do with 'em is up to him, why are you appointing yourself as the "authority figure" who's going to tell him he can't do that, because it's a bad idea? If I had any remote ideas about which siren was better, I'd help in a heartbeat--alas that's why I'm on this board, to learn.

[FFParamedic571]

Right off the Webpage.....


Policy Statement on Driving Marked Cars
There have been sufficient reports of Law Enforcement Explorers driving marked patrol cars to cause concern for their safety. Law Enforcement Explorers in uniform driving patrol cars may readily be identified by the (good guy) public (in emergency need) or a bad guy (i.e. gang, drug dealer, etc.) as an official law enforcement officer. This is potentially putting inexperienced (immature) youth in harm's way. A Law Enforcement Explorer should never be placed in a situation that would present the appearance of him/her being a legal law enforcement officer.

The following policy statement is in effect immediately:

"NO LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPLORER,
WHETHER IN UNIFORM OR NOT,
SHOULD DRIVE A MARKED PATROL VEHICLE."

The only exception to this policy is in authorized competitions in which an adult law enforcement official shall ride in the front passenger seat.

National Law Enforcement Ride-Along (addendum)
Explorers under the age of 18 are prohibited from riding after midnight and/or shifts starting after midnight (graveyard shift).
Use of armored vest is recommended as available on Ride-Along.
The following offensive/defensive equipment use and carrying (other than in training experiences) is prohibited: firearms, chemical sprays, and baton. It is also strongly recommended that Explorers do not carry handcuffs.
The qualified Ride-Along officer must be off probation and have a one-year departmental tenure in good standing.

[nmfire10]

C'mon guys. What he wants to do with 'em is up to him, why are you appointing yourself as the "authority figure" who's going to tell him he can't do that.

Because I am one in our organization and I know that none of the above makes much sense. Of course, the actual story has changed 5 ways to wednesday and the latest version seems to make a little more sense than the first. Now, this vehicle is only for ride-alongs and for some reason, only for the two high ranking explorers. That really makes no sense to me but whatever.

[apco25]

Well, I guess my town violates this policy allowing senior explorers to drive marked units.

The county I work for has an explorer squad that is identical to any other sheriff car except the ligthbar is all blue and it has a pushbar when the regular road cars do not.

Anyway, this is goofy as usual with any division of any public safety entity in any state when it comes to lights, sirens and the rest.

None of if it EVER makes sense.

If I'm reading all this correctly.....

1. cars are owned by a municipal entity, the PD

2. cars are driven by full commissioned officers with explorers

3. cars are being equipped to be used by the department as a whole, and not the explorer post alone.

So I don't see the problem here if the car is being used in the context stated. Everything appears as if the explorers in question aren't going to be running around in these cars alone to screw up at any time.

Further interpretation could be this is a great opportunity for the kids to take pride in their vehicle, spec it out and install the equipment to be used in the appropriate and supervised manner.

If the kids are screwing around they'll get caught, canned and suffer the consequences.

of course this is all just an interpretation of what was written. It could very well be a complete line of BS.

[alex]

Ok,

Enough is enough. We aren't the world's police.

Locked.

-Alex