For the last time I am going to attempt this. If it doesn;t work this dam repeater and controller are going up for sale.
I have a cat 300 DX repeater interfaced VIA THE J2 system connector to the CXB msf500 uhf radio.
It works (sorta-kinda). It does what a controller should do. It controls the repeater. It has great audio, but this set up isn't allowing the roger beeps or voice from the controller to pass through.
So here is the wierd thing. When you unplug the power from the controller then plug it back in and qiucly key the portable you can hear the initialization voice in the background, but very faintly.
I have the factory controller programmed for full duplex, repeater ops off, and spectra tac option on.
It seems that the controller is essentially working, but not passing the controller beeps and commands. Is there something that I am missing in the programming.
Has anyone got this silly thing to work, and work well. Is there any more concrete info on this. I read through kcbooboo's white sheet and I don't think that he got it working either.
Sorry again for this repetitve question, but this really just sucks.
MSF and the CAT300dx- Got It working....Update
Moderator: Queue Moderator
MSF and the CAT300dx- Got It working....Update
Last edited by FMROB on Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There may be a difference of opinion in what a repeater controller is capable of doing, and what you want it to do.
The CAT controller identifies itself with voice when first powered up. There is probably a transmit audio level pot on the controller. Have you turned that up far enough? This same pot controls the beep and CWID level too.
If you are getting great audio through the system, perhaps it's going through the MSF5000's controller and NOT the CAT controller. If you adjust the pots on the CAT controller and they don't affect the audio you hear out of the repeater, this is definitely the case. The MSF5000 is fully capable of acting as a repeater controller, complete with legal CWID if programmed properly. If you have got REPEATER ENABLED in the software, then it is probably doing all of the work, NOT the CAT controller.
I have NOT had any problem getting my CAT200 controller to work with my MSF5000 or my pair of MaxTracs. The long article I wrote was merely a log of my experiences and findings along the way. I provided a lot more information than just interfacing details - this could be confusing to some people.
The CAT series of controllers are incapable of encoding, decoding, or passing PL or DPL audio signals. Period. They can deal with a radio or a separate tone encoder/decoder that provides a logic signal when a carrier is present, and/or a signal when PL or DPL tone is present. The controller itself merely deals with receiver audio and touch-tones for control, decides what to do with the touch-tones, and sends audio and a push-to-talk signal out to the transmitter. It's up to the radio to provide the receive audio, a signal when a carrier (with or without tone) is present, possibly a signal that a tone has been decoded, and be able to accept transmit audio and a signal that says "transmit". Most inexpensive (under $500) repeater controllers operate this way.
If you need something to encode and decode multiple PL or DPL signals, you would need a community tone deck controller, plus a radio that's capable of accepting transmit audio with a separate input for tone modulation. As far as I know, the MSF5000 radios do NOT have a separate input for tone; in fact they go out of their way to make sure the audio inputs to the transmitter are filtered to eliminate interference with the built-in tone generation capabilities.
There are inexpensive PL encode/decode boards available. Not all can do both at the same time. With the right connections, the PL decoder can be fed from the receiver and provide a signal to the CAT controller. But the PL encode tone still would need to be fed somehow directly into the MSF5000 transmitter, NOT the CAT controller.
If you configure the MSF5000 to encode and decode PL or DPL by itself, it will very nicely provide receive audio and an indication that a valid signal has been received. It will also easily accept transmit audio and a push-to-talk signal for the transmitter. The CAT controller knows what to do with these signals once you've configured things properly.
My MSF5000 stations are both digital-capable and have the TTRC (tone remote control) board which provides me with a signal when a carrier is present on the receiver's input, as well as a signal when a valid PL tone has been decoded. I brought these into the CAT200 controller which was very happy to see them. Receive audio was obtained from the MRTI connector on the SSCB (station control board) and it was of an adequate level to work with the CAT controller. I fed the CAT's transmit audio and PTT signal to the same MRTI connector. I did have to adjust audio levels in both the MSF5000 and the CAT controller, but this would be necessary with any interfacing activity - that's why they provide adjustable pots.
Bob M.
The CAT controller identifies itself with voice when first powered up. There is probably a transmit audio level pot on the controller. Have you turned that up far enough? This same pot controls the beep and CWID level too.
If you are getting great audio through the system, perhaps it's going through the MSF5000's controller and NOT the CAT controller. If you adjust the pots on the CAT controller and they don't affect the audio you hear out of the repeater, this is definitely the case. The MSF5000 is fully capable of acting as a repeater controller, complete with legal CWID if programmed properly. If you have got REPEATER ENABLED in the software, then it is probably doing all of the work, NOT the CAT controller.
I have NOT had any problem getting my CAT200 controller to work with my MSF5000 or my pair of MaxTracs. The long article I wrote was merely a log of my experiences and findings along the way. I provided a lot more information than just interfacing details - this could be confusing to some people.
The CAT series of controllers are incapable of encoding, decoding, or passing PL or DPL audio signals. Period. They can deal with a radio or a separate tone encoder/decoder that provides a logic signal when a carrier is present, and/or a signal when PL or DPL tone is present. The controller itself merely deals with receiver audio and touch-tones for control, decides what to do with the touch-tones, and sends audio and a push-to-talk signal out to the transmitter. It's up to the radio to provide the receive audio, a signal when a carrier (with or without tone) is present, possibly a signal that a tone has been decoded, and be able to accept transmit audio and a signal that says "transmit". Most inexpensive (under $500) repeater controllers operate this way.
If you need something to encode and decode multiple PL or DPL signals, you would need a community tone deck controller, plus a radio that's capable of accepting transmit audio with a separate input for tone modulation. As far as I know, the MSF5000 radios do NOT have a separate input for tone; in fact they go out of their way to make sure the audio inputs to the transmitter are filtered to eliminate interference with the built-in tone generation capabilities.
There are inexpensive PL encode/decode boards available. Not all can do both at the same time. With the right connections, the PL decoder can be fed from the receiver and provide a signal to the CAT controller. But the PL encode tone still would need to be fed somehow directly into the MSF5000 transmitter, NOT the CAT controller.
If you configure the MSF5000 to encode and decode PL or DPL by itself, it will very nicely provide receive audio and an indication that a valid signal has been received. It will also easily accept transmit audio and a push-to-talk signal for the transmitter. The CAT controller knows what to do with these signals once you've configured things properly.
My MSF5000 stations are both digital-capable and have the TTRC (tone remote control) board which provides me with a signal when a carrier is present on the receiver's input, as well as a signal when a valid PL tone has been decoded. I brought these into the CAT200 controller which was very happy to see them. Receive audio was obtained from the MRTI connector on the SSCB (station control board) and it was of an adequate level to work with the CAT controller. I fed the CAT's transmit audio and PTT signal to the same MRTI connector. I did have to adjust audio levels in both the MSF5000 and the CAT controller, but this would be necessary with any interfacing activity - that's why they provide adjustable pots.
Bob M.
Lets start over with this project and take it step by step.
First, be sure that your TTRC audio board is jumpered for four wire operation. Set jumper JU4230 to bypass the station ALC which is normally enabled for tone remote control applications.
Then program the station for the proper transmit and receive frequencies and PL or DPL. Then go to the field for "Repeater Control" and set "Repeater Activate" to "OFF" You do not want Spectra-Tac unless you are using the station with a Motorola voting comparator.
Next set up the station programmable I/O. Under Advanced Information Page 8 "System Connector" set "External PTT" to "LINE" and set "Spare Output" to "MUXA2B0" and "Spare Output Pin Active" to "LOW"
Now test the station. Connect the transmitter to a dummy load. Set your service monitor to monitor the station transmit frequency. Ideally connect a breakout box to the station J2 connector - otherwise sacrifice an old 25 pin RS232 cable or come up with a way to hook test connections up to the station. Logic ground is on pin 19. Connect "Spare IN" pin 12 to pin 19. The station should key. Disconnect and dekey the station.
Now connect a transmission test set or audio generator to the station's LINE-1 at J2-6 and J2-7. Set the generator for a 1K tone at -10 dBm. Next reconnect J2-12 to J2-17. When the station keys you should have approximately 3KHz of deviation on the service monitor. If necessary, use the RSS to adjust the transmit EEPOT to achieve 3KHz deviation [plus PL if you are using PL]. Dekey the station.
Next verify proper receive operation using the service monitor to generate an on channel signal with the proper PL. Modulate the signal with a 1K tone at 3 KHz deviation. Connect the transmission test set or an AC volmeter to the station's LINE-2 connections at J2-2 and J2-3. Verify that receive audio is present at approximately -10 dBm. If necessary, use the RSS to set the appropriate EEPOT to achieve this.
You should also verify that the "Spare Output" on J2-9 goes low when receiving a signal. While you are conducting these tests be sure that the station does not key up when receiving [attempt to repeat in cabinet] If you have Spectra-TAC programmed - it may try to do that even if you have the repeater qualifiers set to OFF because in-cabinet fall back repeat is a Spectra-TAC feature.
When all that works OK, connect the CAT to J2. Start with just the transmit audio and PTT. Adjust the CAT transmit level for approximately 3 KHz transmit deviation on CAT voice and tone outputs. Then connect the station receive audio and COR to the CAT. Using the service monitor in duplex mode - or a separate signal generator, adjust the CAT receive input so that the repeat audio is 3KHz out for 3KHz in.
First, be sure that your TTRC audio board is jumpered for four wire operation. Set jumper JU4230 to bypass the station ALC which is normally enabled for tone remote control applications.
Then program the station for the proper transmit and receive frequencies and PL or DPL. Then go to the field for "Repeater Control" and set "Repeater Activate" to "OFF" You do not want Spectra-Tac unless you are using the station with a Motorola voting comparator.
Next set up the station programmable I/O. Under Advanced Information Page 8 "System Connector" set "External PTT" to "LINE" and set "Spare Output" to "MUXA2B0" and "Spare Output Pin Active" to "LOW"
Now test the station. Connect the transmitter to a dummy load. Set your service monitor to monitor the station transmit frequency. Ideally connect a breakout box to the station J2 connector - otherwise sacrifice an old 25 pin RS232 cable or come up with a way to hook test connections up to the station. Logic ground is on pin 19. Connect "Spare IN" pin 12 to pin 19. The station should key. Disconnect and dekey the station.
Now connect a transmission test set or audio generator to the station's LINE-1 at J2-6 and J2-7. Set the generator for a 1K tone at -10 dBm. Next reconnect J2-12 to J2-17. When the station keys you should have approximately 3KHz of deviation on the service monitor. If necessary, use the RSS to adjust the transmit EEPOT to achieve 3KHz deviation [plus PL if you are using PL]. Dekey the station.
Next verify proper receive operation using the service monitor to generate an on channel signal with the proper PL. Modulate the signal with a 1K tone at 3 KHz deviation. Connect the transmission test set or an AC volmeter to the station's LINE-2 connections at J2-2 and J2-3. Verify that receive audio is present at approximately -10 dBm. If necessary, use the RSS to set the appropriate EEPOT to achieve this.
You should also verify that the "Spare Output" on J2-9 goes low when receiving a signal. While you are conducting these tests be sure that the station does not key up when receiving [attempt to repeat in cabinet] If you have Spectra-TAC programmed - it may try to do that even if you have the repeater qualifiers set to OFF because in-cabinet fall back repeat is a Spectra-TAC feature.
When all that works OK, connect the CAT to J2. Start with just the transmit audio and PTT. Adjust the CAT transmit level for approximately 3 KHz transmit deviation on CAT voice and tone outputs. Then connect the station receive audio and COR to the CAT. Using the service monitor in duplex mode - or a separate signal generator, adjust the CAT receive input so that the repeat audio is 3KHz out for 3KHz in.
XMO and KCBOOBOO,
THankyou for the replies. XMO I think you may have helped me. My programming may be wrong. Like I said the repeater controller is working, but no the right way. It keys and unkeys the station and passes the radio traffic audion, but just not the voice prompts or commands or roger beep (which is my problem)
have to pluck around and disabe the spectra tac option and all of the other things listed in your post, including that jumper which I knew nothing about. If it is alright I will pm or post you back to let you know if it works or not.
I would really like to share all of this info with the board because I have tried numerous methods and controllers with little success.
Thanks, Rob
THankyou for the replies. XMO I think you may have helped me. My programming may be wrong. Like I said the repeater controller is working, but no the right way. It keys and unkeys the station and passes the radio traffic audion, but just not the voice prompts or commands or roger beep (which is my problem)
have to pluck around and disabe the spectra tac option and all of the other things listed in your post, including that jumper which I knew nothing about. If it is alright I will pm or post you back to let you know if it works or not.
I would really like to share all of this info with the board because I have tried numerous methods and controllers with little success.
Thanks, Rob
-
airman1952
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:51 am
I would also be curious how it turns out.
I have two MSF's, both digital. I have not fooled with the programming much and are operating both with the internal contollers. Unless I'm mistaken, you will need to remove, or move back in the PTT prority the
R qualifier. Otherwise the internal controller will keep trying to function. The way it sounds to me is the internal controller is actually passing the audio you are hearing. You said you could quick key the repeater and hear the CAT power up voice. The CAT is providing a power up voice that you are hearing until the internal controller kicks in and takes over the audio path and blocks any other audio from the CAT, such as tail beeps, etc. The internal controller probably has a slightly longer audio delay than the CAT does, so you are hearing the CAT breifly at first.
Bob (kcbooboo), could you PM me with your final wiring config. for the CAT200 to the MSF? I too, have a CAT200 I would like to try. I was reading your notes, and like FMROB, I was a little confused with what you actually finalized with. Especially with the PL sense problem.
Gary
I have two MSF's, both digital. I have not fooled with the programming much and are operating both with the internal contollers. Unless I'm mistaken, you will need to remove, or move back in the PTT prority the
R qualifier. Otherwise the internal controller will keep trying to function. The way it sounds to me is the internal controller is actually passing the audio you are hearing. You said you could quick key the repeater and hear the CAT power up voice. The CAT is providing a power up voice that you are hearing until the internal controller kicks in and takes over the audio path and blocks any other audio from the CAT, such as tail beeps, etc. The internal controller probably has a slightly longer audio delay than the CAT does, so you are hearing the CAT breifly at first.
Bob (kcbooboo), could you PM me with your final wiring config. for the CAT200 to the MSF? I too, have a CAT200 I would like to try. I was reading your notes, and like FMROB, I was a little confused with what you actually finalized with. Especially with the PL sense problem.
Gary
Okay. Got it working.....Perfectly. So here goes. Please keep in mind I am not a super electronics tech, nor do I have all of the neccessary equipment to perform all testng and alignmnet, so it will be done soon by my friend with the equipment, this includes audio and dev settings. Here is what I found.
This interface is for the CAT300 DX controller to a Motorola MSF5000 CXB UHF repeater.
Radio Info:
1) Radio needs to be a CXB model, Have not tired it on a CLB model
2) Enable spectra-tac option in software
3) Enable wireline control (line) for the J2 accessory connector on the power box on the side of the radio. This is where most of the connections will be made
4) Unit must have the TTRC board installed
5) Unit must have the most current version 5 firmware installed
6) We found that pin 23 (RDSTAT (RX1ACT)) DID NOT provide an adequate COR signal to operate the controller which will accept either an active high or low signal (dip switch slectable)
7) Radio or the station SSCB shall be set to operate as a full duplex base station and all various repeater settings should be in the off setting within the software.
Here is the pin out for the J2 25 pin connector and where we took COR from:
2- Audio from the reciever
6- Audio to the transmitter
12- Push to talk
19- Logic ground for the controller (needs to be grounded to allow the PTT to work correctly)
17-3-7- All tied together for audio grounding (doesn't get tied to the controller)
COR- We found the most reliable place to get COR was from the component side of the SSCB which is the controller board for the MSF5000. We drilled a tiny hole in the rear plastic center portion of the SSCB housing and ran the wire to an empty spot on the J2 connector on the station. The other portion of this wire gets strained reliefed and wire tied inside of the SSCB housing with enough slack to allow the draw to slide out an flip open. This wire will go to the pin 1 of U1552 chip on the SSCB board. This pin gives a perfect active low which the CAT controller seems to really like. It may be available in some other pin on the J2 connector, but we were unable to get it to work.
Here if the controller pin out for the CAT300dx 25 pin connector:
16- COR input from the U1552 pin 1 wire
10- PTT input from pin 12 on the J2
11- TX audio to pin 6 on the J2
13- RX audio from pin 2 on the J2
14-25 all get grounded together and connected to pin 19 on the J2
With that said if anyone has any other info or input or questions please speak up. I have been trying to researchthis topic for about 10 months and no one had an exact way of interfacing to this unit. THis way does work and is easy enough for a non tech guy like me to get going.
Enjoy...Hope this helps someone else out. Rob
This interface is for the CAT300 DX controller to a Motorola MSF5000 CXB UHF repeater.
Radio Info:
1) Radio needs to be a CXB model, Have not tired it on a CLB model
2) Enable spectra-tac option in software
3) Enable wireline control (line) for the J2 accessory connector on the power box on the side of the radio. This is where most of the connections will be made
4) Unit must have the TTRC board installed
5) Unit must have the most current version 5 firmware installed
6) We found that pin 23 (RDSTAT (RX1ACT)) DID NOT provide an adequate COR signal to operate the controller which will accept either an active high or low signal (dip switch slectable)
7) Radio or the station SSCB shall be set to operate as a full duplex base station and all various repeater settings should be in the off setting within the software.
Here is the pin out for the J2 25 pin connector and where we took COR from:
2- Audio from the reciever
6- Audio to the transmitter
12- Push to talk
19- Logic ground for the controller (needs to be grounded to allow the PTT to work correctly)
17-3-7- All tied together for audio grounding (doesn't get tied to the controller)
COR- We found the most reliable place to get COR was from the component side of the SSCB which is the controller board for the MSF5000. We drilled a tiny hole in the rear plastic center portion of the SSCB housing and ran the wire to an empty spot on the J2 connector on the station. The other portion of this wire gets strained reliefed and wire tied inside of the SSCB housing with enough slack to allow the draw to slide out an flip open. This wire will go to the pin 1 of U1552 chip on the SSCB board. This pin gives a perfect active low which the CAT controller seems to really like. It may be available in some other pin on the J2 connector, but we were unable to get it to work.
Here if the controller pin out for the CAT300dx 25 pin connector:
16- COR input from the U1552 pin 1 wire
10- PTT input from pin 12 on the J2
11- TX audio to pin 6 on the J2
13- RX audio from pin 2 on the J2
14-25 all get grounded together and connected to pin 19 on the J2
With that said if anyone has any other info or input or questions please speak up. I have been trying to researchthis topic for about 10 months and no one had an exact way of interfacing to this unit. THis way does work and is easy enough for a non tech guy like me to get going.
Enjoy...Hope this helps someone else out. Rob
Last edited by FMROB on Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What was the eventual solution to your low voice audio from the CAT controller?
I didn't want to solder wires into the circuitry - I wanted to use the existing, albeit inadequate, signals on the existing connectors. I too found problems with RXSTAT and its varieties, and that was the most annoying thing about my attempt, which is why I stopped when I got it working by using two signals on the TTRC board.
Bob M.
I didn't want to solder wires into the circuitry - I wanted to use the existing, albeit inadequate, signals on the existing connectors. I too found problems with RXSTAT and its varieties, and that was the most annoying thing about my attempt, which is why I stopped when I got it working by using two signals on the TTRC board.
Bob M.
Good question.
Here is what I found. I am very stupid.
I accidentally while making the test cable put the ground wire to the controller to pin #18 on the J2 connector which is site failsoft.
After reviewing for about an hour every last thing that could be wrong I noticed this problem.
Here what was happening with it conected to pin 18. The controller was working as a controller it was rx'ing, tx'ing but no voice or roger beeps. It didn't even tx when it first was powered up. So basically it was useless to me.
With the ground now moved to pin 19 the voice was loud and clear, the roger beeps worked, and it was keying the transmitter. However it did not operate as a controller. It was not controlling the reapeater when for example you tried to talk in with a portable. I went through it systematically and realized the only thing that could cause this was an improper COR.
I tested the J2 connector for other possible pins, searched the software options to see if there was something that was set wrong to make pin 23 not funtion. No luck.
So we wound up using the U1552 pin 1 for the COR. It is a solid acitve low with a large change in voltage which allows the controller to follow with out a problem. I know that soldering to the board is not the most appealing way to do this, but it works. And in light of all of the hours spent f'in around with this thing I am more than happy.
-Rob
Here is what I found. I am very stupid.
I accidentally while making the test cable put the ground wire to the controller to pin #18 on the J2 connector which is site failsoft.
After reviewing for about an hour every last thing that could be wrong I noticed this problem.
Here what was happening with it conected to pin 18. The controller was working as a controller it was rx'ing, tx'ing but no voice or roger beeps. It didn't even tx when it first was powered up. So basically it was useless to me.
With the ground now moved to pin 19 the voice was loud and clear, the roger beeps worked, and it was keying the transmitter. However it did not operate as a controller. It was not controlling the reapeater when for example you tried to talk in with a portable. I went through it systematically and realized the only thing that could cause this was an improper COR.
I tested the J2 connector for other possible pins, searched the software options to see if there was something that was set wrong to make pin 23 not funtion. No luck.
So we wound up using the U1552 pin 1 for the COR. It is a solid acitve low with a large change in voltage which allows the controller to follow with out a problem. I know that soldering to the board is not the most appealing way to do this, but it works. And in light of all of the hours spent f'in around with this thing I am more than happy.
-Rob
-
airman1952
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:51 am
Thanks for all the info you gave, Rob.
Motorola did an excellent job of designing the MSF "not to function" with anything other than the internal controller.
That was their intention!
Tha CAT controllers are apparently a little more sensitive to a voltage change for the cor. I've never seen a 300, and the 200 I have is still sitting in the box. I've just read through the manual a little.
The Link Comms I have are happy with the low logic from the RDSTAT.
I'm just having a problem finding a reliable PL logic source that an external controller will like. I want to be able to remotely drop the tone requirement from my systems when needed. (emergencys, etc.)
The PL situation is why I have been paying close attention to all of the MSF threads I see, hoping that someone has come up with a reliable solution. (Other than buying a Zetron!)
I thought of just getting a DTMF switch from Comspec and using a normally closed tap, and breaking the PTT line somewhere for knock down purposes from a remote radio (staying legal), because I cannot get the audio through an external controller to sound as good as the internal controller audio, even with all this #$%& expensive equipment sitting here.
Glad you got it working! And by the way, your not stupid!
Gary
Motorola did an excellent job of designing the MSF "not to function" with anything other than the internal controller.
That was their intention!Tha CAT controllers are apparently a little more sensitive to a voltage change for the cor. I've never seen a 300, and the 200 I have is still sitting in the box. I've just read through the manual a little.
The Link Comms I have are happy with the low logic from the RDSTAT.
I'm just having a problem finding a reliable PL logic source that an external controller will like. I want to be able to remotely drop the tone requirement from my systems when needed. (emergencys, etc.)
The PL situation is why I have been paying close attention to all of the MSF threads I see, hoping that someone has come up with a reliable solution. (Other than buying a Zetron!)
I thought of just getting a DTMF switch from Comspec and using a normally closed tap, and breaking the PTT line somewhere for knock down purposes from a remote radio (staying legal), because I cannot get the audio through an external controller to sound as good as the internal controller audio, even with all this #$%& expensive equipment sitting here.
Glad you got it working! And by the way, your not stupid!
Gary
"...Motorola did an excellent job of designing the MSF "not to function" with anything other than the internal controller. That was their intention! ..."
______________________________________________________________
Nothing could be further from the truth. When Motorola designed the station "MSF" was chosen as the name to represent "Maximum Station Flexibility"
There are two ways you can proceed to have both a carrier indication and a PL indication.
First, you can check out the RSTAT signal on station connector J3-25 [comes from TTRC P2901-11] Assuming your station firmware is 5.52 / 5.41, you should find that this signal goes low when the receiver is unsquelched. That would then be your COR signal. The RDSTAT [RX1ACT] signal on station connector J2-23 [comes from TTRC P2900-8] should go low when the programmed receiver qualifiers are met, i.e. if the station is programmed to expect PL this will go low when you have both carrier and PL. That becomes your PL indicate signal.
Your second choice for a PL indication is to goto the Advanced Information Page 8 in the RSS. Under "System Connector" set "Spare Output" to "MUXA3B2" and "Spare Output Pin Active" to "LOW"
That will cause the spare output pin, station connector J2-9 [comes from TTRC P2900-9] to go low on PL detect. If you use that for your PL indicate, you can continue using the RDSTAT indication for your controller COR.
If you follow the configuration and level setting instructions I gave previously you should have no trouble getting good sounding audio through your external controller. If you did choose to want to use a simple DTMF controller to disable the station repeat, there is no need to "break the PTT line somewhere". There is a transmit disable input on station connector J2-5 [comes from TTRC P2900-4] A low applied there will inhibit all transmit activity.
______________________________________________________________
Nothing could be further from the truth. When Motorola designed the station "MSF" was chosen as the name to represent "Maximum Station Flexibility"
There are two ways you can proceed to have both a carrier indication and a PL indication.
First, you can check out the RSTAT signal on station connector J3-25 [comes from TTRC P2901-11] Assuming your station firmware is 5.52 / 5.41, you should find that this signal goes low when the receiver is unsquelched. That would then be your COR signal. The RDSTAT [RX1ACT] signal on station connector J2-23 [comes from TTRC P2900-8] should go low when the programmed receiver qualifiers are met, i.e. if the station is programmed to expect PL this will go low when you have both carrier and PL. That becomes your PL indicate signal.
Your second choice for a PL indication is to goto the Advanced Information Page 8 in the RSS. Under "System Connector" set "Spare Output" to "MUXA3B2" and "Spare Output Pin Active" to "LOW"
That will cause the spare output pin, station connector J2-9 [comes from TTRC P2900-9] to go low on PL detect. If you use that for your PL indicate, you can continue using the RDSTAT indication for your controller COR.
If you follow the configuration and level setting instructions I gave previously you should have no trouble getting good sounding audio through your external controller. If you did choose to want to use a simple DTMF controller to disable the station repeat, there is no need to "break the PTT line somewhere". There is a transmit disable input on station connector J2-5 [comes from TTRC P2900-4] A low applied there will inhibit all transmit activity.
"When you eliminate the impossible, all that remains, however improbable, is the answer" or something like that. It helps to have another set of eyes look at things once in a while. I wish the CAT series of controllers used something other than a DB-25 connector - too easy to make a mistake when wiring it up.
A good number of externally accessible signals on the SCCB and TTRC are driven by open-collector transistors with no pull-up resistor. This makes it quite difficult to see a logic level change with a voltmeter or scope unless you add your own pull-up resistor to a source of +5, +9, or +14 volts. Usually it's not critical, but some form of pull-up is required. This threw me off the track on more than one occasion when I was interfacing my CAT200 to my MSF5000 station.
I think the signals on J2900 and J2901 are the two that I ended up using with my station. The signal names sound familiar. I do believe that the logic level on one of those is active high while the other is active low. All the experimentation I went through is a faint memory now, but I documented all of that in the PDF file in the MSF5000-specific section of the Batlabs site.
Bob M.
A good number of externally accessible signals on the SCCB and TTRC are driven by open-collector transistors with no pull-up resistor. This makes it quite difficult to see a logic level change with a voltmeter or scope unless you add your own pull-up resistor to a source of +5, +9, or +14 volts. Usually it's not critical, but some form of pull-up is required. This threw me off the track on more than one occasion when I was interfacing my CAT200 to my MSF5000 station.
I think the signals on J2900 and J2901 are the two that I ended up using with my station. The signal names sound familiar. I do believe that the logic level on one of those is active high while the other is active low. All the experimentation I went through is a faint memory now, but I documented all of that in the PDF file in the MSF5000-specific section of the Batlabs site.
Bob M.
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airman1952
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:51 am
Thanks XMO. I stand corrected. I have been trying to figure out a way
to do this for sometime. I'm just learning.
I have been asking around on a few other forums about the PL for some time now, and was getting the same basic response - "Can't be done!". I did PM a few individuals on this forum, and except for Bob (kcbooboo) who has been very helpful, most responded along the lines of "Why ruin a perfectly good repeater by adding an external controller?"
I can appreciate where they were coming from, so no flames intended. They were not hams.
I need to check which version firmware I have because I quite honestly
do not remember.
Anyway, you have given me a direction to proceed with.
Thanks again.
Gary
to do this for sometime. I'm just learning.
I have been asking around on a few other forums about the PL for some time now, and was getting the same basic response - "Can't be done!". I did PM a few individuals on this forum, and except for Bob (kcbooboo) who has been very helpful, most responded along the lines of "Why ruin a perfectly good repeater by adding an external controller?"
I can appreciate where they were coming from, so no flames intended. They were not hams.
I need to check which version firmware I have because I quite honestly
do not remember.
Anyway, you have given me a direction to proceed with.
Thanks again.
Gary
Bob put a lot of work into his project and has been quick to try to help others when they have MSF issues.
As far as those who say: "Why ruin a perfectly good repeater by adding an external controller?" , I can sort of understand the sentiment, the MSF does very well on its own, but I do understand the reasons for connecting the MSF to external controllers.
What does bug me is the approach some hams take with projects. They don't seem to be happy unless thay can cut foils and traces and turn the product into a POS with wires running hither and yon - tied to all sorts of arcane points on circuit boards. I guess I don't care if they do that to a GE or Kenmore, but it does sort of bother me when someone says you have to do that with an MSF5000 when all the connections they ever needed were designed right into the product.
I think the problem is that the MSF is a complex product and the documentation is not real clear on how to do a lot of these things. That's where we come in on Batlabs & Batboard - the sharing of knowldege and experience.
One thing I always try to do when offering advice is to clearly indicate the difference between an opinion and a fact. Sometimes I will speculate as to how a thing can be done - but mostly I won't even try to answer questions unless I have real facts to report.
In the case of these MSF interfacing questions - I have done these things many times commercially and personally - and in this particular case I set up a test radio in the lab and programmed it the way I said in the posts to verify that it does what I said it would.
As far as those who say: "Why ruin a perfectly good repeater by adding an external controller?" , I can sort of understand the sentiment, the MSF does very well on its own, but I do understand the reasons for connecting the MSF to external controllers.
What does bug me is the approach some hams take with projects. They don't seem to be happy unless thay can cut foils and traces and turn the product into a POS with wires running hither and yon - tied to all sorts of arcane points on circuit boards. I guess I don't care if they do that to a GE or Kenmore, but it does sort of bother me when someone says you have to do that with an MSF5000 when all the connections they ever needed were designed right into the product.
I think the problem is that the MSF is a complex product and the documentation is not real clear on how to do a lot of these things. That's where we come in on Batlabs & Batboard - the sharing of knowldege and experience.
One thing I always try to do when offering advice is to clearly indicate the difference between an opinion and a fact. Sometimes I will speculate as to how a thing can be done - but mostly I won't even try to answer questions unless I have real facts to report.
In the case of these MSF interfacing questions - I have done these things many times commercially and personally - and in this particular case I set up a test radio in the lab and programmed it the way I said in the posts to verify that it does what I said it would.
-
airman1952
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:51 am
Again, I could not agree more!
I would hope that I do not fall into that category of a ham, but that viewpoint would have to come from someone outside, looking in.
I'm sure at some point or another, in my time as an amateur, my ability in electronics may have fallen into the slightly shoddy spectrum because of my over eagerness for a successful end to a quest. Like with anything, there are bad apples, but I would hope, in my case, it falls into the learning curve category.
However, with the amount of hard earned dollars I have invested in my MSF's (now 3), the last thing I'm interested in, is doing a butcher job. In fact, I would prefer plug and play. So, this is why all the questions, even if they are dumb! It's all, and only, my ignorance! I will try to find out on my own first, before asking.
Hopefully, with the kind help I've received from this and other forums, I become less ignorant, so that all the Motorola gear I have will serve their usefull life respectfully.
Gary
I would hope that I do not fall into that category of a ham, but that viewpoint would have to come from someone outside, looking in.
I'm sure at some point or another, in my time as an amateur, my ability in electronics may have fallen into the slightly shoddy spectrum because of my over eagerness for a successful end to a quest. Like with anything, there are bad apples, but I would hope, in my case, it falls into the learning curve category.
However, with the amount of hard earned dollars I have invested in my MSF's (now 3), the last thing I'm interested in, is doing a butcher job. In fact, I would prefer plug and play. So, this is why all the questions, even if they are dumb! It's all, and only, my ignorance! I will try to find out on my own first, before asking.
Hopefully, with the kind help I've received from this and other forums, I become less ignorant, so that all the Motorola gear I have will serve their usefull life respectfully.
Gary
-
raymond345
- Posts: 268
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 4:00 pm
From A Canadian HAM
When we do need to solder on a
pcb (Like a pin of an ic).
We use a soldering station with a very small
solder tip and very small solder.
In the ecg component book the
temperature and time is listed for
not destroying components.
We also use WOMEN"S nail
finger clear hardener around the
other pins close to where the solder must be used.
We use the very small drill bits
and drill the pcb to add a wire or part.
Boy does that work slick.
(P.S. smt is even easier now)
It has worked great for many years. A few minutes of
prep works SAVES big Dollars .
Tips not taught in SCHOOL.
.
pcb (Like a pin of an ic).
We use a soldering station with a very small
solder tip and very small solder.
In the ecg component book the
temperature and time is listed for
not destroying components.
We also use WOMEN"S nail
finger clear hardener around the
other pins close to where the solder must be used.
We use the very small drill bits
and drill the pcb to add a wire or part.
Boy does that work slick.
(P.S. smt is even easier now)
It has worked great for many years. A few minutes of
prep works SAVES big Dollars .
Tips not taught in SCHOOL.
.