Three Gold Elite questions (Logging, QC-II, and Cross-Patch)

[nmfire10]

I've been meaning to ask these questions for a while, but the third one reminded me of the rest.

Logging
There is a setting in the Centracom Gold Elite (i don't remember where) that enables "logging" of the MDC unit ID's. I have it turned on but for the life of me I can't figure out where the hell it logs to. Is it not an external log like I think or am i just blind??


QC-II
I found where you enable QC-II and Singletone permissions in the database manager and assign them in the Alias Database Manager. However, now where in any of this is there something to actuallly assign the damn tones. Perhaps you need another board or I am again blind. What am I missing here??


Patches
Before friday, I had never had a need to setup a console patch. Well, we tried it on Friday evening to allow some UHF backup radios to communicate with the VHF Parking Office radios. It "worked" but there seems to be a HORRIBLE VOX type delay in keying up. I would think with all this technology, the console would key the patch upon recieving carrier rather than waiting for audio and relying on VOX. This delay made the patch totally useless. Is there a better way to patch two conventional resources together with the console (not hardwire)??

[xmo]

Logging: An Elite signalling resource can be configured in the Elite Admin program to have a stack comprised of a specific number of rows. When you click the dropdown arrow to expand the view of the resource to show all the features, the stack will display the ID or alias, call type, and time for each call.

You can delete entries from the stack with the Delete Single Stack Item button or menu selection.

If you have an actual disk file of call activity that may have been provided by a third party product through the CAD interface.

QC-II: The Alias database manager is where you associate a pager number and alias. The number is the console representation of the tones which in connection with the entries for format, resource, and frequency defines the page. The "number" is the console equivalent of a cap code and is the same number you would have entered with the keypad for a page on a button & LED CCII.

Figuring the number is explained in the big Gold maintenance binder. There are programs kicking around that will do that for you.

Patch: You have just discovered why traditional patch has a bad rap. That is why I always recommend hardware handshake for conventional resources that are going to be patched. Consoles connected to trunking systems automatically 'know' when someone is talking on a talkgroup but not so on conventional.

The situation can sometimes be improved by careful level setting and BIM card jumper configuration. If you are going to use patch it is always best to have a knowledgeable radio person analyze and optimize the configuration.

Just how bad or well the patch works can also be affected by the type of conventional resource - simplex or repeater - and the type of connectivity - wireline, DC, tone remote, or control station - hang time - PL/DPL access, etc.

[nmfire10]

I was hoping the "log" was something other than the stack. I thought maybe wrote it to an external file like a table or CSV or something. Oh well.


You mean I need to read the book!?!?!?! Is there a list on the net somewhere with that information? I have no big ass binder, just a little book with the CD's.


As I suspected, I'm probably SOL with the patch situation. The UHF resource is a voting UHF repeater on tone remote. The VHF resource is a CDM1250 with power supply on a tone remote mounted on the roof of the building the dispatch office is in. I would have thought the console would be smart enough to use the voting RX indication as a signal to key up the patch. I guess hardwire with remote control is the best way but you lose the flexibility of patching anything to anything like you can with the console. Oh well.

I use the multi-select 9 out of 10 times and don't need the patch. It would be nice though. I know at some point the boss will say "why does the patch not work good?" and get all pissed at the end user. I just have to point out "I didn't buy it, you did."

This reminds me, there is an Aux button we don't use anymore that was for a door release. I have been meaning to re-label it "Auto Destruct" and set it for audible alarm Stand back and watch the looks of panic as unsuspecting people push it and the alarms go off

[xmo]

"...Is there a list on the net somewhere with that information? ..."

Try CCII.COM @: http://members.fortunecity.com/machine4/utils.htm

"...I would have thought the console would be smart enough to use the voting RX indication as a signal to key up the patch..."

The comparator voted output indicator can be connected to the cosole to do just that.

"...I guess hardwire with remote control is the best way but you lose the flexibility of patching anything to anything like you can with the console. .."

You can run all that through the console. That's where the knowledgeble RF dude comes into the picture. The hardware handshake connections between the RF infrastructure and the CEB can make all sorts of magic happen.

[nmfire10]

I guess what it comes down to is they didn't think of or pay the Mother M folks to do that with ours in the begining. I can tell right now how it went...

"We want to patch channels together."
"This console can do that right out of the box!"
"We'll take two of them."

Clicking any of the files on that page including CCII.com opens "American Singles" rather than downloading a file. Am I missing something here??

[xmo]

I didn't actually try to download it from that site, I just used google to find it. If you can't find a link that works - I think Wavetar may be able to help you out.

[Wile E. Coyote]

If you have the programming cable for the gold elite, you can log MDC traffic -OR- system health to a file on a PC. Here is what you do:

1. place a RS-232 card above the COIM with the lowest address.

2. Plug the programming cable into the front RS-232 jack, and place the other end into the serial port of a computer

3. Using hyper terminal (or any other dumb terminal emulating software) set the com port for 1200,E,7,1. (baud might be faster - cant remember)

4. If it is all set up you should see 3 or 4 lines of basic information. to set up the display for mdc logging type [ESC],D,L. (for Data Logging). If you want to view system health, type [ESC],F,M. (for Fault Maintenance).

from here all mdc information will be dumped in a raw form to your pc. You can then store it to file and import it to excel.

Good Luck!

-WEC

[nmfire10]

Thanks!

[wavetar]

3. Using hyper terminal (or any other dumb terminal emulating software) set the com port for 1200,E,7,1. (baud might be faster - cant remember)

-WEC

I believe it's 9600 baud. Good suggestion though, I hadn't thought of it.

Todd

[Jay911]

Try CCII.COM @: http://members.fortunecity.com/machine4/utils.htm

When I found that program online, I made sure I saved it, and I tacked it up on my webspace as well.

http://www.jay911.org/radio/paging.zip

There's a couple of other things in there too.

As for the other comments, patching with a Gold Elite console baffles me. I always feel like there has to be a better way of doing it, for a couple of reasons..

1. I don't understand why the console allows instant transmit on a patched channel. When I'm out on the street and listening to a patch, I can tell when the dispatcher uses instant transmit instead of patch transmit, because you can't hear them on one side of the patch (you only hear them on the side they're using the instant transmit for). I've tried to persuade our dispatchers to use the patch transmit button (in the patch box) when they've set up a patch, but they tend not to listen. To me, it would be proper for the console to automatically treat Instant Transmit on any patched channel as Patch Transmit for that channel, but apparently it hasn't occurred to M, or else they have reasons not to.

2. Most of the time when we're patching channels together in our setup, it's to link a trunk talkgroup to a specific VHF frequency, to allow our fire crews to talk to the air ambulance. That goes pretty smoothly, so long as you remind the fire crews 17 or 18 times that they have to wait for both the talk permit tones and give it an extra second or two for the VHF channel to open. Anyway... the second most often use of patching is to link two conventional frequencies together, to allow two fire departments or other such groups to talk to one another. That's almost impossible with this setup because of the repeater tail on most of our channels. Someone will talk on one channel, and it's transmitted on the patch(ed) channel. Then, the patched channel's repeater tail trips the patch, and it's sent across the original channel. That of course opens up the repeater on the original channel to send that little burst of open-key, so the original channel's repeater tail is transmitted back to the patched channel, which broadcasts it... etc. I was on a fire once where patching was tried and it went on like this, the two channels "dueling" with one another, for about 20 minutes before someone decided to drop the patch..

[nmfire10]

I can see allowing instant TX per channel if you have a message specific to the people on that channel. If you want to make it always talk on the patch group with the General TX button, just make a multi-select that is the same as the patch group and use that.

[Alan]

Patches
Before friday, I had never had a need to setup a console patch. Well, we tried it on Friday evening to allow some UHF backup radios to communicate with the VHF Parking Office radios. It "worked" but there seems to be a HORRIBLE VOX type delay in keying up. I would think with all this technology, the console would key the patch upon recieving carrier rather than waiting for audio and relying on VOX. This delay made the patch totally useless. Is there a better way to patch two conventional resources together with the console (not hardwire)??

The console can only use the information that it has to operate the patch.
What I mean by that is that is all you are giving the console is voice (standard 2-wire or 4-wire audio) then the console uses line activity (voice) to key the other channel.
It is much better if you use a COR (carrier operated relay) from each radio to tell the console that the channel is active, This way you have imediate key-up.
Works much better than standard line audio activity.
It is not a short comming of the console. It is the same with Zetron and others.