hi all
well this is my first post and boy have i chewed off more than i can chew!!!
my location is in perth,western australia and we dont have much in the way off motorola surport here anymore....
i have been given 3 off the above repeaters and i would like to recommision them but for the lack off a better word i;m stuffed if i know what i'm doing
tried to get a manual from melbourne and the responce was get lost!!!
not a government department and since you dont have a buget off $100.000 a year to spend with us...........
you sould get the picture....
what i need to know ist the following
how do i make the diplexer harness for the filter?
is it a strait t piece and coax or more involded
what the hell is part number TLN3114A2900V ?
ther radios have phone connectors on them.....whats the use for the...dc wire control or ptsn network?
thats just the start
anyways thanks for reading and this forum is well setup
regards
mitch
perth
help!! id a part from a msf5000(c64cxb7106a)
Moderator: Queue Moderator
I searched in Motorola Online for TLN3114A2900V, and didn't return anything.
TLN3114A returns to a "TTRC MODE", replaced with part number TRN7754A which is no longer available. Has something to do with the Trunked Tone Remote Control module (which doesn't necessarily imply the repeaters are trunked).
As far as the diplexer cable for the unit, are you referring to the "T" cable that connects between the TX post filter output, the receiver, and gives you your antenna connection?
If so, these cables are different depending on whether you are transmitting above your input, or receiving above your transmitter (frequency wise).
I purchased an MSF 5000 station a few months ago that was RX high TX low, opposite of what I needed it to be. An enginner friend of mine and I calculated out the exact frequencies to be used and built a custom cable for it.
It's not that hard to do. What's your frequency configuration?
TLN3114A returns to a "TTRC MODE", replaced with part number TRN7754A which is no longer available. Has something to do with the Trunked Tone Remote Control module (which doesn't necessarily imply the repeaters are trunked).
As far as the diplexer cable for the unit, are you referring to the "T" cable that connects between the TX post filter output, the receiver, and gives you your antenna connection?
If so, these cables are different depending on whether you are transmitting above your input, or receiving above your transmitter (frequency wise).
I purchased an MSF 5000 station a few months ago that was RX high TX low, opposite of what I needed it to be. An enginner friend of mine and I calculated out the exact frequencies to be used and built a custom cable for it.
It's not that hard to do. What's your frequency configuration?
hi there
thanks for the reply
my tx freq is 476.425
my rx freq is 477.175
how it the cable calculated and made?
is the a diagram or picture off it?
regards
mitch
my tx freq is 476.425
my rx freq is 477.175
how it the cable calculated and made?
is the a diagram or picture off it?
regards
mitch
Hi Mitch,
My manual for the MSF 5000 is out in the garage, let me dig it out tomorrow and take a look. I know there is a special colored band that goes around one of the legs of the "T" cable that designates what it's configuration is, and I know there's a special one for 3MHz splits and 5MHz splits, but your split is strange... I've not seen that kind of offset before. I'll look in the book and let you know.
My manual for the MSF 5000 is out in the garage, let me dig it out tomorrow and take a look. I know there is a special colored band that goes around one of the legs of the "T" cable that designates what it's configuration is, and I know there's a special one for 3MHz splits and 5MHz splits, but your split is strange... I've not seen that kind of offset before. I'll look in the book and let you know.
That Tx to Rx spacing is mighty close. I doubt you'll get satisfactory results with the internal duplexer until you get to 5 MHz spacing. I have two of these myself and the duplexer is really just a bandpass filter that tries to remove harmonics and other junk from the transmitter's signal. Most of the isolation is done in the receiver front end. Each section there has about 15dB rejection of the transmit signal on the receive frequency, when they're 5 MHz apart. It'll probably give you very little attenuation when they're just over 700 kHz apart.
Even a commercial pass/reject duplexer would be hard pressed to give you enough isolation under 3 MHz spacing. You might want to consider running two at different locations to get the isolation you'll need to run this as a repeater.
If, however, you just want to run it as a base station and not duplexed, then the spacing is, of course, not an issue. In this case, you'd really want a station with a transmit/receive relay and the coax harness that goes with it, which is NOT frequency-critical. The duplexer would normally be replaced with just a bandpass filter at the output of the power amp, which has a cutoff frequency of around 650 MHz. This feeds the T/R relay which would feed your antenna. The connection from the RF tray exciter output to the PA input is just a double female N adapter - again not at all critical.
A year and a half ago, when I got my first MSF5000, I was able to buy the current installation manual and service manual, such that it is, directly from Motorola in Illinois USA, probably for about $50 each. I do not know if that is an option for you. Occasionally there are old manuals available on eBay - these tend to have complete schematics and much better circuit descriptions than the new one.
Bob M.
Even a commercial pass/reject duplexer would be hard pressed to give you enough isolation under 3 MHz spacing. You might want to consider running two at different locations to get the isolation you'll need to run this as a repeater.
If, however, you just want to run it as a base station and not duplexed, then the spacing is, of course, not an issue. In this case, you'd really want a station with a transmit/receive relay and the coax harness that goes with it, which is NOT frequency-critical. The duplexer would normally be replaced with just a bandpass filter at the output of the power amp, which has a cutoff frequency of around 650 MHz. This feeds the T/R relay which would feed your antenna. The connection from the RF tray exciter output to the PA input is just a double female N adapter - again not at all critical.
A year and a half ago, when I got my first MSF5000, I was able to buy the current installation manual and service manual, such that it is, directly from Motorola in Illinois USA, probably for about $50 each. I do not know if that is an option for you. Occasionally there are old manuals available on eBay - these tend to have complete schematics and much better circuit descriptions than the new one.
Bob M.
My two bits worth:
477.175- 476.425=250,000.
This is considered close spacing.
The MSF internal duplexer by it's very design, intended for multi channel operation is not at all suited for this split. 3MEG is about it.
You will need to use a suitable duplexer, or perhaps seperate antennas with 50' vertical co-linear seperation.
You may also need notch filters, depending on your actual operational measurements on the site. Cut and try.
The low power versions of the MSF has no PA, just the output circulator, harmonic filter, and output power directional coulpler.
The IPA inside the RF casting can do 15W or so.
It is possible to use the output of the RF tray with out the PA connected.
The problem is that the output control will be very erratic, because the control loop has no input.
If you want low power, I would jumper around the PA modules, and change the components in the directional coupler to corespond withthe 6W assembly.
The tune up of the filters in this unit require a special cable, the instructions are very critical if you expect it to work.
Several of us work on these for a living, so ask questions.
The TTRC(Trunked Tone Remote Control) is the module between the SSCB, and the telephone connector.
This is the interface for remote control via leased telephone circuit, or Micro wave, or some other audio path.
DC control is available, as is Tone Remote Control format.
Both 2 and 4 wire audio is supported, as well as full duplex operation.
477.175- 476.425=250,000.
This is considered close spacing.
The MSF internal duplexer by it's very design, intended for multi channel operation is not at all suited for this split. 3MEG is about it.
You will need to use a suitable duplexer, or perhaps seperate antennas with 50' vertical co-linear seperation.
You may also need notch filters, depending on your actual operational measurements on the site. Cut and try.
The low power versions of the MSF has no PA, just the output circulator, harmonic filter, and output power directional coulpler.
The IPA inside the RF casting can do 15W or so.
It is possible to use the output of the RF tray with out the PA connected.
The problem is that the output control will be very erratic, because the control loop has no input.
If you want low power, I would jumper around the PA modules, and change the components in the directional coupler to corespond withthe 6W assembly.
The tune up of the filters in this unit require a special cable, the instructions are very critical if you expect it to work.
Several of us work on these for a living, so ask questions.
The TTRC(Trunked Tone Remote Control) is the module between the SSCB, and the telephone connector.
This is the interface for remote control via leased telephone circuit, or Micro wave, or some other audio path.
DC control is available, as is Tone Remote Control format.
Both 2 and 4 wire audio is supported, as well as full duplex operation.
Aloha, Bernie
My two bits worth:
For some reason or another the US FCC requires 5.0 meg spacing.
Very convient for interference.
9.5 makes more sense, but we don't have such cables in stock because we don't use them.
The interconnect cable (duplex tee) can be made up of cables with N connectors, as was the first production MSF.
Later units had a little metal box with a splice in the center.
In any case the cable needs to be a multiple of 1/2 wave length.
The transmit cable could be 1/2 WL, the receive side several times 1/2 WL.
I don't have the formulas in my head.
You would have to make up a tee, and see how it works.
For this you need the manual, as well as test equipment.
For some reason or another the US FCC requires 5.0 meg spacing.
Very convient for interference.
9.5 makes more sense, but we don't have such cables in stock because we don't use them.
The interconnect cable (duplex tee) can be made up of cables with N connectors, as was the first production MSF.
Later units had a little metal box with a splice in the center.
In any case the cable needs to be a multiple of 1/2 wave length.
The transmit cable could be 1/2 WL, the receive side several times 1/2 WL.
I don't have the formulas in my head.
You would have to make up a tee, and see how it works.
For this you need the manual, as well as test equipment.
Aloha, Bernie
-
Dan562
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:30 pm
- What radios do you own?: Kenwood, Yaesu, ICOM, Motorola
C64RXB7106A MSF5000 Station
Hello Mitch,
From what I read in the Forum thread you have:
C = Compa
6 = 75 Watt
4 = UHF "TV Band (USA)" 470 to 490 MHz Typically a 3 MHz spread Rptr
R
X = 12Kb Securenet Capable 25KHz Channel Spacing
B
7 = Programable CS / PL / DPL
1
0
6 = Tone Remote Control
A = First Version of Base Station
The TLN3114A2900V only is used by manufacturing and warranty personnel so any module that contains this type squence numbering is not important. There is only one exception and this concerning Specialty Products SP numbering which regards to any modification made to the Standard station. The SP numbering will be Ink Stamped onto boards and modules and you would also see it incorporated into a station's Model, example C64RXB7106A-SP04.
I'm thinking the TLN3114A TTRC board has sockets for the ASIC chips and
the TRN7754A TTRC have the ASIC chips soldered directly to the board which lowered the manufacturing cost and made it a little more difficult for the field personnel to swap out chips while troubleshooting the board and station.
I'm a little concerned about down banding your station considering that it's been built in the "T" Band above 470 MHz and you're wanting it to operate in the 450 to 460 MHz range. Many of the parts and assemblies are No Longer Available so you may be searching on Internet websites for the parts you need.
By the sound of your frequency spread 9.5 MHz, you may consider external duplexers or separate TX and RX Antennas for the configuration.
Dan
From what I read in the Forum thread you have:
C = Compa
6 = 75 Watt
4 = UHF "TV Band (USA)" 470 to 490 MHz Typically a 3 MHz spread Rptr
R
X = 12Kb Securenet Capable 25KHz Channel Spacing
B
7 = Programable CS / PL / DPL
1
0
6 = Tone Remote Control
A = First Version of Base Station
The TLN3114A2900V only is used by manufacturing and warranty personnel so any module that contains this type squence numbering is not important. There is only one exception and this concerning Specialty Products SP numbering which regards to any modification made to the Standard station. The SP numbering will be Ink Stamped onto boards and modules and you would also see it incorporated into a station's Model, example C64RXB7106A-SP04.
I'm thinking the TLN3114A TTRC board has sockets for the ASIC chips and
the TRN7754A TTRC have the ASIC chips soldered directly to the board which lowered the manufacturing cost and made it a little more difficult for the field personnel to swap out chips while troubleshooting the board and station.
I'm a little concerned about down banding your station considering that it's been built in the "T" Band above 470 MHz and you're wanting it to operate in the 450 to 460 MHz range. Many of the parts and assemblies are No Longer Available so you may be searching on Internet websites for the parts you need.
By the sound of your frequency spread 9.5 MHz, you may consider external duplexers or separate TX and RX Antennas for the configuration.
Dan