Police Car install question?

Dispatcher85 · Post by **Dispatcher85** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:06 pm

My local police deparment wants to put a repeater in the cruiser to have better rx and tx clairty and better overall range. the radio that they currently have in the car is a cdm1250. What is the best way to go for the install and what parts do I need. Any suggestions?

Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:36 am

That's a pretty borad question. (Kind of like saying I want to put a bigger engine in my car. What do I need?) What freq. band do you want to be in, are you cross banding (one freq. range to another), how many watts are you looking to put out? If you want, you can give me a call at my shop (570-491-4000) anytime and I'll try to help as much as I can.

Chuck

olderookie · Post by **olderookie** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:59 am

vertex is cheaper for a vehicle repeater

pyamid is the better choice but more money

$1200 is the best bid I have found locally vertex repeater w/ pyamid filters hooked to a cdm1250

not tried it yet but soon will

Joe

Gocart878 · Post by **Gocart878** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:12 pm

chuck, have you recieved my past emails regarding the used equipment you were interested in? let me know. thanks
Mike [email protected]

Dispatcher85 · Post by **Dispatcher85** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:27 pm

Yes, I know I am not really good and getting my point across. We are currenlty on Vhf freq. Officer can get out on there mobiles but, not as well on the portables. The place that they are really bad are inside of a residence. Pretty bad huh, when the tower is in sight of the house.

Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:33 am

Sounds like a common problem that was happening around here. Let me ask you, are they using speaker mics? If so, I can almost guarantee that your problem is because of this. Have them take the radio when they are in a bad spot and remove it from thier belt and hold it as if they were using it wothout a speaker mic. If the problem goes away, buy public safety mics with the antennas on the mic head. A hell of a lot cheaper. With the radio sitting so low and against your body, it won't transmit too well.

NodrogCop · Post by **NodrogCop** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:38 pm

In addition to Chuck's great suggestion, you can also get high gain antennas for the radios and try that. I got a high gain VHF for my radio, and it made a big difference. We have a few weak spots in my jurisdiction.

Gordon

olderookie · Post by **olderookie** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:36 pm

that is not always possible to do. Like when some idiot is fighting or you are in a foot pursuit the reason for the mike is more tahn convinence. I can key my mike with my chin if I had to. the radio way is not always the best way in public saftey.

Joe

Dispatcher85 · Post by **Dispatcher85** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:35 pm

Well, they do have speaker mics for the radio but do not use them anymore so that not the problem...but good point. I also suggested the speaker mic with the antenna on the mic head but, I am not really sure if that is going to make a difference. Their mobile radio is a CDM1250, Will a R.I.C.K. work with that radio? If so, what else do I need for the install. If anyone has any other suggestions please feel free.

Anyone know how much one of the other speak mics are?

olderookie · Post by **olderookie** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:10 pm

well if you use a R.I.C.K. you will need a second radio and I am not sure if a rick allows for the 2 way repeating you are wanting a local company is doing the Vertex in band useing the pyamid filters and such. the vertex from what I am told is a good unit for the price. I am going to get a demo unit soon and if it is as the slaesman tells me will be the ansewr to the same problems we have here.

we are on the county dispatch VHF voting recives and I am told one directional transmit ant. so inside almost any building we can't hear anything. we have spots we can't transmit very well either.

keep in mind the 5 watt HT is not as powerful as the 45 to 100 watt car radio with a lesser antenna to boot.

I willl post with our results as soon as I get any.

rangerfourever · Post by **rangerfourever** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:32 am

The officers are in a residence, insight of the tower and still can't talk? Did I read that right? What is the area your system is covering............ Can you hear the transmitter everywhere or are there deadspots on portable RX as well as TX.....

I have used a vehicular repeater system on an 800 EDACS system talking in on VHF HT1000s and Prymid repeaters. Man getting our officers to use the repeaters correctly was a pain! They seemed to have quite a learning curve. I spoke alot with the people at Prymid and had to hand hold officers on the repeaters correct use.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:14 am

Whoa. If you can see the tower from inside a house, you should be able to talk to it (in general, I'm assuming the house doesn't have lead walls). Before you spend $1,000 per cruiser on repeaters, I think someone needs to take a look are some things.

If there is a problem with the equipment at the tower, you will only be masking the problem... and it will probably just get worse anyway. Someone should look at everything from the antenna, down the coax to the wire connecting the radio to the console. If it is as bad as you describe, I bet you will find some antenna/coax/connector/receiver problems. Fix the base, you've fixed your coverage problems without drilling holes.

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:29 pm

I would have to agree with nmfire10 on this one. I have seen a very similar probem once where portables didn't work for anything - even at close range. Their Police chief asked me to look into it. What I found at the tower was an MTR2000 attached to an external duplexer, lightning protection and good line up to the antenna. The install itself looked very good, but the setup in the repeater needed help.

I found that the internal squelch was still set to the FACTORY DEFAULT of 100 out of 128. this made the RX sens extremely poor and the only thing that could get in were strong mobiles. once I reduced that to a usable 25, everything started working great. I dont know what you are using for your repeater, but you should have someone go through that setup with a fine-tooth comb before going after the portables and mobile repeaters.

Good Luck
-WEC

olderookie · Post by **olderookie** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:02 pm

are you on your own system or on a contracted system that will have a lot as to what you have a say in too. Is the system voted or is it simplex or is it a linked repeater system? you need to specify this in order to know what we need to suggest. I am on a simplex voting recive system so the vehicular repeaters make all the sense in the world for me. we need the signal stregth to get into the system or the proximity to the reciver. and if it is not your system without any other complaints you are most likley SOL.

Dispatcher85 · Post by **Dispatcher85** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:45 pm

Your so right basically I am SOL. The system is a voted system with tower site equipment that is probably as old as I am. The only problem is it is contracted out to a communications shop in the local area whos owner is very big in the political game. So unless we go to the county commisioners and complain we are never going to get anywhere. Personally I dont think many of this techs have the slightest clue of what they are doing. I just dont want to see my friends (the officers) get hurt, so this is why I am trying to help them out......

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:00 pm

Did you have a chance to check the sensitivity and desence on the receivers? Do you only have poor coverage in a certain area? Appologies to your age, but if they are as old as you say they are, they may just be due for replacement. Even electronics werent meant to last forever!

-WEC

Dispatcher85 · Post by **Dispatcher85** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:18 pm

Well to be totally honest with you, I am not really sure how old they are. I am just a dispatcher for the 911 center that the tower is attached to. I am not sure if they ever checked the sensitivity. It just really sucks because they were told numerous times about the problem and seems like they just dont care. So, Is a RICK something to look into or no.

olderookie · Post by **olderookie** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:37 pm

my 2 cents

http://www.vertexstandard.com/indexVS.c ... Archived=0

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:51 pm

The sad thing is that they probably never will do anything about it until an officer dies on the side of the road because he could not call for help, or worse yet did'nt hear the suspect had a weapon! I believe what you are saying! Sad thing is that (like me) you are probably on the bottom of the seniority list, and our suggestions get about as far as the trash can!

However, if the radio shop was told about the problem and they don't seem to care, is it possible to get the Police and/or Fire chief involved? Better yet, get a second opinion from another shop? It really ticks me off when it takes an officer hurt on the side of the road BEFORE they even seriosly look into their system!

Finally, to answer your question - From what you described, it seems most likely to me an infrastructure issue. Time to put a little more squeak in the wheel and get someone to really look into that system!

Best of luck!
-WEC

Edit : Fixed dumb spelling error

Dispatcher85 · Post by **Dispatcher85** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:52 pm

Well, fellas I got and update. I went to dispatch one of the local police departments on a cardiac arrrest the other night. Took me 10 minutes until the officer heard me calling. The local vounteer ambulance was slow getting out. Luckily there was a local fire chief that heard the call, went to the scene, and was able to start CPR. Being frustrated, I blew up at our supervisor telling her that we need to do something, because now it just almost cost a life. At this time they got in touch with the communications company, who finally went up, checked out the tower, and fixed the problem. Seems to be somewhat better but, I still think that they are interested in looking into a repeater. Thanks for all of your help.

Corey

Karl NVW · Post by **Karl NVW** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:44 am

Along with all the other good information posted already, let me add one more from experience:

The radio's antenna is NOT the place where you store the coil-cord of the remote speaker-mic.

wa2zdy · Post by **wa2zdy** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:39 am

Karl NVW wrote:Along with all the other good information posted already, let me add one more from experience:

The radio's antenna is NOT the place where you store the coil-cord of the remote speaker-mic.

Oh yeah, I've seen that more than a few times.

Good luck, hopefully you're on the way to having the system squared away.

ESDA20 · Post by **ESDA20** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:44 am

Karl NVW wrote:Along with all the other good information posted already, let me add one more from experience:

The radio's antenna is NOT the place where you store the coil-cord of the remote speaker-mic.

Very true. That's where medical tape, hand cuffs, and car keys are supposed to go!

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:27 am

ESDA20 wrote:
Karl NVW wrote:Along with all the other good information posted already, let me add one more from experience:

The radio's antenna is NOT the place where you store the coil-cord of the remote speaker-mic.
Very true. That's where medical tape, hand cuffs, and car keys are supposed to go!

That's why you use the inflexible high-gain VHF antenna on the top of your XTS. It's stout enough to handle those sorts of loads

My favorite is the speaker mic itself clipped to the antenna - usually the very top of an HT1000 antenna. Makes me want to injure the user.

rangerfourever · Post by **rangerfourever** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:11 pm

OOPS I better take them off my V and U HT1000s.......................No wonder I cant hear dispatch!!!!!!!!!!!