Hi Friends,
I have a incovenient doing LAND to MOVILES Interconnect calls, because when i hang up the call, the repeater is still taken, and the busy tone is listened through the moviles, the only way to finish the call is disabling the repeater through the board of the central controller.
Please people, if youy have some information to avoid that let me know.
Regards,
kIkE!
Information about Smartnet, privacy plus with CIT
Moderator: Queue Moderator
My two bits worth:
Once again XMO has it exactly right.
"calling party supervision"
This is but one of the many supervisory options in the "Ground Start"
system.
Some telephone company engineers are unwilling to study their manuals to understand how to option their switch for ground start.
We usuially order 3 or more ground start lines on rotary.
Once again XMO has it exactly right.
"calling party supervision"
This is but one of the many supervisory options in the "Ground Start"
system.
Some telephone company engineers are unwilling to study their manuals to understand how to option their switch for ground start.
We usuially order 3 or more ground start lines on rotary.
Aloha, Bernie
"...We usually order 3 or more ground start lines on rotary..."
___________________________________________________
Just in case that's confusing to anyone - different telcos use different terminology. Some would call that a 'hunt group', others call it rollover - which I think is the most descriptive term.
The idea is that you have three lines, each of which as a real telephone number, but you only give out the primary number of the group. If the first line is busy when a second caller dials that primary number, the telco switch 'rolls' the call 'over' to the next circuit in the group.
___________________________________________________
Just in case that's confusing to anyone - different telcos use different terminology. Some would call that a 'hunt group', others call it rollover - which I think is the most descriptive term.
The idea is that you have three lines, each of which as a real telephone number, but you only give out the primary number of the group. If the first line is busy when a second caller dials that primary number, the telco switch 'rolls' the call 'over' to the next circuit in the group.
My two bits worth:
The problem with the rotary, or what ever lines is if they are not ground start some one will call the main number by error and get the "beep", hang up and try again. in no time the lines are tied up, awaiting time out.
We had such a problem in Guam years ago because the Teclo said their Northern Telcom switch could not do ground start.
In modifying the system for ground start it is necessary to move a jumper on each of the Pulsecom cards, as well as having the Telco modify their system.
A common problem here is line reversal usuially caused by cable splicers, as well as the circuit misteriously becoming a "loop start", which requires a Tech in Texas to reprogram the Verizion switch here in Honolulu.
The problem with the rotary, or what ever lines is if they are not ground start some one will call the main number by error and get the "beep", hang up and try again. in no time the lines are tied up, awaiting time out.
We had such a problem in Guam years ago because the Teclo said their Northern Telcom switch could not do ground start.
In modifying the system for ground start it is necessary to move a jumper on each of the Pulsecom cards, as well as having the Telco modify their system.
A common problem here is line reversal usuially caused by cable splicers, as well as the circuit misteriously becoming a "loop start", which requires a Tech in Texas to reprogram the Verizion switch here in Honolulu.
Aloha, Bernie
Hello People,
Thanks for helping me, actually i tried to do what xmo said, but really i dont know how to do it.
The lines which are inserted to the CIT come from a PBX Alcatel 4200.
I can make interconnect calls between Mobiles to Land, Land to "Individual" Mobiles without problems, but, when i make inetrconnect calls between Land to a "Group" Mobiles is when the problems appear because, the land part (who made the call) hang up, the repeater is still taken for the interconnect and i have to do what i said in the first message.
Im new in this area, so, that's the reason to search for expert opinion.
Sorry for my english....
Regards,
Thanks for helping me, actually i tried to do what xmo said, but really i dont know how to do it.
The lines which are inserted to the CIT come from a PBX Alcatel 4200.
I can make interconnect calls between Mobiles to Land, Land to "Individual" Mobiles without problems, but, when i make inetrconnect calls between Land to a "Group" Mobiles is when the problems appear because, the land part (who made the call) hang up, the repeater is still taken for the interconnect and i have to do what i said in the first message.
Im new in this area, so, that's the reason to search for expert opinion.
Sorry for my english....
Regards,
-
alex_davies
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:39 pm
1. Loop start phone lines -These type of lines only disconnect immediately if the originating (landline) party disconnects.
2. Ground start phone lines - The call will end immediately when either party disconnects.
I would suggest, that you ask your telephone maintenace personnel on what type of line you are using. If not ground start, you have to request to provide you the phone line you need.
Alex D.
2. Ground start phone lines - The call will end immediately when either party disconnects.
I would suggest, that you ask your telephone maintenace personnel on what type of line you are using. If not ground start, you have to request to provide you the phone line you need.
Alex D.
My two bits worth:
The "wire line dispatch" feature requires a ground start system to tell the controller that the call has ended.
Otherwise the telephone line, as well as the channel are busy until the telephone line times out.
The manual makes no mention of this interval, or how to set it.
In individual calls the system disconnects when the mobile hits "hang up".
I think the telephone line would hang up if one of the mobiles hit " hang up" button.
I do not know if your PBX can do "Ground Start" or not.
Many can.
If your system is to be modified for ground start, there is a jumper change on the Pulse Com board, one for each channel.
The polarity of the telephone circuit is also very important.
Operation of the Ground Start line:
Incoming call: Monitor the line with a DC, and AC volt meter.
Meter will be close to 0 V DC.
+48 (or 24) VDC followed by 110VAC ring.
The +48 V is used to warn the controller that a call is to be received shortly DO NOT dial out on this line (Anti Glare)
The ring voltage fires an opto-isolator indicating ring.
The controller siezes the line by providing a path for "loop" current.
The call procedes.
When the calling party hangs up, the line polarity reverse indicating
end of call, Controller releases line. (Calling party supervision)
The mobile can also end the call, Controller releases line.
Mobile innitiates call:
When interconnect is requested, the controller selects the highest number telephone line, seizes the line, momentairly grounds one side of the line (Wink Start) A dial tone follows, which is verified by the PLIB board.
The dial tone heard on your radio is in fact generated on the PLIB board.
The digits are sent either pulse, or DTMF, then the audio connection is
established.
If the called party hangs up, the line reverses polarity indicating call over,
controller releases line.
The mobile can also end call.
The "wire line dispatch" feature requires a ground start system to tell the controller that the call has ended.
Otherwise the telephone line, as well as the channel are busy until the telephone line times out.
The manual makes no mention of this interval, or how to set it.
In individual calls the system disconnects when the mobile hits "hang up".
I think the telephone line would hang up if one of the mobiles hit " hang up" button.
I do not know if your PBX can do "Ground Start" or not.
Many can.
If your system is to be modified for ground start, there is a jumper change on the Pulse Com board, one for each channel.
The polarity of the telephone circuit is also very important.
Operation of the Ground Start line:
Incoming call: Monitor the line with a DC, and AC volt meter.
Meter will be close to 0 V DC.
+48 (or 24) VDC followed by 110VAC ring.
The +48 V is used to warn the controller that a call is to be received shortly DO NOT dial out on this line (Anti Glare)
The ring voltage fires an opto-isolator indicating ring.
The controller siezes the line by providing a path for "loop" current.
The call procedes.
When the calling party hangs up, the line polarity reverse indicating
end of call, Controller releases line. (Calling party supervision)
The mobile can also end the call, Controller releases line.
Mobile innitiates call:
When interconnect is requested, the controller selects the highest number telephone line, seizes the line, momentairly grounds one side of the line (Wink Start) A dial tone follows, which is verified by the PLIB board.
The dial tone heard on your radio is in fact generated on the PLIB board.
The digits are sent either pulse, or DTMF, then the audio connection is
established.
If the called party hangs up, the line reverses polarity indicating call over,
controller releases line.
The mobile can also end call.
Aloha, Bernie
Is it just me, or is everyone missing the fact his calls work normally with no issues except for when it's a 'talkgroup' call? Land or Mobile originated 'individual' calls hang up fine. If this is the case, it doesn't seem like a loopstart vs. groundstart problem.
Todd
Todd
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
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Welcome to the /\/\achine.
The difference between an individual call and a talkgroup call is the reason why it IS a ground start problem.
When the call is to an individual unit it comes into that unit as a PHONE call. When the call is concluded - the individual 'releases' the call and the system knows to drop the phone line.
On a talkgroup call - there is no 'connection' in the sense of a phone call- the land line caller simply 'joins' the talkgroup. There is no way for the system to know who might talk to who and when someone wants to end that landline connection - unless you have supervised landlines - i.e. groundstart.
The landline to talkgroup call capability should NEVER be enabled or attempted to be used on one of these systems unless ground start lines are employed.
Now - for a little more telco 101 to follow on the points posted by alex_davies.
When he says that loop start lines disconnect immediately when the calling party disconnects - that is true from the Central Office perspective. However, the called party device gets only an audible indication of this disconnect - first dialtone, then that times out and you get - "please hang up..."
There is no electrical indication to the called party - that's why answering machines have dial tone detectors and VOX and timers or they would stay on the line forever - just like to poor SMR - which has no way to know that a landline to talkgroup call has ended.
When the call is to an individual unit it comes into that unit as a PHONE call. When the call is concluded - the individual 'releases' the call and the system knows to drop the phone line.
On a talkgroup call - there is no 'connection' in the sense of a phone call- the land line caller simply 'joins' the talkgroup. There is no way for the system to know who might talk to who and when someone wants to end that landline connection - unless you have supervised landlines - i.e. groundstart.
The landline to talkgroup call capability should NEVER be enabled or attempted to be used on one of these systems unless ground start lines are employed.
Now - for a little more telco 101 to follow on the points posted by alex_davies.
When he says that loop start lines disconnect immediately when the calling party disconnects - that is true from the Central Office perspective. However, the called party device gets only an audible indication of this disconnect - first dialtone, then that times out and you get - "please hang up..."
There is no electrical indication to the called party - that's why answering machines have dial tone detectors and VOX and timers or they would stay on the line forever - just like to poor SMR - which has no way to know that a landline to talkgroup call has ended.
I would start by calling your phone system vendor, as well as the telephone company that you use to get them involved in figuring out how to do this.kike wrote:Hello people,
I've searched about ground start line in the pbx, but it dosent have this option. So, how can i get this type of signaling to do the hang up??? or i need another pbx???
thanks!!!
They would be your best resources than simply asking here. We can say - hey you probably need this line, but we don't know the particulars on your system, and for that matter, don't really need to know. Speak with your vendors who provide the PBX and Service, and I think the'll be able to really help you in the right direction. From the information above, you should know what type of line to ask for.
-Alex
Ah, I see! Excellent info.xmo wrote:The difference between an individual call and a talkgroup call is the reason why it IS a ground start problem...etc, etc.
Todd
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
Welcome to the /\/\achine.
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-
spareparts
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:33 pm
Ummm. ... That's not exactly true. Depending on the platform in the serving CO (and the software generic), a line can be made to "wink" or go DC open for about 100ms. A 5ESS CO and a DMS100 both do this. It's main use was to tell a 1A2 key system (or Merlin in later years) the the calling party has hung up. To the consumer, it was called CPC or calling party control.xmo wrote:There is no electrical indication to the called party - that's why answering machines have dial tone detectors and VOX and timers or they would stay on the line forever - just like to poor SMR - which has no way to know that a landline to talkgroup call has ended.
Note that a SLC or remote does not do this by default & must be optioned correctly (stops people from using residence lines for business phoe systems, or so the logic went)
The real quesiton is can an Alcatel 4200 PBX provide the correct emulation on it's station ports.
Martin
What really matters is how the Motorola equipment operates. The Motorola CIT [or even a Motorola MBX] is designed to use ground start lines [USOC CDH] if calling party answer supervision is desired.
The CIT employs Pulsecom registered couplers. In the Pulsecom System Practices IN#835, it states under 8.04.6 Call Termination Through CO: "If the call is terminated through the CO, the status of the interface leads remains unchanged and the transmission path in the Coupler remains cut through for normal application of CED, C2ACP and C2AKS. [loop start arrangements] However, the CDH connecting arrangement does provide call termination information..." [to the CPE - i.e. the PLIB in the CIT]
Also in the MBX documentation 6881085E60, it states in the section "Ground Start Lines" that: "Thus, unlike loopstart lines, a positive indication is given to the MBX that the landline party has hung up."
The CIT employs Pulsecom registered couplers. In the Pulsecom System Practices IN#835, it states under 8.04.6 Call Termination Through CO: "If the call is terminated through the CO, the status of the interface leads remains unchanged and the transmission path in the Coupler remains cut through for normal application of CED, C2ACP and C2AKS. [loop start arrangements] However, the CDH connecting arrangement does provide call termination information..." [to the CPE - i.e. the PLIB in the CIT]
Also in the MBX documentation 6881085E60, it states in the section "Ground Start Lines" that: "Thus, unlike loopstart lines, a positive indication is given to the MBX that the landline party has hung up."