First time tower site lease
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First time tower site lease
I am interested in putting up a tower for a personal/business radio system. I have located a site that fits the location & height criteria. It has an existing unsound tower owned by the business currently on the property.
Here's what myself & the business / property owner were kicking around: I remove the existing tower for him & install my shelter and tower. I provide him with space on the tower at the same height as his previous install. (he pays for new antenna & hard line, I pay rigger, & crane.)
I retain all rights to additional space on the tower for potential PS use, other business or amateur users, as well as determination of harmful interference issues.
Power is sub metered from his building, with emergency access if needed. I'm not too keen on this, but there's a fuel oil tank directly in the trench path to the pole for commercial power. Telco circuits enter from opposite direction from railroad ROW
We enter into 20 flat rate year lease on the portion of his land occupied by: the tower, shelter & 2 parking spaces (trailer mounted generator & tow vehicle). I was looking at http://www.techagreements.com/T-Tower-S ... ements.asp for examples for my attorney.
Local AJH for taxes is agreeable to consider site improvements separately. I will pay for tax increase (if any) for tower/site portion of property.
What am I missing here ?
Martin
Here's what myself & the business / property owner were kicking around: I remove the existing tower for him & install my shelter and tower. I provide him with space on the tower at the same height as his previous install. (he pays for new antenna & hard line, I pay rigger, & crane.)
I retain all rights to additional space on the tower for potential PS use, other business or amateur users, as well as determination of harmful interference issues.
Power is sub metered from his building, with emergency access if needed. I'm not too keen on this, but there's a fuel oil tank directly in the trench path to the pole for commercial power. Telco circuits enter from opposite direction from railroad ROW
We enter into 20 flat rate year lease on the portion of his land occupied by: the tower, shelter & 2 parking spaces (trailer mounted generator & tow vehicle). I was looking at http://www.techagreements.com/T-Tower-S ... ements.asp for examples for my attorney.
Local AJH for taxes is agreeable to consider site improvements separately. I will pay for tax increase (if any) for tower/site portion of property.
What am I missing here ?
Martin
Besides some technical issues like having a proper ground system, what about security? Alarm system on the shack? Fencing around the base of the tower to keep the kids off of it? I realize these aren't part of setting up the contract, but you'll need to consider them eventually. As someone already pointed out, insurance for the equipment is needed. Will you require any of your tenants to have liability insurance if their antenna falls off the tower and breaks someone else's? What if their equipment explodes and damages other radios? Air conditioning? Door locks? Will any of your tenants have access as well?
I'm just throwing things out here based on my site experiences.
Bob M.
I'm just throwing things out here based on my site experiences.
Bob M.
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Actually I have - Right now I'm waiting on quotes (one of which is the insurer of the existing tower)Al wrote:Have you considered the issue of liability if his agent falls or is injured climbing *your* tower. If not, now is the time to fix liability to protect yourself.
I'm going with the R56 site standards across the board. Might be overkill, but better to err on the side of caution. Air conditioning I have 2 units N+1, Equipment power is all DC, with enough battery for full equipment load for 8 hours, N+1 rectifiers.kcbooboo wrote:Besides some technical issues like having a proper ground system, what about security? Alarm system on the shack? Fencing around the base of the tower to keep the kids off of it? I realize these aren't part of setting up the contract, but you'll need to consider them eventually. As someone already pointed out, insurance for the equipment is needed. Will you require any of your tenants to have liability insurance if their antenna falls off the tower and breaks someone else's? What if their equipment explodes and damages other radios? Air conditioning? Door locks? Will any of your tenants have access as well?
Right now, It's all one space - any "tennants" in the first shelter will share access.
My first shelter is a 20' connex box cut down to 16' .KS4VT wrote:Considering your looking for a PS agency to lease space, we typicially like to bring our own shelters along or have an ability to be partioned off by drywall & door or a chainlink fence.
How much actual property is around the tower or how big is the shelter and can you do some pre-planning?
The area I am attempting to lease is ~37' wide & ~90' deep. Once the original tower comes down, there would be room for a second 20' long shelter.
The tower and shelter area will be protected by an 8' fence with deterent wire. Anything not paved will be gravel surface (so the grounding system stays wet)
Martin
If your going to put down the gravel, you might want to look at using 610 road base gravel. This has a mix of fine up through about 3/4 stone in it. It is excellent for an area around where your going to drive on. After a couple of months, it sets up almost like concrete. Still gives the stone top finish but is very stable.
The cellular companies that have a good civil engineer have gone to this for all their yard area inside the fence and driveways. The others are just plain stupid and dump 6 inches of stone on the yard that you can't drive on to save your life. Guess they like to spend extra money for the construction and also pay for tow trucks.
Jim
The cellular companies that have a good civil engineer have gone to this for all their yard area inside the fence and driveways. The others are just plain stupid and dump 6 inches of stone on the yard that you can't drive on to save your life. Guess they like to spend extra money for the construction and also pay for tow trucks.
Jim
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Update:
Spent most of the morning at the proposed site with a surveyor. Had a chance to examine the existing tower while setting irons. No ASR plates or stencil. OK, old tower, might have faded.
Came home & checked the on-line ASR database. Not Listed.
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp
Things just got expensive.
Martin
Came home & checked the on-line ASR database. Not Listed.
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp
Things just got expensive.
Martin
Re: Update:
How tall above the ground is the tower? Unless it is 200 feet or taller, it probably doesn't need to be registered unless it is near an airport or helo pad.
Jim
[quote="spareparts"]Spent most of the morning at the proposed site with a surveyor. Had a chance to examine the existing tower while setting irons. No ASR plates or stencil. OK, old tower, might have faded.
Came home & checked the on-line ASR database. Not Listed.
[url]http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp[/url]
Things just got expensive.
Martin[/quote]
Jim
[quote="spareparts"]Spent most of the morning at the proposed site with a surveyor. Had a chance to examine the existing tower while setting irons. No ASR plates or stencil. OK, old tower, might have faded.
Came home & checked the on-line ASR database. Not Listed.
[url]http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp[/url]
Things just got expensive.
Martin[/quote]
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Re: Update:
Jim,Jim202 wrote:How tall above the ground is the tower? Unless it is 200 feet or taller, it probably doesn't need to be registered unless it is near an airport or helo pad.
Per the surveyor, the tip of the existing stationmaster is 116' above ground. Straightline to the furthest point of the local FBO, just over 1 mile. I should have verified numbers within a week.
Martin
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Update #2
Using the certified data from the Surveror for the location (GPS-HI) and the published location for the Airport/FBO, the TOWAIR system says ASR needed. Repeting with the data for the existing tower, ASR needed.
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp
Sanity Check - Is the ASR registration something a reasonable person can do, or is it brain surgery best left to a pro?
Martin
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp
Sanity Check - Is the ASR registration something a reasonable person can do, or is it brain surgery best left to a pro?
Martin
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Re: Update:
With these numbers it won't have an ASR assigned to it. You haven't said anything about lighting so it's a safe bet it's not in the flight path.spareparts wrote:Jim,Jim202 wrote:How tall above the ground is the tower? Unless it is 200 feet or taller, it probably doesn't need to be registered unless it is near an airport or helo pad.
Per the surveyor, the tip of the existing stationmaster is 116' above ground. Straightline to the furthest point of the local FBO, just over 1 mile. I should have verified numbers within a week.
Martin
Now depending on how tall you looking to build this new tower, I would reccomend no higher than 199' to the tip of any of the antennas. Once you get past 200' you have to light the tower, monitor the lighting system 24/7/365, and repair it ASAP if it should malfunction which means calling in a tower crew..
Getting an ASR is pretty complicated but if I remember correctly doesn't cost anything as long as your willing to put the time into satisfying the FAA's criteria. Here is the contact # for the FAA on Radio Tower construction:
http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/dfw/faq.htmRADIO TOWERS
31. Where do I obtain technical advice concerning proposed radio tower construction, radio tower warning lights and other data on airspace obstructions?
Contact the Air Traffic Division at (310) 725-6557 or 725-6559.
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Re: Update:
Mark,KS4VT wrote:Now depending on how tall you looking to build this new tower, I would reccomend no higher than 199' to the tip of any of the antennas. Once you get past 200' you have to light the tower, monitor the lighting system 24/7/365, and repair it ASAP if it should malfunction which means calling in a tower crew..
Getting an ASR is pretty complicated but if I remember correctly doesn't cost anything as long as your willing to put the time into satisfying the FAA's criteria. Here is the contact # for the FAA on Radio Tower construction:
http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/dfw/faq.htmRADIO TOWERS
31. Where do I obtain technical advice concerning proposed radio tower construction, radio tower warning lights and other data on airspace obstructions?
Contact the Air Traffic Division at (310) 725-6557 or 725-6559.
Thanks! That's exactly what I needed. BTW, proposed hight is 120' HAT.
Martin
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They found me already!
As a side note, I received a cold phone call from a local Amateur asking for permission to "use" the tower for a repeater. (damn land is not under lease yet!!) He promptly launched into the "ham radio is going to save the world" speech. Out of morbid cursory, I asked him to describe his radio equipment: Two Syntors, a mobile duplexer, a Comet antenna, and Astron switching PS.
I asked him about a circulator, or if he had real cavities to use (not the little Cellwave mobile unit). He really flipped out when I told him "on the off chance we can work out the potential equipment & interference issues, you will need to have a professional rigger install the antenna, hardline, and grounding kits"
One would hope when someone approaches a business requesting something for free, they would know how to make an appointment & be receptive to the terms & conditions.
Martin
I asked him about a circulator, or if he had real cavities to use (not the little Cellwave mobile unit). He really flipped out when I told him "on the off chance we can work out the potential equipment & interference issues, you will need to have a professional rigger install the antenna, hardline, and grounding kits"
One would hope when someone approaches a business requesting something for free, they would know how to make an appointment & be receptive to the terms & conditions.
Martin
Re: Update:
Pay close attention to the airport elevation and the tower elevation. If you read the documentation you will find some wording in there about for every 100 feet away from the airport at the elevation of the airport, you can go up only 1 foot. Been along time since I read that, but I think those are the numbers.
If you happen to be unlucky and your on a high hill right in the flight path, you might only be able to go no higher than the tops of the trees. There is also some wording in there about your proposed tower being shadowed by other obstructions.
It will take you some time working with the FAA to work out the details. They are not a bad bunch of people to work with, but as with any Federal agency, they work at their own pace.
If you happen to be off the flight path, you should have no problem getting tower height approved. Just remember, don't cause a commotion with the FAA people you may talk with. They can help you or you can wait forever to receive their blessings for your tower.
As for lighting it, I have see the requirement for a 100 foot tower to be lit. All depends where the tower is located in relation to the local airport flight patterns. Each airport is slightly different.
Jim
http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/dfw/faq.htm[/quote]
Mark,
Thanks! That's exactly what I needed. BTW, proposed hight is 120' HAT.
Martin[/quote]
If you happen to be unlucky and your on a high hill right in the flight path, you might only be able to go no higher than the tops of the trees. There is also some wording in there about your proposed tower being shadowed by other obstructions.
It will take you some time working with the FAA to work out the details. They are not a bad bunch of people to work with, but as with any Federal agency, they work at their own pace.
If you happen to be off the flight path, you should have no problem getting tower height approved. Just remember, don't cause a commotion with the FAA people you may talk with. They can help you or you can wait forever to receive their blessings for your tower.
As for lighting it, I have see the requirement for a 100 foot tower to be lit. All depends where the tower is located in relation to the local airport flight patterns. Each airport is slightly different.
Jim
http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/dfw/faq.htm[/quote]
Mark,
Thanks! That's exactly what I needed. BTW, proposed hight is 120' HAT.
Martin[/quote]
Re: They found me already!
The Syntors are ok, but the Comet antenna, the mobile duplexer, and the switching power supply wouldn't be acceptable by this Ham in that environment to begin with!spareparts wrote:As a side note, I received a cold phone call from a local Amateur asking for permission to "use" the tower for a repeater. (damn land is not under lease yet!!) He promptly launched into the "ham radio is going to save the world" speech. Out of morbid cursory, I asked him to describe his radio equipment: Two Syntors, a mobile duplexer, a Comet antenna, and Astron switching PS.
I asked him about a circulator, or if he had real cavities to use (not the little Cellwave mobile unit). He really flipped out when I told him "on the off chance we can work out the potential equipment & interference issues, you will need to have a professional rigger install the antenna, hardline, and grounding kits"
One would hope when someone approaches a business requesting something for free, they would know how to make an appointment & be receptive to the terms & conditions.
Martin
Not only is there the fear or interferring with other equipment on site, but receiving interference from others on site!
I was on site for an install of a repeater made from a pair of Syntor X's a while back, but they were using a TX/RX duplexer that was factory tuned and a high quality antenna made for repeater service. Along with a Linear Astron with Battery Backup built in and a couple large capacity Gel Cell's for backup. Works great.
However, i will agree, that some hams think they can use the cheapest method possible, and in a situation where they owned the tower or the location didn't have any critical equipment, such as PS use, it's not a problem as long as they fully understand and are capable of handling any interference issues that pop up. But in my opinion, when there is equipment on site for PS use that means ones safety or life on the line things get serious really fast!
I hear you though, some hams go the high and mighty route to get something for free. I would have offered to at least pay a monthly charge for power. I know a couple locations that have some of the repeaters around here on the ham bands have insurance restrictions on who gets to climb the tower, but luckily the companies that handle that part of the work around here are helpful towards hams.
As far as saving the world, well, i don't think you would ever hear me proclaiming that! Helping in times of emergency, and helping with public events, and other situations where extra coms are needed, sure, but saving the world? We might help the people saving it with passing info or coms, but i know i ain't going to be able to do the actual "saving", i leave that up to the appropriate PS agencies and just help where i can.
Duct tape is like the force, it has a dark side and a light side and it holds the universe together.
"I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own!" - Adam Savage
"I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own!" - Adam Savage
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Re: Update:
Jim,Jim202 wrote:Pay close attention to the airport elevation and the tower elevation. If you read the documentation you will find some wording in there about for every 100 feet away from the airport at the elevation of the airport, you can go up only 1 foot. Been along time since I read that, but I think those are the numbers.
<snip>
Just remember, don't cause a commotion with the FAA people you may talk with. They can help you or you can wait forever to receive their blessings for your tower.
Thanks for the sage advise - I understand most of the engineering issues, but the regulatory aspect I know nearly nothing about. The good folks here on the BatBoard have been a great help in both areas.
Martin
Re: Update:
The FCC "TOWAIR" web page will help you determine if FAA notice is required:Jim202 wrote:Pay close attention to the airport elevation and the tower elevation. If you read the documentation you will find some wording in there about for every 100 feet away from the airport at the elevation of the airport, you can go up only 1 foot. Been along time since I read that, but I think those are the numbers.
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp
Don't assume you do not need to check this because you don't think you are near an airport.
If you are within 5 miles of an airport, this can be a problem. I once had the FCC return an application for FAA ASR clearance for an antenna on a 40 foot pole because of a little grass strip airport 4 miles away.
Another topic that I have not seen mentioned is the huge expense and hassle of local zoning/building permits. Maybe other areas are not as bad as NY State but here the legal fees for this (envioronmental impact studies, expert testimony about electromagnetic field levels etc..) can be a significant part of the cost of the tower.
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Re: Update:
Already did that, TOWAIR say I need an ASR. I have no issue with this, as even if I don't lease the site, the current tower still needs an ASR (see up thread)k2hz wrote: The FCC "TOWAIR" web page will help you determine if FAA notice is required: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSear ... Search.jsp
This is actually "replacement in kind" as there an existing tower. The area is zoned industrial, and per a casual conversation with the AHJ, he sees no problem with replacement of an unsound tower with a new Rohn (Radian) SSV tower meeting current code.k2hz wrote: Another topic that I have not seen mentioned is the huge expense and hassle of local zoning/building permits. Maybe other areas are not as bad as NY State but here the legal fees for this (envioronmental impact studies, expert testimony about electromagnetic field levels etc..) can be a significant part of the cost of the tower.
Martin
One edit to fix typo
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Update #2
The site drawings are done (all 16 "D" sized pages) & were submitted for approval. Much to his credit, the AHJ mentioned that complex grounding systems were not his area of expertise and would accept the method detailed in R56 as adequate. (less then 1.13 Ohm calculated ground resistance)
The lease agreement was signed - one notable item inserted by my attorney was an "escape clause" in the event that project runs into an unsurmountable regulatory issue (like failure of the FAA to issue an ASN in a timely fashion).
On a positive note, I was approached by another Amateur yesterday. He called, asked permission to overnight an information package requesting tower space. 20 odd pages of information arrived this AM. Equipment list, rack space needed, BTU load, and DC power requirements. No repeater callsign,or trustee callsign though.
Side Question: Has anyone on the list installed a Knox box / for FD & Police access on a shelter? If so, did you opt for the Knox Padlock on the perimeter fence gates?
Martin
The lease agreement was signed - one notable item inserted by my attorney was an "escape clause" in the event that project runs into an unsurmountable regulatory issue (like failure of the FAA to issue an ASN in a timely fashion).
On a positive note, I was approached by another Amateur yesterday. He called, asked permission to overnight an information package requesting tower space. 20 odd pages of information arrived this AM. Equipment list, rack space needed, BTU load, and DC power requirements. No repeater callsign,or trustee callsign though.
Side Question: Has anyone on the list installed a Knox box / for FD & Police access on a shelter? If so, did you opt for the Knox Padlock on the perimeter fence gates?
Martin
Sounds like your new hammy candidate has his :o in order. There may not be a callsign associated because he hasn't coordinated the repeater yet. Hopefully, if you decide to allow him access, his installation is as good as his information packet (I try to keep my hamsexual installs as good if not better than everything else in the building, to show a bit of respect to the site owner who's giving me free access to a fairly rare commodity.)
As far as the security, I know of a few sites with Knox boxes/padlocks. Your choices are a. cut chain or hold in fence along with booted door or b. Knox hardware. Of course, very few sites bother with the Knox stuff...
As far as the security, I know of a few sites with Knox boxes/padlocks. Your choices are a. cut chain or hold in fence along with booted door or b. Knox hardware. Of course, very few sites bother with the Knox stuff...
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The cut chain I could live with, but the FD prying open the door is really going to ruin my day. So I guess it's Choice "B"tvsjr wrote:As far as the security, I know of a few sites with Knox boxes/padlocks. Your choices are a. cut chain or hold in fence along with booted door or b. Knox hardware. Of course, very few sites bother with the Knox stuff...
BTW, The knox box I will be using has a switch that triggers when the door is opened. I was going to wire that to the site alarm panel.
I've also seen a site or two that have had large Halon/Halotron extinguishers mounted inside (usually a couple by the door) with a sign asking any fire personnel to please attempt to control a fire using the extinguishers if at all possible, in hopes that they wouldn't totally drown the equipment. I guess in never hurts to be prepared.
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Re: Update #2
Yes and Yes. Have a Fire Dept. issued lock 3 links down the chain so it doesn't get "locked out of the loop" and the knox box right next to the entry of the Rohn shelter. It's funny that only one municipality required it out of the 6 where I put in new shelters, heck even the unincorporated area (remaining 4 sites) didn't require it either.spareparts wrote: Side Question: Has anyone on the list installed a Knox box / for FD & Police access on a shelter? If so, did you opt for the Knox Padlock on the perimeter fence gates?
Martin
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Update on my Tower project: I spent Saturday running conduit across the building for the power feed to the shelter.
Made the manditory New Jersey One-Call (1-800-272-1000) Monday, started to trench the driveway Sunday AM after the utilities blessing. Wicked bad fuel oil smell as soon as the backhoe opened the blacktop
Turns out the existing tank has been leaking a while. I'm on hold till the EPA certifies the problem remediated. On a positive note, with the tank gone, I can make a straight run for the utility pole & not have to submeter the power.
One edit to fix typo
Made the manditory New Jersey One-Call (1-800-272-1000) Monday, started to trench the driveway Sunday AM after the utilities blessing. Wicked bad fuel oil smell as soon as the backhoe opened the blacktop
Turns out the existing tank has been leaking a while. I'm on hold till the EPA certifies the problem remediated. On a positive note, with the tank gone, I can make a straight run for the utility pole & not have to submeter the power.
One edit to fix typo
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Not a chance. This is a pre-existing condition. The lease agreement specifically disallows responsibility for pre-existing oil contamination.kcbooboo wrote:That leaking tank could be really bad, and expensive, news for someone. I hope you don't have to pay for it and all the surrounding dirt to be safely removed.
As far as removing the soil, that's the propety owners headache. My only concern is the soil removal affecting the tower founditation.
Martin
Don't bet that you won't become part of the legal battle of the
EPA cleanup. After working in the cellualr field for over 14
years, this case would be our worst fears. Typically everyone
at the site gets pulled into the legal issues. We would walk
away from a site that would have a hint of any contaminents.
Sounds like someone didn't do their homework on the legal
past uses and problems at the site.
Thew other issue is the owner of the fuel tank should have
known something was wrong from the amount of fuel being
put into the tank and the run time of the generator. They are
very easy to predict on the amount of fuel being consumed.
A good manager keeps track of how many hours and how
much fuel is being used by the generator.
The fuel company use to be ammazed at just how close I
could come on how much fuel they would have to put into
a tank they were sent to fill.
Jim
[quote="spareparts"][quote="kcbooboo"]That leaking tank could be really bad, and expensive, news for someone. I hope you don't have to pay for it and all the surrounding dirt to be safely removed.[/quote]
Not a chance. This is a pre-existing condition. The lease agreement specifically disallows responsibility for pre-existing oil contamination.
As far as removing the soil, that's the propety owners headache. My only concern is the soil removal affecting the tower founditation.
Martin[/quote]
EPA cleanup. After working in the cellualr field for over 14
years, this case would be our worst fears. Typically everyone
at the site gets pulled into the legal issues. We would walk
away from a site that would have a hint of any contaminents.
Sounds like someone didn't do their homework on the legal
past uses and problems at the site.
Thew other issue is the owner of the fuel tank should have
known something was wrong from the amount of fuel being
put into the tank and the run time of the generator. They are
very easy to predict on the amount of fuel being consumed.
A good manager keeps track of how many hours and how
much fuel is being used by the generator.
The fuel company use to be ammazed at just how close I
could come on how much fuel they would have to put into
a tank they were sent to fill.
Jim
[quote="spareparts"][quote="kcbooboo"]That leaking tank could be really bad, and expensive, news for someone. I hope you don't have to pay for it and all the surrounding dirt to be safely removed.[/quote]
Not a chance. This is a pre-existing condition. The lease agreement specifically disallows responsibility for pre-existing oil contamination.
As far as removing the soil, that's the propety owners headache. My only concern is the soil removal affecting the tower founditation.
Martin[/quote]
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Jim,Jim202 wrote:Don't bet that you won't become part of the legal battle of the EPA cleanup. After working in the cellualr field for over 14 years, this case would be our worst fears. Typically everyone at the site gets pulled into the legal issues. We would walk away from a site that would have a hint of any contaminents. Sounds like someone didn't do their homework on the legal past uses and problems at the site.
This is a pretty straight forward case of a leaking fuel oil tank that feeds a heating boiler on the property. It's a single wall tank that rusted out.
Since I never had any fuel on the property (none of my equipment is even there yet) & responsibility for leakage from existing tanks is excluded in the lease agreement, I don't forsee a problem, other then potentially affecting the founditation of the tower.
Martin
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Jim,
Looking back over the thread, I realized that I never actually descibed the site. The property is rectangular. What I have leased is a ~37 wide slice off the righthand side, facing the property from the street. The leaking tank is (was) under the driveway that divides the leased area from the existing building and balance of the property.
The orignal plan was to obtain power from the owners building by trenching across the driveway at the rear of the property. The tank was located under the driveway at the front of the property.
BTW we did do our homework on leased portion, right down to pulling soil samples on a grid pattern. All historical accounts show the area only used for overflow parking & a vending machine. The area where vending was located was also tested for PCB's.
The property owner has has hired a contractor to remove the contaminated soil. Looks like he or his insurance company is picking up the cost.
Martin
Looking back over the thread, I realized that I never actually descibed the site. The property is rectangular. What I have leased is a ~37 wide slice off the righthand side, facing the property from the street. The leaking tank is (was) under the driveway that divides the leased area from the existing building and balance of the property.
The orignal plan was to obtain power from the owners building by trenching across the driveway at the rear of the property. The tank was located under the driveway at the front of the property.
BTW we did do our homework on leased portion, right down to pulling soil samples on a grid pattern. All historical accounts show the area only used for overflow parking & a vending machine. The area where vending was located was also tested for PCB's.
The property owner has has hired a contractor to remove the contaminated soil. Looks like he or his insurance company is picking up the cost.
Martin
-
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 9:37 am
tower site thoughts
Some random thoughts from a guy with 35 years in the tower business and 45 in ham radio (ouch!) some caveats!
Don't count on rental income from local public safety agencies unless they are really are really amenable to it. The vast majority "ask" for free space on towers within their jurisdiction in "return" for favorable zoning. How can you say "no" to the local VFD when they have a strong voice at a town meeting?... and lets face it, our PD's FD's EMS services are always underfunded. I find it always a better idea to give them free space within reason... unless it is a monster system!
Zoning. Will you have to refile or can the new tower be simply a replacement while the old one is still up? If you put up a higher one (or maybe even larger one) there might be zoning issues. In some areas, taking the old one down requires a permit for a NEW one, where putting the new one next to the old one prior to dismantling is just considered repair.
FAA / FCC Don't ever assume being under 200 feet will keep you free from the FAA /FCC. Heres what WE do on EVERY tower installation (except for the obvious 40 feet of Rohn-25) : We file a FAA form 7460-1 for a "determination of hazard". All it costs is a stamp, a topo map and about a half hour of paperwork. THe FAA most likely will return a DETERMINATION of NON HAZARD, which is your get out of jail (almost) free card if some guy drives his airplane into your tower.
THEN we file an 854 with the FCC to register it (you must attach a copy of the FAA form even though FCC has it already in their joint system) Now you get an ASR. You are covered everywhere. This costs a stamp, and about ten minutes work of high school paperwork. It never hurts to have it registered. Looks good if some NIMBY complains about your tower being in the way of airplanes.
While on Federal issues, you might want to think about a clause in your lease stipulating that each new tenant must provide a loading study to make sure the tower is not overloaded (you would be surprised how FAST a tower can get overloaded), AS WELL as a power density study based on the transmitter/antenna/location you provide. Sooner or later some yahoo in town will claim your tower is making his cats sterile or his pot-head kid a zombie. (love that word: zombie) A power density survey will keep you above the nonsense, AND in the very unlikely event OSHA comes around, they will see you ar serious about safety etc. Your tenants will know you are a serious tower site manager, and haven't just fallen off the proverbial turnip truck. They will treat your better and work with you more. Remember proper signage on the fence.
Future leasing: Assuming your lease provides for YOUR right to lease or sublease to others such as paging, cellular, etc etc, will your proposed tower be substantial enough to handle the FUTURE ANTICIPATED LOAD? Most of the carriers now look for the excuse NOT to rent on a private tower. ("It's too small") They would much rather build their own and rent it to others (simple business math!!) If yours is large enough, they might be more apt to come on board.
What if everything is going fine, and your original business user/partner happens to find a potential new tenant for you? Do you have provisions for a finders fee or even sharing of THAT rental with him? this happens a lot... and the business guy you originally entered into agreement with can be a great seller of site space. You might want to think about some agreement for that.
I would hate to see you build a monster tower and have it empty. On the other hand, I would also hate to see you put up something small like Standard SSV (6N-1W etc) and not have it large enough when, say, Verizon comes along with a proposal for a cellsite and some uWave dishes. ( it happens!) I think this latter scenario hurts even more.
It happened to me... Had up for about a year, a $200K SSV Heavy series when all of a sudden a major CT state agency came along and said they NEEDED to go on site. Well their uWave and 800 trunked system would never fit, so we took down an almost brand new tower and installed a Monster.
You dont even want to think about the ton of paperwork leases etc on this project, fills three file cabinets. It worked out great for me, but I did generate a ton of grey hairs over this project (the hair I had left!) And the lawyer bought a new Hinckley Picnic boat
PREPARE FOR THE FUTURE, but be REALISTIC.
and while on the "future" subject... make sure you have the proper sized electric service... one that will handle future large users. Though they can always upgrade your site, one of the things I find annoying is to have a utility dig up a nice new driveway or parking lot to install an electric upgrade! Then again, back to the old saw, don't over due it... having a bank of 30 empty electric meters is simply spending money that could be used elsewhere Talk to other local site owenrs and research who is on what site and get an idea of who might need yours... then you can talk to the utility guys about service sizing. The utility engineer is invaluable also.
The tenant requireing the upgrade usually pays for it.
This next comment will get flames, so before I mention it... I have been a ham for over 45 years, and to my xyl's chagrin, ham radio has always come first in my life (next to her and the kids) It IS my life.
Would I let any amateur installations go on my tower(s)? ONLY IF AND AFTER all the commercial ($$) users are installed and happy. (Remember, think FUTURE loading). (your financial survival !) You would hate to have a ham installation on the tower and then lose a nice $$ customer because the ham antenna is in the required location. (Also, the top of the tower is not always the best... carriers sometimes need other locations.) We have one super high tech 927/449 ham repeater system on our main tower. It is all installed in excess of commercial (ie /\/\, Verizon etc standards) and cost $K to install. There are circulators, etc that are the envy of the commercial users, and the system fits right in with the public safety systems on site. In fact it the big time users always marvel at what went into it. And the club hase a lease like all the other tenants. ($1 per year) You can require the ham installation (and others if they will sign off) to move their antennas at their own expense if you need the space for a critical new user. (Be reasonable here) This is sometimes a tough sell on a lease, but you have to think of YOUR business first. ... and I won't even comment on the interference issues that can pop up
Allow a mobile and Astron with a Comet on the tower? never, the tower is your income. If you lose customers you lose money, (due to non "commercial spec" installation or equipment), well...you know the progression! Insist on the BEST commercial equipment, antennas and installation...make sure their riggers are insured.
As much as I love ham radio and fellow hams, I find that we as a group, have big mouths! (hey, its radio!) If you have a ham installation there, you must severely restrict and control access. the last thing you need is a bunch of gawkers at the site. (We touch, we poke, we prod, we brag). Make sure the ham club Technical committee is limited to a few and they are sharp, proficient dependable and trustworthy. You don't need some guy who was at the tower to go bragging on the local machine: "I saw the neatest FBI installation at Joes tower the other day". The Feebs might get a "bit" concerned about security especially in post 9-11 New Jersey. It wouldn't be too much to even require the members of the technical committee to get a routine background check from the local PD (like for a school bus license). It would let you sleep well, tell the ham club you are a serious tower owner AND the tenants would know you are serious about THEIR security. (future $$) The technical Committee at our main site is restricted to 4 men who all have State Police level security clearances.
Taxes,(AAAGH!) does the lease stipulate that the tenant will pay his own property tax? If not, check into this. Towns are increasingly hitting the tower owners for tax on all the equipment inside AS WELL AS a tax on the profits. Check with your attorney/accountant on this. The last thing you need is a tax bill for $$$(K) for ALL the equipment as well as profits!
Access: depending on the type of tenants on site, your security/access issues might change. Be prepared to make modifications if/when a new tenant comes on site. For example. you have a bunch of two way commercial users serviced by one or two radio shops. Maybe, padlocks on a chain are ok. the NJSP wants to come up. They might require something a bit more secure with THEIR system in mind. So you make a change ($$). Then a Fed agency comes up, and you change things again! BE FLEXIBLE... prepare for the future! Usually State level security works FB for everyone.
There are a lot of great ways to provide ease of use, access and comfort within the site. Make sure you put a little extra $$ into making the site a welcome place for technicians. If it is CLEAN, well lit, (maybe a little workbench) well organized, easy to work in, comfortable temp), they will enjoy working there AND the best part, they will tell other users that your site is top notch. It's one of the best forms of (free) advertising. Everyone in the business listens to the compliments (and the gripes) of the technicians. If it is a nice site, they will keep it nice. if it is a dump, they will make it a dump!
Insurance, you probably have gone over this a million times with your agent. Think about being covered for loss of income in case the site goes down or even off line. I can guarantee you if (God forbid) the tower fails) the cellular guys will sue the pants off you before the thing hits the ground, citing a "MASSIVE AND SERIOUS loss of service. And they have a lot of hungry lawyers. cover yourself... meet with your insurer & lawyer.
The road/parking lot: who gets the honors to plow it? make sure this is clear, as well as who pays for (future) road/lot repairs. This is basic, but a lot of guys forget to get it clear. You get snow in NJ ? hi hi
Miscellaneous equipment: Like doors, locks, lighting, A/C, the building itself etc... use the best you can possibly afford without going over board.
It pays for itself in the long run. Saving $5 on a run of the mill padlock is not so exciting when it fails in the middle of a sleet storm ot 0400. The buidling code usually is the best guide for the building iteslf.
New Jersey... you are indeed fortunate... some of the BEST tower riggers in the country are in the Northern NJ, Eastern PA area...
I wont get into technical stuff here, as you are probably already aware of grounding/bonding issues, tower footing engineering based on anticipated loading, the steel itself, etc, as well as generators, tanks (another ouch) etc.
Some rambling thoughts, definitely NOT intended to scare you off, not at all. It's just that there are so many little "surprises" that pop up along the way... and I like to help another guy be realistic about the benefits as well as the bulls**t that goes along with getting filthy rich as a tower owner (!!!!!) you meet the greatest people on site, and the business contacts as well as the experience is invaluable. the first tower is the worst. The second one is a lot easier, then after that, they just fall into place (NO PUN INTENDED)
Ask those this board as well as some of the tower site boards... And talk to some of the "Mom and Pop" tower owners in the area. They can help you with all sorts of "locality specific" information on what to watch out for, what to do, who to talk to, who NOT to talk to...and most of all, who will try to screw you! (And there are large carriers who would think nothing of signing up with the intention of putting you out of business). Don't worry about competition to or from the local folks... we are all in the same boat, and must work together, you would be surprised how friendly and helpful most "M & P" tower owners are.
If I had to go into the tower business all over again, knowing about the ups and downs? YOU BET I WOULD... If you love radio (or even just like radio) it can be very rewarding in many ways... but remember to protect yourself and the business and prepare for the future. Of course, I am basically retired now, and just collect the checks (FINALLY !!!!!!!!) lt the kids run it!
always carry a bolt cutter in your truck for the inevitable "lock out" on the fence chain... always show the site to the local patrol officer when he drives by... if he sees HIS departments stuff in there, he will tend to guard it like his own... (I know, I was also a cop for 15 yrs). Despite what I said about the ham radio, it is sometimes nice to be able to give a controlled tour of the site to the local ham club. But check with the public safety folks first about their security concerns, if any. It's amazing how much better a repeater operation is when the users actually realize there is a building that houses all sorts of equipment to make it work, and it actually costs someone to run it!
...and the PRIME DIRECTIVE...
Make sure there is always coffee available !
73,
Mike KM1R
in overtaxed overzoned overpaved Connecticut
Don't count on rental income from local public safety agencies unless they are really are really amenable to it. The vast majority "ask" for free space on towers within their jurisdiction in "return" for favorable zoning. How can you say "no" to the local VFD when they have a strong voice at a town meeting?... and lets face it, our PD's FD's EMS services are always underfunded. I find it always a better idea to give them free space within reason... unless it is a monster system!
Zoning. Will you have to refile or can the new tower be simply a replacement while the old one is still up? If you put up a higher one (or maybe even larger one) there might be zoning issues. In some areas, taking the old one down requires a permit for a NEW one, where putting the new one next to the old one prior to dismantling is just considered repair.
FAA / FCC Don't ever assume being under 200 feet will keep you free from the FAA /FCC. Heres what WE do on EVERY tower installation (except for the obvious 40 feet of Rohn-25) : We file a FAA form 7460-1 for a "determination of hazard". All it costs is a stamp, a topo map and about a half hour of paperwork. THe FAA most likely will return a DETERMINATION of NON HAZARD, which is your get out of jail (almost) free card if some guy drives his airplane into your tower.
THEN we file an 854 with the FCC to register it (you must attach a copy of the FAA form even though FCC has it already in their joint system) Now you get an ASR. You are covered everywhere. This costs a stamp, and about ten minutes work of high school paperwork. It never hurts to have it registered. Looks good if some NIMBY complains about your tower being in the way of airplanes.
While on Federal issues, you might want to think about a clause in your lease stipulating that each new tenant must provide a loading study to make sure the tower is not overloaded (you would be surprised how FAST a tower can get overloaded), AS WELL as a power density study based on the transmitter/antenna/location you provide. Sooner or later some yahoo in town will claim your tower is making his cats sterile or his pot-head kid a zombie. (love that word: zombie) A power density survey will keep you above the nonsense, AND in the very unlikely event OSHA comes around, they will see you ar serious about safety etc. Your tenants will know you are a serious tower site manager, and haven't just fallen off the proverbial turnip truck. They will treat your better and work with you more. Remember proper signage on the fence.
Future leasing: Assuming your lease provides for YOUR right to lease or sublease to others such as paging, cellular, etc etc, will your proposed tower be substantial enough to handle the FUTURE ANTICIPATED LOAD? Most of the carriers now look for the excuse NOT to rent on a private tower. ("It's too small") They would much rather build their own and rent it to others (simple business math!!) If yours is large enough, they might be more apt to come on board.
What if everything is going fine, and your original business user/partner happens to find a potential new tenant for you? Do you have provisions for a finders fee or even sharing of THAT rental with him? this happens a lot... and the business guy you originally entered into agreement with can be a great seller of site space. You might want to think about some agreement for that.
I would hate to see you build a monster tower and have it empty. On the other hand, I would also hate to see you put up something small like Standard SSV (6N-1W etc) and not have it large enough when, say, Verizon comes along with a proposal for a cellsite and some uWave dishes. ( it happens!) I think this latter scenario hurts even more.
It happened to me... Had up for about a year, a $200K SSV Heavy series when all of a sudden a major CT state agency came along and said they NEEDED to go on site. Well their uWave and 800 trunked system would never fit, so we took down an almost brand new tower and installed a Monster.
You dont even want to think about the ton of paperwork leases etc on this project, fills three file cabinets. It worked out great for me, but I did generate a ton of grey hairs over this project (the hair I had left!) And the lawyer bought a new Hinckley Picnic boat
PREPARE FOR THE FUTURE, but be REALISTIC.
and while on the "future" subject... make sure you have the proper sized electric service... one that will handle future large users. Though they can always upgrade your site, one of the things I find annoying is to have a utility dig up a nice new driveway or parking lot to install an electric upgrade! Then again, back to the old saw, don't over due it... having a bank of 30 empty electric meters is simply spending money that could be used elsewhere Talk to other local site owenrs and research who is on what site and get an idea of who might need yours... then you can talk to the utility guys about service sizing. The utility engineer is invaluable also.
The tenant requireing the upgrade usually pays for it.
This next comment will get flames, so before I mention it... I have been a ham for over 45 years, and to my xyl's chagrin, ham radio has always come first in my life (next to her and the kids) It IS my life.
Would I let any amateur installations go on my tower(s)? ONLY IF AND AFTER all the commercial ($$) users are installed and happy. (Remember, think FUTURE loading). (your financial survival !) You would hate to have a ham installation on the tower and then lose a nice $$ customer because the ham antenna is in the required location. (Also, the top of the tower is not always the best... carriers sometimes need other locations.) We have one super high tech 927/449 ham repeater system on our main tower. It is all installed in excess of commercial (ie /\/\, Verizon etc standards) and cost $K to install. There are circulators, etc that are the envy of the commercial users, and the system fits right in with the public safety systems on site. In fact it the big time users always marvel at what went into it. And the club hase a lease like all the other tenants. ($1 per year) You can require the ham installation (and others if they will sign off) to move their antennas at their own expense if you need the space for a critical new user. (Be reasonable here) This is sometimes a tough sell on a lease, but you have to think of YOUR business first. ... and I won't even comment on the interference issues that can pop up
Allow a mobile and Astron with a Comet on the tower? never, the tower is your income. If you lose customers you lose money, (due to non "commercial spec" installation or equipment), well...you know the progression! Insist on the BEST commercial equipment, antennas and installation...make sure their riggers are insured.
As much as I love ham radio and fellow hams, I find that we as a group, have big mouths! (hey, its radio!) If you have a ham installation there, you must severely restrict and control access. the last thing you need is a bunch of gawkers at the site. (We touch, we poke, we prod, we brag). Make sure the ham club Technical committee is limited to a few and they are sharp, proficient dependable and trustworthy. You don't need some guy who was at the tower to go bragging on the local machine: "I saw the neatest FBI installation at Joes tower the other day". The Feebs might get a "bit" concerned about security especially in post 9-11 New Jersey. It wouldn't be too much to even require the members of the technical committee to get a routine background check from the local PD (like for a school bus license). It would let you sleep well, tell the ham club you are a serious tower owner AND the tenants would know you are serious about THEIR security. (future $$) The technical Committee at our main site is restricted to 4 men who all have State Police level security clearances.
Taxes,(AAAGH!) does the lease stipulate that the tenant will pay his own property tax? If not, check into this. Towns are increasingly hitting the tower owners for tax on all the equipment inside AS WELL AS a tax on the profits. Check with your attorney/accountant on this. The last thing you need is a tax bill for $$$(K) for ALL the equipment as well as profits!
Access: depending on the type of tenants on site, your security/access issues might change. Be prepared to make modifications if/when a new tenant comes on site. For example. you have a bunch of two way commercial users serviced by one or two radio shops. Maybe, padlocks on a chain are ok. the NJSP wants to come up. They might require something a bit more secure with THEIR system in mind. So you make a change ($$). Then a Fed agency comes up, and you change things again! BE FLEXIBLE... prepare for the future! Usually State level security works FB for everyone.
There are a lot of great ways to provide ease of use, access and comfort within the site. Make sure you put a little extra $$ into making the site a welcome place for technicians. If it is CLEAN, well lit, (maybe a little workbench) well organized, easy to work in, comfortable temp), they will enjoy working there AND the best part, they will tell other users that your site is top notch. It's one of the best forms of (free) advertising. Everyone in the business listens to the compliments (and the gripes) of the technicians. If it is a nice site, they will keep it nice. if it is a dump, they will make it a dump!
Insurance, you probably have gone over this a million times with your agent. Think about being covered for loss of income in case the site goes down or even off line. I can guarantee you if (God forbid) the tower fails) the cellular guys will sue the pants off you before the thing hits the ground, citing a "MASSIVE AND SERIOUS loss of service. And they have a lot of hungry lawyers. cover yourself... meet with your insurer & lawyer.
The road/parking lot: who gets the honors to plow it? make sure this is clear, as well as who pays for (future) road/lot repairs. This is basic, but a lot of guys forget to get it clear. You get snow in NJ ? hi hi
Miscellaneous equipment: Like doors, locks, lighting, A/C, the building itself etc... use the best you can possibly afford without going over board.
It pays for itself in the long run. Saving $5 on a run of the mill padlock is not so exciting when it fails in the middle of a sleet storm ot 0400. The buidling code usually is the best guide for the building iteslf.
New Jersey... you are indeed fortunate... some of the BEST tower riggers in the country are in the Northern NJ, Eastern PA area...
I wont get into technical stuff here, as you are probably already aware of grounding/bonding issues, tower footing engineering based on anticipated loading, the steel itself, etc, as well as generators, tanks (another ouch) etc.
Some rambling thoughts, definitely NOT intended to scare you off, not at all. It's just that there are so many little "surprises" that pop up along the way... and I like to help another guy be realistic about the benefits as well as the bulls**t that goes along with getting filthy rich as a tower owner (!!!!!) you meet the greatest people on site, and the business contacts as well as the experience is invaluable. the first tower is the worst. The second one is a lot easier, then after that, they just fall into place (NO PUN INTENDED)
Ask those this board as well as some of the tower site boards... And talk to some of the "Mom and Pop" tower owners in the area. They can help you with all sorts of "locality specific" information on what to watch out for, what to do, who to talk to, who NOT to talk to...and most of all, who will try to screw you! (And there are large carriers who would think nothing of signing up with the intention of putting you out of business). Don't worry about competition to or from the local folks... we are all in the same boat, and must work together, you would be surprised how friendly and helpful most "M & P" tower owners are.
If I had to go into the tower business all over again, knowing about the ups and downs? YOU BET I WOULD... If you love radio (or even just like radio) it can be very rewarding in many ways... but remember to protect yourself and the business and prepare for the future. Of course, I am basically retired now, and just collect the checks (FINALLY !!!!!!!!) lt the kids run it!
always carry a bolt cutter in your truck for the inevitable "lock out" on the fence chain... always show the site to the local patrol officer when he drives by... if he sees HIS departments stuff in there, he will tend to guard it like his own... (I know, I was also a cop for 15 yrs). Despite what I said about the ham radio, it is sometimes nice to be able to give a controlled tour of the site to the local ham club. But check with the public safety folks first about their security concerns, if any. It's amazing how much better a repeater operation is when the users actually realize there is a building that houses all sorts of equipment to make it work, and it actually costs someone to run it!
...and the PRIME DIRECTIVE...
Make sure there is always coffee available !
73,
Mike KM1R
in overtaxed overzoned overpaved Connecticut
-
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:33 pm