Need info on MDC-1200 decoding. Have scanner QC2 decoder.

jcpd9720 · Post by **jcpd9720** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:48 am

Here is my question... I can very easily get the tech data on the tones that i would be listening for, will there be input boxes for that, so i wouldn't have to capture the tones and have it figure them out for me? Basically, can the guess-work be taken out of the equasion?

KD4HII · Post by **KD4HII** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:12 am

This sounds great. Please add me to the list.
Thanks

[email protected]

WB2IID · Post by **WB2IID** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:42 am

Mee too!

[email protected]

Joe

radio geek/firefighter/emt/radio geek/engineer/radio geek

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:32 am

I'm shooting for saturday night release of the beta. Here's a bit of video.

http://www.thenorth.com/blogpics/demo1.avi

Asst17-1 · Post by **Asst17-1** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:34 am

What codec did you use for the vid? i don't get any video

can't wait to try this out, hopefully saturday works out for you!

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:39 am

Asst17-1 wrote:What codec did you use for the vid? i don't get any video

can't wait to try this out, hopefully saturday works out for you!

Camtasia is a screen-record utility; and I used their codec. I'll do a better one. I hadn't realized they used their own. So far, all looks on track for saturday night.

Of course, now that I've said that, we'll probably have some kind of structure fire or hazmat incident that takes all day....

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:22 pm

jcpd9720 wrote:
AndrewJayPollack wrote: Not sure if you can tell -- but as geeks go, I'm pretty much off the chart. I know plenty of geeks, I knew very few geek firefighters.
I am just that!!! geek/firefighter/emt/911 operator/all services dispatcher/communications training officer/acting supervisor/aspiring actual supervisor/and going to work on getting my hammy!

Can you please add me to the list of beta testers?!?

[email protected]

Sure.

For those looking, here's video showing me running some tests with heavy background noise (live NOAA Weather) underneat the tones. I'm using some simple tone-generating software to make the tones. You'll see how the tool picks out the frequencies from the noise -- also see how you can adjust the power & time thresholds for signal-to-noise.

Getting very close now.

http://www.thenorth.com/blogpics/demo2.html

* You'll ned Macromedia Flash plug in on your browser (most people have that) to see this.

rkight · Post by **rkight** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:49 am

please add me as well!

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:51 pm

Sorry, just couldn't get it done tonight. Here's screenshots. You'll see that I'm very close.

Screen1 shows the "Discovery" mode:
http://www.thenorth.com/blogpics/scanne ... creen1.jpg

Screen2 shows where you edit your "trap events"
http://www.thenorth.com/blogpics/scanne ... creen2.jpg
(green are enabled, red disabled)

Screen3 shows an event trap in edit mode
http://www.thenorth.com/blogpics/scanne ... creen3.jpg

and Screen4 shows the config area & the log file output
http://www.thenorth.com/blogpics/scanne ... creen4.jpg

RBMTS · Post by **RBMTS** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:57 am

This is fantastic! Great job. Just out of curiosity, can the program send an email for an "action" instead of playing a sound? I was thinking that it would be slick to email some pre-canned message to a different address should it catch the proper tone sequence.

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:03 am

RBMTS wrote:This is fantastic! Great job. Just out of curiosity, can the program send an email for an "action" instead of playing a sound? I was thinking that it would be slick to email some pre-canned message to a different address should it catch the proper tone sequence.

Strictly speaking, there are two answers to your question. Since it can run a program as a response, you could easily have an email sending script or something as that program. That said, I'm more than a little ambivilant about allowing that "run a program" functionality in the free version as it tends to be something I could easily find myself in competition with. Ideally, I'd like to limit the free version to things which have a local impact, like maybe unmuting the sound card (haven't tried that yet) and starting a recording of the traffic.

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:24 am

Yes, it took until today. There are still some weak spots in the user interface but I'll try to get everyone on the list a license key and a download location by the end of the day. Forgive me if it takes me a day or two to get them all out. I've had several dozen requests.

RADIO43 · Post by **RADIO43** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:26 am

Andrew,

Not sure if you got me on the list. Can't wait...

Email- [email protected]

rkight · Post by **rkight** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:54 pm

Forget my email address:

[email protected]

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:33 pm

If you haven't recieved this text in an email from me, it is because I don't have your address. Send me an email with that and I'll add you.

MESSAGE: --------------------------

The Beta 1 is in live use right now on my own system and is working well. I'm moving as fast as I can to prepare a beta test package. The only remaining delay is a bit of software from Microsoft called an "Obfuscator" which allows me to distribute code which can't be easily decompiled. MS is sending this to me asap; though I thought I'd have it already.

Shortly, you'll get an email with a web address to go and enter information and get a license key to go with the software package itself. The beta 1 will be a very limited duration release. It will expire fairly quickly -- probably 14-30 days. I haven't decided. It will be followed up with other betas and a final version.

There will, absolutely, be a free version of this software. I'm not 100% decided on which features it will and won't have yet. The free version will, however, still require registration and a license key which is unique and will allow me to identify any which have been redistributed.

Thank you for your patience -- I'm getting the beta ready asap.

ffexpCP · Post by **ffexpCP** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:29 pm

Can you add me to the list?

petresch @ yahoo.com

thanks

Do-Anything · Post by **Do-Anything** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:38 pm

Can you also add me to the list?

[email protected]

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:55 pm

Its going to be quite a beta group.

Since I'm waiting for that kit from Microsoft (which I'm getting free -- they really want me writing with their tools I think) I spent a good part of today refining and improving. I'm much happier with it now than last night. Particularly in terms of the way trap settings get loaded and saved and edited -- much more reliable and clean now.

Using it in the "real world" connected to the actual scanner and not recordings of scanner has proven interesting. So much of my testing was under 'poor' conditions, that in the real world I've been able to use much higher thresholds. As a result, the capture log is about 99% clean -- that is to say there's almost nothing in it that isn't an actual tone from one department or another.

I have two active "traps" running, one for our department's FIRE and one for RESCUE. So far, I've had 100% hit rates since going live and no errors (incorrect trap activation).

kb3jkp · Post by **kb3jkp** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:43 pm

add me to the list as welll.....

jparks29 @ yahoo . com

jtruland · Post by **jtruland** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:21 pm

I'd like to get in on this also.

jontruland at optonline dot net

Thanks

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:20 pm

The 35 or so of you who sent me emails have been sent registration & download instructions.

Thanks to all for your patience. If you like it, tell everyone. If you hate it, just tell me.

ka6sqg · Post by **ka6sqg** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:23 am

Couple things:

1. Decoding MDC1200 with a sound card is actually easier than doing QCII tones, and I've posted extensive detail as to how it works in another thread here some months ago. I also have C libraries which do it, and a working example on my website, http://www.firescan.net (see the San Mateo County Control 1 channel... it has MDC1200 decoding enabled)

2. How are you doing the QCII decoding? I tried several DSP algorithms, but only a few are really robust for QC-II, and even fewer can also do dual-tone formats like the old QC-I. Again, my website, http://www.firescan.net, shows an example of a system that decodes all the possible quickcall and DTMF tones. I'd be willing to share some hints on how to decode with less CPU and more accuracy.

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:34 am

ka6sqg wrote:Couple things:

1. Decoding MDC1200 with a sound card is actually easier than doing QCII tones, and I've posted extensive detail as to how it works in another thread here some months ago. I also have C libraries which do it, and a working example on my website, http://www.firescan.net (see the San Mateo County Control 1 channel... it has MDC1200 decoding enabled)

I'll take a look at that. I'm assuming you mean its easier because you're looking at the time domain and just watching peaks.

2. How are you doing the QCII decoding? I tried several DSP algorithms, but only a few are really robust for QC-II, and even fewer can also do dual-tone formats like the old QC-I. Again, my website, http://www.firescan.net, shows an example of a system that decodes all the possible quickcall and DTMF tones. I'd be willing to share some hints on how to decode with less CPU and more accuracy.

The beta software is live, has been for a couple of weeks now. I've had maybe 30 people download it, one crash report in a case where bad data was entered into a trap; and otherwise no reported problems.

I don't have the QC2 CAP codes pre-programed, so in this rev you have to enter the frequencies to trap -- but I'm able to reliably trap both QC2 and Touch Tones.

As you seem familliar with issues, I'll explain that I'm using an FFT algorythm that's variable in size and speed; and a blackman type window sync filter is applied twice to handle errors caused by the fact the the signal is not necessarily constant.

I'm seeing +/- range on frequency trapping within 2hz, and the software is smart enough on traps to watch that range.

I had someone suggest I could get greater initial accuracy with a simple peaks/second counter, but that would only work in cases where you had a really pure tone and would not work for dual tone. I'm considering using that information as a modifier however in the trap results if need be.

The key difficulty is the initial tuning of the software to handle the drift and poor quality associated with individual signals, and to set thresholds high enough to avoid false positives from noise, but low enough to hit.

I those who have tried it, find that it works well once dialed in. I've had no reports of performance problems on machines down to around 700mhz P3.

kc2kuy · Post by **kc2kuy** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:20 am

Sir could you PLEASE add me to the list? [email protected]

PNGR1209 · Post by **PNGR1209** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:18 pm

Please add me to your list of Beta testers. Thanks [email protected]

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:33 pm

Please add me also... [email protected]

Thanks!

n9upw · Post by **n9upw** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:19 am

Could you please add me also, this looks so interesting!!!!

[email protected]

Thanks!

libuff · Post by **libuff** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:41 am

me too libuff @ gmail.com

chuckhab · Post by **chuckhab** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:33 pm

me too

[email protected]

jayres · Post by **jayres** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:32 pm

Me too...

[email protected]

Also, if you want another online feed to use to try decoding, the server for ours is http://broadcast.lacledeoem.net One full time PD uses MDC, and radios my agency is distributing to agencies across the county all have MDC enabled...

rdunajewsk · Post by **rdunajewsk** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:24 pm

Is this still available? It would be a great asset for my needs. I'd love to add to the test if it's not officially released yet. If you'd need my email it's rdunajewski at omnichronic dot com. Thanks!

aaknitt · Post by **aaknitt** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:01 am

Wow I wish I would have paid attention to this thread a long time ago...I've been thinking about doing something similar but just using an extra pager instead of doing the tone decoding in software. If this is still an active project please add me to the list. Also, once you have it finalized the forums at http://www.firehouse.com would be a good place to get some publicity for the software.

andyknitt "a-t" gmail "dot" "com"

n1pj · Post by **n1pj** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:07 pm

Can you please add me to the list too.

Thanks

[email protected]

pfd radio · Post by **pfd radio** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:23 am

If you are still looking for beta testers count me in.

[email protected]

Thanks

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:31 am

Its been a long road, but the full product offering is nearing completion. We have a name picked out and registered, and all the parts are now working. Right now we're working on a bit of polish and some fit and finish items and planning a rollout in about 60-90 days to be timed with a Microsoft sponsored case study featuring our own department which is currently the system's only official user.

So, here's an early announcement of "SecondSignal" -- soon to be found at http://www.secondsignal.com. That URL will go live in a few weeks.

The offering has these parts:

1. A pager/text-messaging system where members of a department can manage their own pager numbers, cell phone numbers, email addresses or other text-capable devices. This includes managing what kinds of messages you want to recieve and on what schedule (off-line times, etc). The software also includes a departmental training and duty calendar, a directory which can be used as a centralized email list and contact list, and a document library for things like policies and meeting minutes. Simple forms for maintenance requests and to-do lists may also be included.

2. A dispatch side "quick page" application that offers 3-click notifications for sites which want to notify of emergency response directly rather than by picking out tones. This offers better data for those sites where dispatch agrees to take part. The three click idea is that dispatchers are BUSY when a call comes in and have no time to type messages. With this tool, the first click is to the system try to activate, the second identifies the town or area, and the third the type of call. For example: Click to activate, Click on "my Town - west end", then click on "still box" or "desk box". This gives those who've signed up for the pages much more data than just "firetone" from the scanner monitor.

3. The scanner monitor software many of you have tried -- with just a touch more sophistication. This is used in cases where dispatch isn't involved or can't use the quick page. It sends the notification of the event, but can't tell more data like the town or area other than to the point where the tones are different.

The scanner monitor software alone will also be available for free with the sole function of turning on and off the pc speaker and/or playing a sound file when a call is detected. This makes any scanner into a tone activated scanner.

4. AudioRelay software. This can be used on the same machine as the scanner monitor or another machine. When audio input is detected on the scanner, the software instantly connects to our SecondSignal sever and relays the audio up for distribution and recording. When no audio is detected, the software automatically disconnects. A connection upload speed of about 11kpbs is required -- in theory, a dialup modem will work fine. In practice, any DSL, Cable, or even sat based broadband will be ideal. In many cases, even a cell phone modem card will work just fine and those services can be had at reasonable rates (reasonable only in the sense that if you need this, you're probably so rural that its the only way to connect).

5. AudioMonitor software client. This software runs on the desktop of anyone in the department at their home or office and acts very similar to the way a Motorola Minitor works. It can be set to be silent unless signaled that a tone has gone out, or can be set to always be listening to audio. The feed comes from our central servers at SecondSignal.

6. Dial-In telephone number. Each department will (optionally) get a telephone number which can be used by members who are out of range of the radio dispatch system, but near enough that in a real emergency would be able to respond in time to be helpful. Any real structure fire, hazmat incident, and many extrications or other rescues last long enough that people working up to 30 miles away can still be very helpful. When dialing in, a member will hear all the audio traffic that has happened since the call went out -- WITHOUT DELAY from nobody talking. This is "catch-up" mode and allows an hour long call to be heard in just a few minuts. This 'catch-up' feature lets someone assess the nature of the call and its status to determine their own response. Once caught up to real-time, the caller is put into a listen mode that is monitoring in real time. * The telephone use may be limited to 4 or 5 callers at once, and when called in on a telephone if no active call is in progress there will be an annoying periodic beep sound. This is to discourage "camping" on the phone line. The PC software which listens will not have this annoying periodic sound.

The pricing model isn't final yet, but will be something very close to the following for an average call-volunteer department. Career based departments and larger call departments will be more, but we're not sure how much. Custom features or additional phone lines will also be offered on a paid basis.

Approximate pricing:

a) Personal use of the scanner monitor, capable of turning on or off the pc audio and playing an alert sound when a call comes in. <FREE>

b) Use of the paging system and dispatch side "quick page" software only for an average call-volunteer department: <$50/mo>

c) Use of nearly all features of the system except the dial up telephone number. To listen, you'd need a PC and our software: <$75/mo>

d) Complete use of all features of the system subject to some limits for concurrent telephone line use (probably 4 or 5 people at once max) <$100/mo>.

As I mentioned, SecondSignal will be available to the public soon. Thank you all for your help. I will be considering how to provide a discount or other benefit for members of this site as thanks.

Contact me if you have questions.

FF/EMT/KC2NFB · Post by **FF/EMT/KC2NFB** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:46 am

[email protected]

cant wait to try it.

thanks

MotoMax300 · Post by **MotoMax300** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:46 pm

What Ever Happened To This?! I would Like To Try It.

FF/EMT/KC2NFB · Post by **FF/EMT/KC2NFB** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:51 am

yeh. i posted my email and didint recieve anything.

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:04 pm

Just got the alex notification that there were updates here.

Project Status:

The project has a name now, and it's called "SecondSignal". We are "live" with the first site, at Cumberland Fire Department here in Maine. I received the 2006 "Administrative Service Award" from the department for its creation.

On a thursday morning not long ago, a fire call came in. At 10am with everyone at work, response can be challenging as many of you know. We have five people at the scene who would not otherwise have known about the incident; including a Deputy Chief and a Captain.

The tone recognition software is just a very small part of the overall system, and may still be something I give away free.

Within the next few weeks, the first 10 paid sites will be selected from those who want to participate. I want to start with just ten understanding sites, as I expect there to be a few growing pains initially. Pricing will be 50% for those ten sites for at least 1 full year.

The system allows any registered user to recieve a text notification of incidents in progress on their pager or cell phone. The paging system can also be used by the department for general information. Users can then call in on a telephone number assigned to the department and hear the call as it went out, recorded from the moment of the tone. Since silent periods are not recorded, users quickly "catch up" to the current moment, and are then able to listen to the radio in real time over the their telephone. Touch tone sequence keys allow users to fast forward or rewind while listening, and to select the previous "tone out" or navigate to the next so that users can browse all the calls that have come in over a course of days. The recorded calls are also available for download by web browser.

In addition to the telephone call in system, there is a PC based software client which acts in a manner similar to a "minotor" and can wake up and start playing audio when a tone goes out, or can be left on all the time listening to the live radio traffic from any internet connected PC.

Pricing for the system is not yet set in stone, but it is expected that for the full spectrum of services including a multi-user dedicated telephone number local to the department will cost $200 or less per month, and that limited access for as little as $50 a month will also be available.

As I've said, I have not yet decided exactly how to release the tone-capture software on it's own yet, but am seriously considering making it freely available with some built in advertising for the SecondSignal service offering.

mak777 · Post by **mak777** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:42 pm

can you add me, please
mak777777 -at- aol -dot- com
thanks

bundy125 · Post by **bundy125** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:26 am

if possible could you add me?

[email protected]

Bundy

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:38 am

I'm a bit confused by people posting "could you add me" at this date, on a list in a public forum. In September of 2005 there was a beta test product posted which allowed you to trap qc2 tones from a scanner. That beta is technically still out there, but the process is complete in that the tested did its job. It proved the tool to be installable across a wide range of PC's, and that the tool did work with many different sound cards and scanners.

The next visible step will be released software.

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Hi all --

It's been a long time since I've written, and it's finally time to pass news along. I haven't forgotten you're out there, just haven't had the chance to do anything about it yet.

I sent this in an email to people who downloaded the original tool, because I couldn't find this posting. Now I've found it. Sorry for the dupe.

The tools I was working on have been in test with our department for over a year now, and working very well. As of last Saturday, the new software got a bit of TV News coverage, and that was the straw that pushed me over the line into declaring it official. Since then we have two committed departments already, and expect several dozen more over the next month.

I've decided the scanner monitor itself will be available for free -- but of course limited in some respects. It will be capable of monitoring for many different tones at once for scanner fans, and will be able to turn on the PC speaker or prompt with a pop-up when a tone is received. The software will be freely distributable, and will carry only a banner add for Second Signal -- no other advertising or spyware.

I hope to have this tool out to you guys by the end of January (I hope by Christmas but lets not kid ourselves).

You can find out more about Second Signal, see the news coverage, and read the Microsoft Case Study at the Second Signal website.

http://www.secondsignal.com

Bob KB1MNE · Post by **Bob KB1MNE** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:45 am

AndrewJayPollack wrote:I've decided the scanner monitor itself will be available for free -- but of course limited in some respects. It will be capable of monitoring for many different tones at once for scanner fans, and will be able to turn on the PC speaker or prompt with a pop-up when a tone is received. The software will be freely distributable, and will carry only a banner add for Second Signal -- no other advertising or spyware.

I hope to have this tool out to you guys by the end of January (I hope by Christmas but lets not kid ourselves).

Any news on this actually being released?

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:57 am

I'm pretty sure I posted a rather long comment on the 17th with the information on it being released, no?

aaknitt · Post by **aaknitt** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:48 pm

Heres an idea/feature request...how about a stand-alone program (similar to the scanner buff program) that will listen for the tones, and when they are received, record for a certain amount of time and then send the .wav or .mp3 out to a routing list via email. This could be a reduced-cost version. It doesn't have the benefits of real-time alerting, but still lets people know what's going on. Second Signal infrastructure would not be needed, so it could just be a one-time purchase price. Or you could include that functionality in the free scanner version...that would be even better

Can't wait to try the scanner listener version out!

Andy

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:51 pm

The point of giving away free tools, is that they leverage the service. At what you're suggesting I think it's just too close to the same thing.

Bob KB1MNE · Post by **Bob KB1MNE** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:58 pm

AndrewJayPollack wrote:I'm pretty sure I posted a rather long comment on the 17th with the information on it being released, no?

My bad. I had a brain fart and looked at the wrong date on that post... I thought it was older.

On the bright side though, your email replies have been very helpful and I think our Chief is interested.

AndrewJayPollack · Post by **AndrewJayPollack** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:12 pm

There's plenty of info at the website, and I'm easy to reach by phone.

Right now, I haven't done any advertising or really begin to push the product yet. That will start in January. [/quote]

aaknitt · Post by **aaknitt** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:18 pm

AndrewJayPollack wrote:The point of giving away free tools, is that they leverage the service. At what you're suggesting I think it's just too close to the same thing.

That's fine. I just thought there might be an additional market segment you might be able to tap into...those that aren't willing to pay monthly fees but would be ok with a one-time purchase with reduced functionality. Doing it via email means that the retransmission infrastructure comes from the customer (their SMTP server, etc.), not from you. Adding things like cell phone and text messaging requires your infrastructure and therefore the monthly service. But it's 100% your choice and I'm not going to complain at all...thanks for being willing to release the free version...that will be great by itself!

Andy

P.S. is it still possible to get license files for your beta version to use just for the fun of it or is that no longer an option?

Need info on MDC-1200 decoding. Have scanner QC2 decoder.

Teaser here -- getting very close to release

Some crazy built in codec that came with camtasia

Viewable Demo video online - FLASH format

tester

3am and Its not quite ready. Tomorrow :-) -- Here's screens

Yes and no...

Beta is ready.

Email

BETA Email has been sent with info....

Got those. Up to 30 people now.

The First Beta is released!

An update for those interested

Here's the status on the project --

MDC1200 decoder software

add you to what?

any news?

The problem with that is it tips the balance.

Re: any news?

Always good to hear that!

Re: The problem with that is it tips the balance.